topsy11 Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 Hello. I'm hoping someone can help me here as I was really hoping to get this part of my layout sorted today! I purchased two PL11 point motors to get me started so I can access my hidden fiddle yard. I've got a Peco CDU fitted and using SPDT centre off toggle switches. I did a mock up run and all worked perfectly so I installed them properly. One of them works fine and throws the point without a problem the other makes the same noise (click/clunk) but doesn't actual move the blades on the point. Both points are Peco ST244's. I've removed the point motor and it fires fine without being connected to the point. I'm 100% happy with the wiring and have tried two switches but the motor behaves in exactly the same way. I've tried adjusting the position its in in relation to the point and it still won't move the blades! Have I got a dodgy point motor or is there something else? Thanks Mark Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold ikcdab Posted February 4, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 4, 2015 Assuming you can move the point baldes bu hand (ie they aren't jammed) then the fault can only be with the point motor as you have proved the wiring and switch is OK. I suppose you need to swap over the point motors and see what behavior you get then....and report back! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
topsy11 Posted February 4, 2015 Author Share Posted February 4, 2015 Thanks for the reply. Yep the blades move nice n freely by hand. Wiring is all fine and other PM works fine. I've removed the PM and wired it up to a different point as the place I'm trying to install it isn't the most accessible! Here's a video to show you what I mean - when not connected it works fine. Very annoying as I can't now use my fiddle yard until this bit it sorted so I now need to get another PM :-( http://vid37.photobucket.com/albums/e71/ecossepeugeot206/IMG_1936_zps37h1p9yr.mp4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HLT 0109 Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 Alignment of motor and point are absolutely critical - in all planes. If there is the slightest extra friction of the prong from the motor to the point, you will get what the video shows - ie the prong moving slightly. The fact that this happens says to me that there is nothing wrong with the point motor. It can be the most frustrating thing to do. Try putting a thin piece of packing under the point motor, perhaps just at one end. Harold. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
topsy11 Posted February 4, 2015 Author Share Posted February 4, 2015 Thanks Harold. I did read one of your replies in a thread about point motor alignment and pretty much tried everything I can think of. I think I started trying to get it working at around 1pm and have only just sat down at the computer to try and get some much needed help! I just plonked the other one in and it worked perfectly. The board in the video is perfectly flat, I did notice this one has a slightly but more movement in the arm mechanism than the other one. I'll have another go after a cuppa Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenton Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 Agree totally with Harold. These PM are notorious for alignment issues (that is why Peco supply points with slots that the lugs on the PM fit into) even then there can be problems. Be aware that the point itself can be distorted very easily. The use of those infernal peco pins to fix a point to the baseboard or distortion due to track adjacent to the point are classic issues. The point should be free standing and on a flat level surface. Even then the direction of throw must be perfectly aligned with the tie bar. The fitting should be done with the PM pin set at half travel and the tie bar also at half travel (not easy with the springs fitted - but do not remove them with this type of PM)Good luck - thogh you may have used it all up on the one that worked. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
topsy11 Posted February 4, 2015 Author Share Posted February 4, 2015 Well I'm beaten! Just spent another 35 minutes on the bloody thing!! Absolute load of crap! I honestly can't do any more with the bloody thing it just doesn't work. I've tried five different points now and it just does the same thing. I've checked, checked again and again and again to make sure its level and running true and it still doesn't thrown the switch. I'm starting to doubt how reliable the other one is now as I've only tried it a couple of times after this one started causing me trouble! I need at least another 10 point motor's so which one is the best as I can't be doing with these things having wasted pretty much a complete day?? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 What wire size are you using for both the two feed and return wires? Needs to be 16/0.2mm or larger Are you allowing the CDU a few seconds to reach the recharged state betwen each operation? Allow at least two or three seconds. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
topsy11 Posted February 4, 2015 Author Share Posted February 4, 2015 Hi Brian. I'm using some heavy duty stuff designed for garden power tools - much thicker than the 16/0.2 im using as my droppers and slightly thicker than my DC ring main. Yep CDU is having time to recharge and on the video I've posted ive just wired straight from the transformer as each cable is only 12". As I say the other one appears to be working ok although I'll double check it tomorrow. I'm not sure what to do about this one as I wasn't planning on ordering anything else for a few weeks and only needed these two to keep me going for now. I'm happy with the wiring side of things and honestly can't think of any other way to line it up? I might try it on a piece of plate glass tomorrow just to be 100%! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
edcayton Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 If you've bought it recently take it back to the shop. Otherwise Peco are very good with problems, so contact their technical advice centre. Ed Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
topsy11 Posted February 4, 2015 Author Share Posted February 4, 2015 I ordered it from Hattons - only cost £7 so not sure if its worth messing about returning it? I may drop Peco a message and see if they can shed any light. There doesn't seem to be many threads with difficulty installing them so not sure what I'm doing wrong with this one. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium kevinlms Posted February 5, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 5, 2015 Hi Topsy11 You state that you have connected this PM via a CDU. What is the output voltage of the CDU? (it will of course be a DC voltage). It seems to me that the clicking indicates a low voltage. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 Following Kevinlms question, a similar question has to be,,, What is the input ac or dc and the rated voltage going to the CDU? Ideally 16 volts ac or around 19 to 22 volts dc. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
topsy11 Posted February 5, 2015 Author Share Posted February 5, 2015 Hi guys. Just come on to update this after receiving a very quick reply from Peco. They have pretty much stated the same thing and recommend a 16v AC PSU. I'll try the one connected to my Lenz controller when I finish work and if that works I'll have to order a 16V AC PSU. Cheers Mark. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium kevinlms Posted February 5, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 5, 2015 Hi guys. Just come on to update this after receiving a very quick reply from Peco. They have pretty much stated the same thing and recommend a 16v AC PSU. I'll try the one connected to my Lenz controller when I finish work and if that works I'll have to order a 16V AC PSU. Cheers Mark. If you have a multimeter, a quick test of output of the CDU, will tell us heaps. I remember someone else, Ray H? had similar problems with CDU not throwing points. IIRC that was never resolved. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
topsy11 Posted February 5, 2015 Author Share Posted February 5, 2015 Well I went to my nearest shop after work and purchased two more PL11's. Same thing with these two as well. Double checked the one I thought was working and it seems to be very hit n miss? I tried wiring up my Lenz TR150 transformer but it didn't do anything so not sure what's up there?? I'm going to order a 16V AC 2amp transformer and fingers crossed this will resolve the issue. I don't have a voltmeter I'm afraid and on the 'test bench' wired the PL11 up without a CDU just for testing. Hopefully it won't take too long for the transformer to arrive...I'll report back once its here!! Thanks Mark Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
topsy11 Posted February 5, 2015 Author Share Posted February 5, 2015 As I seem to be the master at ordering the wrong thing can someone recommend me a good PSU for this... I've found this one...https://esr.co.uk/electronics/products/frame_powersupplies.htm(2nd from bottom) Also can someone recommend me a good/cheap multimeter/voltmeter as I feel it maybe beneficial in this hobby. Many thanks Mark Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cpman46 Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 Mark The same website has a digital multimeter 121-209 which would be suitable for your needs. The plug in power supply 16V ac @ 1.5A 460-250 you suggest will be ok for your CDU. You should get a reading (on your new meter) around about 22-24V dc on the output side of the CDU. Hope this helps and cures your point motor problem. Regards Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 That 16 volt ac power supply would be fine. As too would those I have sent you in reply to,your PM to me. As for a multimeter there are many sold for around £10 that will measure ac and dc voltages and dc current but not normally ac current in this price range, though that shouldn't be to much of an issue. Plenty on ebay Maplin have this one for sub £10 http://www.maplin.co.uk/p/maplin-domestic-multimeter-n20ax Screwfix for sub £8...http://www.screwfix.com/p/lap-mas830b-digital-multimeter-600v/75337?kpid=75337&cm_mmc=Google-_-Product%20Listing%20Ads-_-Sales%20Tracking-_-sales%20tracking%20url&kpid=75337&cm_mmc=Google-_-Shopping%20-%20Mixed-_-Shopping%20-%20Mixed&gclid=CJad4LDwy8MCFVTKtAod6gkA6Q Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
topsy11 Posted February 10, 2015 Author Share Posted February 10, 2015 Hi chaps, Quick update...Ive swapped my 12v DC supply for a 16v AC supply (gauge master TM1) and the point motors are working much better!! Thanks for all your help and I'm much happier now they're working correctly although I've got quite a few more to wire up in the fiddle yard yet then it's on to the tortoise ones on the main area!! Cheers Mark Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 Pleased to read you have the Solinoid motors working correctly now. Don't use the CDU with the Tortoise motors. These will work best from a 9 to 12 volt dc power supply and DPDT (locking) toggle switches. But you can use ac if you use two diodes and SPDT (locking) toggle switches. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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