Model Freight Train Operation

[Ray H]

New readers may find it easier to pick things up from post 37.

 

Introduction

 

I am indebted to John Flann’s description of his card based wagon movement scheme on his BLT layout for encouraging me to try to develop a system for moving wagons around my layout.

 

John’s system is based on a card for one wagon or small group of wagons. The cards are selected at random to form a train and are transferred manually between station and fiddle yard when the train runs. The cards also detail whereabouts in the station area the wagon works to/from. It will be noted that John’s wagons only ever move between the fiddle yard and a specific location in the station area.

 

I have failed to find a way to adapt such a system on my present layout - which has three distinct fiddle yard areas and a through junction station with minimal freight facilities where wagons are swapped between trains - unless I limited myself to always running specific wagons between the same two points.

 

Consequently I have been trying to find an alternative method that fits with my layout and may be practical for other layouts as well. I must add that I want to avoid routinely involving a computer – I already spend too much time in front of one when I should be modelling.

 

My thoughts to date have centred on wagon based ideas. However I have recently recalled an observation made on my layout thread that suggested a system based on consignments and this does seem to be generating more positive vibes. I intend to work on the basis that each consignment requires a minimum of at least one wagon.

 

Please feel free to comment.

 

How far have my thoughts got so far?

 

There's an summarised version of the scheme in post 9 of this thread. The intermediate posts can always be read later.

[Ray H]

Consignment Cards

 

Each card will have an Up direction consignment printed on one side and a distinctly different Down direction consignment on the reverse and printed in a different coloured ink to minimise confusion if the card faces get muddled.

 

The card will indicate the number of (up to a maximum of 3) and type of wagons required for the conveyance of the consignment. The destination of the consignment will also be shown, annotated if required (e.g. to indicate which coal merchant at a station is to be the lucky recipient).

 

The consignment’s origin place will be the layout location holding the card at the time the card is referenced. A Down direction consignment from the branch will involve “reversal” at the junction as will Up direction consignments bound for the branch.

 

The two sides of a card will not necessarily refer to the same type or number of vehicles.

 

Wire Cards

 

The telegraph was used in old days to request wagons of the appropriate type from a larger location if none were available at the place where the consignment was presented for despatch. Messages sent by telegraph were said to be “Wired” hence the use of this terminology for this type of card.

 

The face side of Wire cards will detail the type and number of wagons required for the conveyance of the consignment for which they are being requested and where those wagons are to be sent to. The reverse side of the card shows where the wagon(s) are to be worked [empty] to for the consignment to be loaded onto them.

 

Wire cards will be location specific and provided for everywhere.

 

Edited to add: The appropriate card(s) will be used as required. They will not be subject to being drawn from a stack in a particular order.

 

Some Wire Cards will be marked “Urgent” or “For Perishable” and should only be used to request vehicles for consignments so marked.

[Ray H]

Set Up

Stock will initially be placed on the layout sensibly but randomly. For example, there wouldn’t be any tank wagons at Padbury because it has no means to deal with them.

The Consignment Cards will be randomly split into three groups, one for each end of the fiddle yard and the third for everywhere on the scenic section. This latter group will then be further split into (probably) equal amounts for each station and the branch fiddle yard.

The Wire Cards will already be placed at the station to which they refer.

Each location will have at least two “waiting to be despatched” or Out stacks as follows with consignments for the junction may be added to the most appropriate service:

• Up end fiddle yard (2) – Stacks for Oxford and for the branch.
• Verney Junction (3) – Stacks for the branch, for Oxford and for Bletchley.
• Branch stations (2) – Stacks for Oxford and for Bletchley.
• Down end fiddle yard (2) – Stacks for Bletchley and for the branch.

A location’s Consignment cards will be placed on the appropriate Out stack. They may or may not be shuffled beforehand.

[Ray H]

Operation

 

General

 

Consignment cards will be processed in the order they are uncovered.

 

The timetable will indicate the maximum number of wagons on a train with bogie and long wheelbase wagons counting as two vehicles.

 

The Consignment cards will be placed on the train’s stack once the wagons conveying the consignment have been added to the train. The Train stack will be moved manually around the layout as the train does likewise.

 

Consignment Cards will be turned over and placed at the rear of the Out stack when the wagons conveying the consignment reach the destination of the consignment.

 

Any unprocessed cards will be put back on top of the Out stack from which they came and subsequent trains will be marshalled using cards from this stack in the order the cards are revealed.

 

Consignments should only be added to trains that will go to or call at the consignment’s intended destination or the if the train stops at the junction where there is no though service e.g. there won’t be a through service between the Down end of the fiddle yard and the branch.

 

Consignments cannot be despatched by the train on which the wagon for the consignment arrived.

 

Semi-permanently coupled trains would be excluded from this system of working.

 

Where wagons exist for a consignment

 

Trains from Fiddle Yards will be assembled in accordance with the destination shown on the cards of consignments in the Out stack relevant for the train’s calling points and destination until the train has reached capacity. The card will then be added to the train’s stack

 

Consignments cannot be split leaving the fiddle yards. No further wagons will be added to a train if there is less space on the train than there are wagons specified for the next selected consignment. This will provide some variance in train lengths.

 

The branch and junction stations will add consignments to the train whilst there is space on the train to accommodate either all or part of the consignment and the cards for those consignments will then be added to the train’s stack.

 

Where wagons DON’T exist for a consignment

 

This is where the Wire cards are played.

 

The appropriate Wire card is passed by hand to the most likely (or only) part of the fiddle yard that has a surplus of the type of wagon that the consignment requires. The Wire card is then reversed and added to the Out pile for the destination shown on the card.

 

Wire Cards will take preference on the Out Stack to all other cards except those marked either Perishable or Urgent even if the Wire Card is marked similarly.

 

Wire cards will be treated similarly to Consignment cards thereafter and added to train’s stack as appropriate.

 

Wire Cards will be turned over and returned to the Wire Card stack when the wagons required for the consignment reach place on the card.

 

Empty Wagons

 

It is likely that stations and occasionally fiddle yards may amass more wagons (of a type) than they have consignments waiting for. This could introduce a situation where there is no space for wagons that are required at a place in order to despatch waiting consignments.

 

Consequently, stations should despatch any wagons that they have no consignments waiting for by the next available service en route to a fiddle yard. There will be no cards for these wagons so branch locations will always despatch the wagons to the Up end Fiddle yard whilst the Junction will always send excesses to the Down end Fiddle Yard.

 

Special arrangements may apply to Padbury if it remains in the track plan as trains would only be able to call in one direction.

 

Trials

 

I am considering replacing my currently unfinished layout with something similar but larger. I may well experiment with the system below on the present layout to see whether it works with or without enhancement.

[Ray H]

Enhancements/Explanations (1)

 

n.b. I've made a couple of grammatical changes to the above posts and have marked where I have added a clarification about the use of Wire Cards.

 

-----

Allowing for Unloading/Loading

 

Every wagon delivered to a station for loading/unloading will remain at the station/yard for a (model) day because there will only be one trip working per day.

 

Consignment cards will be annotated with a number 1 or a number 2 if the wagon is required to remain for longer.

 

The value of 1 indicates that the card must be added to the Out stack upside down. Consignments on upside down cards will be "ignored". Instead the cards will be turned the correct way up and returned to the back of the stack when they are revealed.

 

The value of 2 indicates that the card must be added to the Out stack upside down and facing the wrong way. Consignments on cards facing the wrong way will be "ignored". Instead the cards will be turned over (but left upside down) and returned to the back of the stack when they are revealed.

 

Empty wagons

 

Mike - The Stationmaster hereon - has pointed out to me that coal wagons would normally be returned empty to a local "gathering" hub devoid of an outbound consignment automatically. This would cause an eventual surplus of Consignment cards at stations if the wagons were moved devoid of cards.

 

Consequently empty coal wagons will still need to be moved around in accordance with Consignment card directions.

 

Consignment card composition

 

I have indicated above that Consignment cards will not necessarily refer to the same type or number of vehicles on both sides of the card as this helps to maintain a degree of variation in the movement of wagons. However, it will be noted that the Consignment cards themselves will only move between two places - the individual destinations shown on each side of the card. It is the actual wagons that will generally vary because consignments are conveyed by wagon type rather than by specific wagons.

 

The Consignment cards will thus be set up so that each station/yard on the scenic section will have an equal number of arriving and departing wagon movements of each type of vehicle but that number will vary for each station.

[The Stationmaster]

Ray,

 

You are depriving yourself of one key feature I think in only having wagons hang around at a station for a day.  Coal wagons would be there for at least several days (the longest I personally know of is 9 months) as coal merchants tended to use them to hold stock and in any case two days were allowed for unloading mileage traffic before demurrage set in - and sometimes it could take that long, or longer.

 

So the operational realism part in shunting a yard is having to shunt empties out from behind loaded as well as positioning newly arrived loaded,  Goods sheds almost invariably would clear wagons currently, but not mileage yards.

[john flann]

All very interesting Ray and Mike makes a valid point: that is a feature of wagon working.

 

To comprehend your proposed system I would need to see it printed out, then digest it over time.

 

Peter Denny had a system for his wagon workings, I'd need to look at it again. But if you haven't I suggest it could be worth your while to see how he handled it. He deals with it, I think, in his first book-Buckingham Great Central.

 

Meantime enjoy your Christmas and I trust have a Happy (and healthy)  New Year.

[Ray H]

Thanks for the observations gents.

 

Mike

 

I'm thinking that coal wagons would be amongst those where the Consignment card would be annotated with a (delaying) number as mentioned above. Your point is taken so they'd probably have a delaying number value of 2. That would introduce a four day hold before departure.

 

It also seems prudent to default to emptying the rearmost wagons first. The lack of a specific vehicle identity on the card(s) means that we have no accurate way of knowing how long a wagon has been in situ so by always emptying them in a specific order we get a turnover of wagons and (as the empties will be nearer the stops) an excuse for some shunting. This all assumes that the Consignment cards contrive to deposit a multitude of coal (or any other type of) wagons at a place to provide the scope for choice.

[Ray H]

John

 

The abridged version of the plan revolves around two types of card, Consignment and Wire - the latter a bit like a request (for more wagons) card.

 

Consignment cards move in parallel with wagon(s) whereas Wire cards are used to requisition wagons.

 

Consignment cards show the destination for the consignment and the number & type of wagons required for the conveyance of the consignment. The origin of the Consignment is the place where the wagon is/the place holding the card. There may be a priority level indicated as well. The reverse of each Consignment card has details of another consignment that is to move in (usually) the opposite direction.

 

Wire Cards are used to request the movement of a specified number and type of empty wagons for subsequent use. They indicate the number and type of (empty) wagons required to be sent to a specific station (as soon as is practical) to tranship a consignment. These cards are initially passed by hand to a (empty) wagon holding area - aka the fiddle yard(s) and the required wagons are then included in the consist of the next convenient train to the station from whence the Wire Car originated. The cards are added to the train's stack and treated like a Consignment card and the wagon(s) so requisitioned are treated no differently to any other wagon.

 

Different direction's consignments are shown on each side of a Consignment card, Wire cards only detail their parent or host station and how many wagons are involved. Consignment cards will normally relate to different wagons and often different numbers thereof on each side to provide a means of ensuring a variety of vehicles are used.

 

Does this clarify the idea?

 

One thing that I haven't mentioned previously and have only just thought of is what happens to the Consignment card that caused the Wire card to be issued. My immediate thought is that it is temporarily held with the Wire cards for the station so that there's no risk of further Wire cards being sent to request even more wagons for the same consignment.

 

I see this system as being self perpetuating once set up and it facilitates a change of operator during a day or having the model's timetable day spread over two or more actual days.

[john flann]

Ray, thanks, but I'd need a lot more time to comprehend the whole.  But if you are happy with it then that's fine by me. However, at first glance it does, to my simple mind, appear rather hard work.

 

As to Peter Denny's system if you PM me I can scan the relevant page(s), and you can see for yourself.

 

Now to decorating the Christmas tree. A bit more relaxing than this!

[Ray H]

John

 

It will need a bit of effort in setting up although I think that is a small price to pay for the flexibility I believe it provides. I couldn't come up with anything simpler that could cope with potentially six different "stations/yards" on the layout.

 

One of my problems was trying to provide a method by which I could vary the order in which wagons departed from each "station/yard" especially when the sidings at the various stations only have minimal holding capacity. It even has the potential to add a little spice if the sidings are full when more wagons arrive, a situation that wasn't unknown on the prototype.

 

I would certainly be interested in Peter Denny's article about his system to see if I'm trying unnecessarily to re-invent the wheel.

[john flann]

Ray, currently my scanner isn't working but when it is I shall send you the scan. Peter Denny's explanation of his method-he uses coloured dots on the solebar of wagons, turns out to be a lot shorter that I remembered. So if all else fails I'll type and post it.

 

Meantime I've been thinking more about your proposed system and I must admit, faced with all that instruction and explanation, my eyes glaze over and my comprehension is zero. Sorry about that but if it were in use and I could see it working then I'd be happy to offer comment. But I can't help thinking there must be a simpler way.

 

My thoughts then turned to the operational methods employed here in the USA, where many model railroads are operated strictly to the book.

 

http://www.kalmbachstore.com/12480.html

 

This is a book I commend "Realistic Freight Train Operation"  by Tony Koester, a well known modeller (and an Editor I have worked with on published articles of mine) that I suggest would be well worth your while to have a look at it. Link above.

 

I have found generally UK modellers are exceeding parochial in matters such as this; that is assuming they are interested in realistic operational methods at all, whereas it is a major aspect when modelling "American"; it is the norm, not the exception.

 

On YMR too there are several modellers in OZ with realistic "American" operated layouts. Those too would be worth a look.

 

Perhaps not the expected response, but it would open up a few new lines of thought.

[Ray H]

John

 

Thanks for the further info. I'll attempt to look at the link over the next few days - I have some baseboards to build for a colleague today. There's no rush for the scanned article. I appreciate your offer to type it out but I'm a long way off running the layout yet so there's no hurry, honestly.

 

In essence my idea is much like yours. It is card based but involves a primary card using a side for each direction. The cards also generally relate to different types of consignment on each side. The secondary cards are just a means of getting empty wagons from where they are to where they're wanted. I've opted to use card re-orientation (e.g. turning them upside down) as a means of delaying the despatch of consignments rather than resort to card shuffling.

 

Generating the cards will take a little bit of work as will trying to make sure that the opposing sides of the same card are populated in the best way.

 

I have nearly eighty wagons and I'm hoping the vast majority will be on the layout all the time.

 

Best Wishes to you and yours for the forthcoming festive season.

[ColinK]

In case it helps - I am one of the operators for the Romiley Club's O gauge industrial layout 'Gillan & Brown'. We use a card system to generate the freight movements, drawing cards at random from a large pile. However, the big difference is that the cards are not for waggons, but for loads eg metal plate from dispatch (to fiddle yard). So the operator has to find the right waggon, which might be in the factory, or he might have to get an empty one sent to the factory.

[Ray H]

Thanks Colin.

 

That's the kind of thing I'm trying to achieve by the train load (up to X wagons per train and up to Y trains all in the same scheduled day). I'm also trying to make the scheme self re-generating without further manual intervention.

[northolland]

Can I modestly suggest to look at the thread describing my former layout. It is labelled as "Along the Chapeltown loop". In it, I have described how I operated my goods traffic using a card based dispatching system.

[john flann]

Northolland, thank you for that link.

 

I have just spent a few fascinating moments going through your thread.  An excellent job both in terms of looking like a railway, but more so, to my mind, being operated like one.

 

And, I note appreciation accorded to the methods adopted here in the USA.

[The Stationmaster]

Ray, currently my scanner isn't working but when it is I shall send you the scan. Peter Denny's explanation of his method-he uses coloured dots on the solebar of wagons, turns out to be a lot shorter that I remembered. So if all else fails I'll type and post it.

 

Meantime I've been thinking more about your proposed system and I must admit, faced with all that instruction and explanation, my eyes glaze over and my comprehension is zero. Sorry about that but if it were in use and I could see it working then I'd be happy to offer comment. But I can't help thinking there must be a simpler way.

 

My thoughts then turned to the operational methods employed here in the USA, where many model railroads are operated strictly to the book.

 

http://www.kalmbachstore.com/12480.html

 

This is a book I commend "Realistic Freight Train Operation"  by Tony Koester, a well known modeller (and an Editor I have worked with on published articles of mine) that I suggest would be well worth your while to have a look at it. Link above.

 

I have found generally UK modellers are exceeding parochial in matters such as this; that is assuming they are interested in realistic operational methods at all, whereas it is a major aspect when modelling "American"; it is the norm, not the exception.

 

On YMR too there are several modellers in OZ with realistic "American" operated layouts. Those too would be worth a look.

 

Perhaps not the expected response, but it would open up a few new lines of thought.

The approach of US modellers seems generally to mirror fairly precisely the method of the US prototype with things such as switch lists and train lists and so on.  All rather very different from the British methodology of the steam age where far greater emphasis seems to have been placed on letting people do it for themselves provided they understood the basic information and constraints.  Hence things such as (again) switch lists and train lists were totally unknown in earlier days and the latter only really appeared with the arrival of ATI (Advance train Information) in the 1960s when some yards learnt in advance what was coming towards them on some trains.

 

Trains were formed in accordance with the requirements of the Marshalling Book whiel they were shunted without any paperwork beyond the wagon labels because staff knew what they had to do with each wagon according to where it was labelled.

[john flann]

Accepted Mike, but the point is that the American methodology provides a basis for a system of order and method to be applied to a model railway-not necessarily of an America prototype.

[Ray H]

I've just read Northolland's thread. Very interesting and to my view a layout design specifically with shunting in mind.

 

I would suggest that the way my thoughts are currently heading I've pitched my system about half way between Northolland's and John's both of whom have been able to show on their layouts how their own system works. For my part I've had to try to put in words what my thoughts are because whilst I may have an existing layout I lack a realistic timetable and that is what has to drive the wagon movement system.

 

Nonetheless I'm grateful for all the comments and examples.

[The Stationmaster]

I've just read Northolland's thread. Very interesting and to my view a layout design specifically with shunting in mind.

 

I would suggest that the way my thoughts are currently heading I've pitched my system about half way between Northolland's and John's both of whom have been able to show on their layouts how their own system works. For my part I've had to try to put in words what my thoughts are because whilst I may have an existing layout I lack a realistic timetable and that is what has to drive the wagon movement system.

 

Nonetheless I'm grateful for all the comments and examples.

I think you are bringing it together from the right perspective Ray and have tackled it in an original way by starting with the traffic - which drives the demand for wagons.  The timetable, as you say, is simply the system which moves the wagons - although to be more precise it is the system which moves the traffic and the wagons it is contained in plus moving wagons, where required, in order to load that traffic.  Having then gone further to look at what happens when the train is fully loaded but traffic is left over you inject a further note of realism (also known as a b*ggeration factor ).

Accepted Mike, but the point is that the American methodology provides a basis for a system of order and method to be applied to a model railway-not necessarily of an America prototype.

A very valid point John but I think what can happen with following the US system is that folk can end up becoming slaves to all sorts of lists and cards and start to miss the key point - which is traffic, which is I think where Ray has hit on a different initial approach which can then follow a British model.

 

Now in reality when operating a model railway it doesn't in many respects matter what sort of system you use for generating and moving wagons provided the way in which it is seen to operate reflects what would be seen on the prototype in the country/era you are modelling.  But if you use a traffic based method and, say, draw 5 consignment cards per day for both inwards and outwards traffic plus including some blank cards in your 'station stack' of consignment cards you start from a reality of providing unbalanced traffic flows and creating a need, potentially, to supply empty wagons for loading outwards - and then you have to match those wagon demands to your capacity to move them - it might well turn you into a Rolling Stock Controller but it might also turn you into someone who as to develop some skills in creating additional trains and so on.  I might be running away a bit too far from Ray's starting point but I'm seeing some good potential in it.

[john flann]

Mike, I never lose sight of the fact that traffic drives the railway, all I seek is order and method in meeting it.

[john flann]

Ray, I have sent you a PM where (and why) I suggest you google: albion software ship it

[Ray H]

PM received and acknowledged with a suggested alternative mail address.

 

Many thanks

[Wummyock]

Give this a look http://www.trainflow.com