Porcy Mane Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 Quality-wise? Does he mean that they don't run true? Run out = Wobble. P Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimbus Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 I am also aware of metal wheels from Markits, but they arent available in P4. No pleasing some people :-)) I wonder if anyone's had any success in re-profiling these, and drifting the tyres forward on the centre castings? They've kept quiet if they have. I believe Markits' 9F wheels respect the prototype's differing crank boss sizes, which is laudable, and they could look the best of the available options under a Bradwell chassis. The Nim. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Porcy Mane Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 I wonder if anyone's had any success in re-profiling these, and drifting the tyres forward on the centre castings? They've kept quiet if they have. I believe Markits' 9F wheels respect the prototype's differing crank boss sizes, which is laudable, and they could look the best of the available options under a Bradwell chassis. The Nim. It's not to difficult to fill and re-drill Gibson 9F wheels to correct the crank throw and as can be seen from the attached phot, not all 9F flanged wheel sets were created equal. P Edited for spleening mistook. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 I wonder if anyone's had any success in re-profiling these, and drifting the tyres forward on the centre castings? They've kept quiet if they have. I believe Markits' 9F wheels respect the prototype's differing crank boss sizes, which is laudable, and they could look the best of the available options under a Bradwell chassis..... The only other alternative I can think of would be to reprofile Bachmann drivers, setting them into AGW tyres. That still leaves the problem of suitable crankpins. It's not to difficult to fill and re-drill Gibson 9F wheels to correct the crank throw and as can be seen from the attached phot, not all 9F flanged wheel sets where created equal..... Not everyone can make a crankpin jig for redrilling. There was some discussion months ago on the Scalefour Forum about making such jigs available to members but, like many things, the idea has died. Nobody wants to do it, and there's no money in it. The boss of the 9F wheel is markedly different from the one normally supplied for the 2MT. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Porcy Mane Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 Not everyone can make a crankpin jig for redrilling. There was some discussion months ago on the Scalefour Forum about making such jigs available to members but, like many things, the idea has died. Nobody wants to do it, and there's no money in it. The boss of the 9F wheel is markedly different from the one normally supplied for the 2MT. I refer my learned friend to the boss of the front axle in the pic above: and then compare it to the Gibson wheeled (Crankthrow Corrected by Eddy Ford) 9F in the enlarged view of the first pic in this post: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/6450-blackgill-tyne-dock-to-consett-in-p4/page-2&do=findComment&comment=115247 From normal viewing distances, is the difference glaringly obvious? I think not but accept that others may see things differently. Re a Jig. I made a simple one up from some 2mm paxolin. Not for the 9F but to repair some J94 Gibson wheels that I'd screwed up. It worked fine for me. If I remember I'll post some pics tomorrow. P Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 I refer my learned friend to the boss of the front axle in the pic above: and then compare it to the Gibson wheeled (Crankthrow Corrected by Eddy Ford) 9F in the enlarged view of the first pic in this post: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/6450-blackgill-tyne-dock-to-consett-in-p4/page-2&do=findComment&comment=115247 From normal viewing distances, is the difference glaringly obvious?.... To me it is. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Porcy Mane Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 Nah.. bit muck on you can never tell... http://bigkris21.tripod.com/imagelib/sitebuilder/misc/show_image.html?linkedwidth=actual&linkpath=http://www.annesleyfireman.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/92090_9th_aug_64.jpg&target=_self I'm still open to persuasion though. Good job we're all are different though or life would be terribly boring. P Edited for spilling pistake. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
EHertsGER Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 I believe the Exactoscale wheels have a special arrangement (you need the Exactoscale tool) to fit and remove the wheels, some modellers love them and are willing to pay the extraOh, yes we do...I have used Exactoscale drivers (and the tool etc) to fit out several iterations of J15s, an N7 (same size!) and am about to do a Little Sharpie and an F5 (plus F4, 5, 6 and 7s in the 'to do' box, such is their fidelity to LNER types). Happy to pay the £ for the right profile etc. (to say nothing of delivery in a week not a phase of the earth's orbit) It was the sharp difference between Ultrascale bogie wheels and Exactoscale equivalents that caused a brief pause... Thoughts...? Best, Marcus Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
EHertsGER Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 It's not to difficult to fill and re-drill Gibson 9F wheels to correct the crank throw and as can be seen from the attached phot, not all 9F flanged wheel sets where created equal. EveStar55FlangeEdit3.jpg P So, not P4 then... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 Nah.. bit muck on you can never tell... http://bigkris21.tripod.com/imagelib/sitebuilder/misc/show_image.html?linkedwidth=actual&linkpath=http://www.annesleyfireman.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/92090_9th_aug_64.jpg&target=_self I'm still open to persuasion though. Good job were all are different though or life would be terribly boring. P It's one of those things that, once you've noticed it, you can't help but look for it again in future. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Porcy Mane Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 So, not P4 then... Well you could have had this version, from the now notorious; MRJ 234 (Flange-gate) thread. http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/91115-mrj-234/page-19&do=findComment&comment=1647606 P Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Porcy Mane Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 The only other alternative I can think of would be to reprofile Bachmann drivers, setting them into AGW tyres. That still leaves the problem of suitable crankpins. ...and successfully mounting the Bachmann wheel centre on an 1/8" axle... and insulation... The boss of the 9F wheel is markedly different from the one normally supplied for the 2MT. ...but is it markedly different to the prototype picture above. Taking into account we almost always have to use a visible 1/8 inch or 3mm axle, the boss area will always be a visual compromise. Until someone comes up with a solution. It's one of those things that, once you've noticed it, you can't help but look for it again in future. Yep, I probably suffer from that more than most but with the 9F wheel, especially taking into account photographs I just can't see it. I have a mate who is putting off building Bradwell chassis for the very reason of lack of cosmetically suitable drivers but with Mr Seymour being quite adamant that he'll not revisit the 9F wheel and no chance of one from Ultrascale (When will the Brit wheels appear?) we are not left with a lot of choice. P Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 I don't think Mr. Seymour really wants to make any further wheel designs. If that means the AGW wheel range stagnates, well, that is another story. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Porcy Mane Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 I don't think Mr. Seymour really wants to make any further wheel designs. I don't think it's a matter of not wanting to develop the range. It's the age old problem of not having the time. P Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimbus Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 I don't think Mr. Seymour really wants to make any further wheel designs. If that means the AGW wheel range stagnates, well, that is another story. Sadly, I suspect the same is true of the Exactoscale range. Do we still have manufacturers willing to sell separate P4 tyres which we might use to re-tyre OO wheels? The Nim. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Porcy Mane Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 Sadly, I suspect the same is true of the Exactoscale range. In my opinion the exactoscale range was developed to satisfy one mans personal needs (desires?) and once that had been fulfilled the range was not going to be developed any further. This was compounded when the business changed hands. Regarding the Gibson range stagnating, I don't think that is the case at all. There has been the introduction of plenty of rtr conversion sets, brass wheel centres and since the new proprietor took over, with the limited items I have bought over the last few years I have noticed a marked rise in quality. I imagine the demand for P4 wheel sets is only a very small percentage of after market wheel sales so who can blame a sole trader businessman for following the money. I think its a railway modelling fact of life that, the way technology and demand is at the moment there is very little money to be made in P4 driving wheel development. Non of the promised 3D printed wheel centres seem to have come to market at the moment, Keen Maygib seems have disappeared from sight and what's the point mentioning Sharman. Ultrascales business model seems to allow them to develop new wheels occasionally if there is a perceived demand but the choice of tyre material and wait can be off putting for many. Unless one has wads of cash with a guarantee of no financial return to throw at development of a specific wheel or you can do it yourself, it ain't gonna happen. Do we still have manufacturers willing to sell separate P4 tyres which we might use to re-tyre OO wheels? Have you tried speaking with any of them? P Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimbus Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 Re: P4 tyres supplied separately, Have you tried speaking with any of them? I asked Mr C&L. He couldn't give me an answer because he hadn't costed the idea. The Nim. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Porcy Mane Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 Re: P4 tyres supplied separately, I asked Mr C&L. He couldn't give me an answer because he hadn't costed the idea. Best of luck with that. I think your best bet would be speaking with Gibson or someone at Ultrascale. P Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 Re: P4 tyres supplied separately, I asked Mr C&L. He couldn't give me an answer because he hadn't costed the idea. AGW already do, as part of their brass centred packs. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete55 Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 In my opinion the exactoscale range was developed to satisfy one mans personal needs (desires?) and once that had been fulfilled the range was not going to be developed any further. This was compounded when the business changed hands. Regarding the Gibson range stagnating, I don't think that is the case at all. There has been the introduction of plenty of rtr conversion sets, brass wheel centres and since the new proprietor took over, with the limited items I have bought over the last few years I have noticed a marked rise in quality. I imagine the demand for P4 wheel sets is only a very small percentage of after market wheel sales so who can blame a sole trader businessman for following the money. I think its a railway modelling fact of life that, the way technology and demand is at the moment there is very little money to be made in P4 driving wheel development. Non of the promised 3D printed wheel centres seem to have come to market at the moment, Keen Maygib seems have disappeared from sight and what's the point mentioning Sharman. Ultrascales business model seems to allow them to develop new wheels occasionally if there is a perceived demand but the choice of tyre material and wait can be off putting for many. Unless one has wads of cash with a guarantee of no financial return to throw at development of a specific wheel or you can do it yourself, it ain't gonna happen. Have you tried speaking with any of them? P I think many of us fail to realise that sales of a few wheels to individual modellers, either by post or directly at shows, does not make a sustainable business model....especially if that business is your sole means of earning a daily crust. Rather it is the icing on the cake. The real business is producing wheels for other areas of the trade who place orders by the thousand(s).....so inevitably that is where priorities lay. Therefore as Porcy rightly pointed out earlier, time is not available to develop such delights as being wished for in some posts on this thread....even if the proprietors spirit is willing in theory. Moaning that ranges are stagnating shows a lack of understanding I feel. I take the view that we are fortunate to have what we do. No doubt some will disagree.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flymo748 Posted May 17, 2015 Share Posted May 17, 2015 Not everyone can make a crankpin jig for redrilling. There was some discussion months ago on the Scalefour Forum about making such jigs available to members but, like many things, the idea has died. Nobody wants to do it, and there's no money in it. Not died a death, but merely lack of time at the moment. As this is a "from scratch" project, it needs someone to produce the drawings, find the engineering firm, prototype it, tweak, commission a production run, etc, etc. As the best person with the engineering skills to do this already takes on an enormous (voluntary) workload for the Scalefour Society, then we are rightly not pushing yet another task on him like a slave-driver. However it's not dropped off the list of things to do, and has definitely progressed past the "vapourware" stage. Just be patient, and like the re-appearance of the point-blade and vee filing jigs, the St. Merryn book, and a number of other things organised by the Committee, it will be worth the wait... As to the "is there any money in it?" question, then as long as it washes its face, we don't have to make huge profits out of it. We'll provide the product as a service to members. As with many other things, that's what being a member of a society is all about. HTH Paul Willis Scalefour Society Deputy Chairman Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
EHertsGER Posted October 11, 2016 Share Posted October 11, 2016 So, what happened? From their web site and recent, perfunctory, correspondence, it would appear that Exactoscale are 'not re-ordering' their GER 4' 11" driving wheel in P4...As one who has a sizeable need for these (3 more J15s, 4 N7s and 2 F7s feels sizeable to me) this is a bit of a blow. Add to that Brassmasters' plans to release an Easichas for the J15 that would now seem pointless if there are no decent wheels for it, and I question the commercial wisdom of this.The demand seems to be there (we, me, at least, so put me down for 25 axles worth, please) and maybe elsewhere, so it would seem not to be a decision driven by commerce. The tool is broken, perhaps...?I know Pete has not been at his best lately, so do not imagine I am resentful of his need for a private life; it would just be nice to know what's going on 'down on the farm'IF this is the end of that wheelset, then we must go on with Gibson, but I for one have been spoiled by Exactoscale so must now start wondering if David Rogers could be persuaded to step in...eventually...Best,Marcus Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Porcy Mane Posted October 11, 2016 Share Posted October 11, 2016 I think as far as C&L are concerned the Exactoscale range seems to be dying a slow death. Even simple stuff like waisted pinpoint bearings seem no more. I had been asking when these would these be restocked for a couple of years and kept been told soon, yet at the York show this year the answer was "probably" never, reason not good sellers. Although I haven't checked the website recently, it seems there are no stocks of axles for the remaining driving wheels. A mate has been trying to get some for a while. If that is the case, lets hope they get some axles manufactured or they'll never shift the remaining drivers. P Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted October 12, 2016 Share Posted October 12, 2016 ..IF this is the end of that wheelset, then we must go on with Gibson, but I for one have been spoiled by Exactoscale so must now start wondering if David Rogers could be persuaded to step in...eventually... If you mean Ultrascale taking over what remains of Exactoscale wheels, I don't think that is going to happen, as the method of assembly is so very different. I suppose it could be said that this situation was always going to happen because the natural interest of the owning business is in track, not wheels, so the latter would always be the poor relation. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
EHertsGER Posted October 12, 2016 Share Posted October 12, 2016 If you mean Ultrascale taking over what remains of Exactoscale wheels, I don't think that is going to happen, as the method of assembly is so very different. I suppose it could be said that this situation was always going to happen because the natural interest of the owning business is in track, not wheels, so the latter would always be the poor relation. No, I meant a private commission with David to produce a replacement product; fine in theory, but note the use of 'eventually' at the end. My only hope now is that Pete actually responds to my query as to the future of the wheels and that I can place a bulk order to get one last production batch done. Yes, it will cost, but I get my wheels. There are so many exGE locos that use this size there must be a demand for it. I may even have to buy the wheels business... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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