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Yes it’s exactly that one. Thanks. I have that photo anyway, and a couple of others too, but not a huge amount of detail. I have only a little info on other examples so hard to compare at the moment. I don’t know whether it was a standard LMS or LNWR item, or something more individual. I would imagine that they used standard items. I can make some sort of fist of its dimensions at least to help locate the track for the goods yard approaches, but it doesn’t need to be completed until later. Interesting, thanks. I took the railed off arc as being there to keep people away from the swing of the derrick and it’s mechanism. But I could be wrong. Either way I am probably no definitely not modelling the basement! Really this is about a plausible backdrop, but me being me, I tend to build something from the info I have and then on finishing, immediately find a contradictory photo. See about 124 posts on my other thread concerning Black 5s…. Iain

Not an appalling gaffe at all - I’ve made dozens worse than that. Thanks for that one, which I have seen somewhere before but will never tire of it. The rat hole is interesting. Thanks. I have done a bit more on the goods shed, yard and approaches, while waiting for supplies to complete the mainlines, which hopefully explains the bizarre construction sequence. Loosely placed to represent the approaches: Inlaid track for close to the shed. I’ve done this in copper clad with some leftover scraps as it will all be covered over, and ornamental. It works though. I have jibbed out on the scissors with tandem right outside the shed. Life’s too short. Need to get some turntables from PH Designs or similar. Another view of a derrick: showing a bit more wall detailing as well. Still slightly unsure how to build these, although I could bodge something. Near Camden no.2 box seen in the first pic above, I have left a gap as on the OS map from the era between the up fast and the goods yard approach as there is a cylindrical water tower/tank something like this: only not necessarily the same. I do have a couple of blurred photos. My go-to reference books like LMS Engine Sheds vol 1 don’t have a definite drawing. Any wisdom greatly appreciated. I also need a supply of code 60 fb rail for the 3rd/4th rail. Or similar I guess. Haven’t found a source yet, except for very expensive 24” Peco lengths. Given I need maybe 100’ of it. Any ideas? Iain

Oh yes. They certainly will! Iain

Looking at this in closer detail, I’m happy that what I thought I had worked out seems to accord with the book. Basically I can run ecs on the down carriage line (which doubles as the down engine line in some sources, backed up by this). These movements were, as far as I can work out, not banked by the arrival train engine. They will use the scissors onto the down fast by the shed and then cross immediately to the down slow. Some ecs, especially that which was banked out of Euston by the train engine in reverse up the bank, used the down slow all the way. The train engine dropped off at the top of the bank or just before and crossed to the shed via the various crossovers and the scissors that I am patiently waiting to build when Mr C&L delivers. I’m not certain whether ecs locos turned at Willesden before returning with up ecs, then turned again on the short table at Euston. But it doesn’t really matter because the up ecs moves will be a few inches below my baseboards and in someone’s imagination. Thank you again for your contributions. Very much appreciated. Now, a bit of progress. It would be easy to wonder why I am doing what I am doing when the priority is to complete the down lines, but as I mentioned, it is because I am waiting for a delivery from C&L. So, in the meantime, I have started on the backscenes, the goods shed building and the track for the goods shed. The backscene boards are 6mm ply and are removable. But they are too tall and I noticed this immediately I built them. So they will be cut down before sanding and painting. The goods shed is coming along. All the roof detail is now completed but it being mainly in white plastic it doesn’t photo well at all. I just need to sort the details at the front: there is a distinctive building by the entrance to the first road of the shed: I am halfway through this. I am guessing it is some sort of control office but I am clueless really. As long as it looks something like this, it doesn’t matter what is inside. The other crucial piece of detailing are the two wall-mounted derricks seen in these tight crops from photos I have bought or been given. However I don’t own the copyright so if I should remove them I will: I am currently struggling to find more details of these derricks. It looks as if they are mounted and articulated at their base on the wall of the shed. When not in use they sit against the wall as here (and I am not modelling them as working!). There are cables and pulleys in some arrangement at the top, but it is hard to discern the top mounting for these. They look as if they are for very light loads only: the top mountings for the cables and the base mounting seem insufficient for any more. Again, they don’t need to be perfect but plausible representations in the background. Any guidance would be much appreciated. thanks in advance, Iain

Thank you very much. That’s very useful. I had worked some of that out since that post, but far from all of it. It sounds as if that book is a good source of information. Iain

dggar - Many thanks indeed for those. Very helpful indeed. I had seen one of them but not all. Each new photo reveals some new detail. Construction of the main engine shed building will be a huge undertaking. Mark - very nice indeed and I think Mike may well be right. My first Edge loco will likely be a Princess though. Iain

Thanks Farren, that’s perfect. I think mudhole covers have to come off. Glad it’s a Hornby one not a metal one! Iain

@farren By any chance, do you have a date for this photo? Trying to work out when 45034 had mudhole covers and when it didn’t. I think this photo below is probably in 1960-61 ish - AWS fitted but no warnings for overhead electric cables was my reasoning. I’ve fitted AWS to 45034 but I haven’t removed the mudhole covers. Iain

Stanley and dggar, many thanks indeed. I used Train of Events to get some info on the NE side of the engine shed - the never photographed wall. But these shots are much clearer than the ones I could get. Very grateful for these. The detail of the transition is very helpful. It’s almost implausible-looking, that the signal cabling actually divides the ballast on the up fast from the hard standing. I guess is that because the cables were laid (many years later) on the transition? Stanley, I was most drawn to the photos on p79 of the book that show the whole first row of wagon tts and capstans, well short of the shed entrance. The ones you are referring to on p51 and p64 I hadn’t connected with that part of the site, so the detail is very welcome. Great to hear from you. Hope all is well. Best wishes, Iain

Thank you Mike. I fitted the new rear frames to an existing Hornby chassis I had. I could have used the Comet extensions but I had this Hornby one in a drawer and went for it. The chassis came from under 46248, but I had made mistakes adding lead so the body and chassis were no longer compatible. Hence I made Comet frames for 46248, sold the chassis for 46251 and mated these two plus Comet bogie. Plenty of extra work went on but in the end I have another half decent Coronation for not much. It will pull 10 including 5 kits quite happily so this will do fine. Iain

46251 City of Nottingham awaiting delivery of etched plates. Otherwise finished and ready for weathering etc. I removed some of the awful rtr weathering with t cut and then gave it 3 coats of Klear: I think it turned out ok? Iain

3 Black Fives finished ready for weathering etc 45027 needed glazing and the backhead completing. Front steam pipe removed. All DJH with a fair few detail additions. LFB pulling a rivetted tender 45034 I built 3 years ago and never got round to fully painting and lining. Unusual SFB with added top feed as discussed back in the thread somewhere. Hornby body and tender with many mods, Comet frames. Thanks to Pete for a (correct) short chimney 44875 as recently documented. LFB welded tender DJH considerably longer than Hornby. Never noticed before today. Now usually when I post a photo of a Black 5 I find I have got an important detail (or 7) wrong...... Iain

Yes exactly - that’s not far off the kind of detail I’ve got from these photos here. I want it to be a realistic and plausible background to the main event so I don’t have to get every detail correct, but something close to what it might have been. Iain

Seems like a recurring theme on this thread is me asking a question to which the answer is found in a book I already have - I just hadn’t found it (or bothered to look for it?). So, many apologies for my laziness. I have found a couple of photos in “Camden Goods Station” (I mean, why wouldn’t I look in there first?) showing in 1934 the first row of wagon turntables clearly all in inlaid track with what look like setts of some description throughout. I can’t imagine there would be any change from then until the goods station was closed and demolished. So there will be some kind of transition from sleepered/timbered track to inlaid before that. Iain

I find Comet crossheads require quite a lot of fettling both for the connecting rod little end joint, and to run smoothly on the slidebars. They are quite hard (although not the hardest I’ve seen) lost wax brass components, so they take a while. If you have a good quality flat needle file that is the perfect thickness, the grooves for the slidebars could be filed fairly quickly but you’d still need to take care. They need the drop links soldered on but this is still a bigger joint over a larger area than soldering the brass pin for the union link (?) to that, so really shouldn’t be an issue. The piston rods need a little tidying up, more if you do what I do and insert the piston rod into some brass tube soldered into the cylinder, which I find gives much smoother running and a more realistic look. Markits LMS crossheads are beautifully smoothly machined, with matching perfectly smooth piston and tube. Although it’s a while since I last used them, as I recall, you do need to trim the top layer of the connecting rod short of the little end so that you can insert it between the inner and outer layers of the crosshead. You need to alter the Comet slidebars only to use one layer thickness rather than laminating two together. This is a little fiddly because the Comet ones are designed around being assembled as two laminated layers. Once done there is very little fettling and cleaning. Markits sell bespoke drop links for different locos. On balance I would say Markits ones are marginally less work in total, neater and smoother. Also they are more expensive. Comet fettled and with brass tube Comet on 46145 Markits on 46245 Iain

Good evening Tony, I hope that you and Mo are both well. I thought that you might be interested in these clips - very raw and unfinished of course, but: prototype location to scale (apart from the gauge) 4 track mainline 8P pacifics (plus a few others!) built all or part from kits various brass carriages among the rtr, using your couplings Much still to do! Best wishes, Iain

I’ve made a few bits of progress - an inlaid crossover for next to the goods shed, and more detailing of that shed’s new roof. I’ve also started making the track for the approaches to the goods shed. You might think I am mad, handbuilding point work that will not be used, but there is method to this madness: 1. There is the possibility of a limited shunting scenario backdrop to the mainlines 2. The track approaching the goods shed will be seen in the background to almost every photo and video taken 3. I had/have a load of thin sleepered track and thin timbering to use up and it’s all good practice for the rest of it. You can see a few bits in these clips. Making a more prominent appearance this time are 46245, 46248 and almost completed 44875. Iain

If this video is genuinely showing the first long row of turntables a couple of hundred feet short of the goods shed at Camden, then it’s clearly track inlaid into some sort of hard standing for at least all that distance to the shed. https://www.huntleyarchives.com/preview.asp?image=1097486&itemw=4&itemf=0002&itemstep=1&itemx=11 Yet at this end (photo from John Turner’s Flickr as previously acknowledged) it is clearly low grade ballasted - ash/cinders and a few stones probably. So any thoughts about (a) what sort of inlay and how to represent it, and (b) the transition would be hugely appreciated. thanks in advance. Iain

No, sorry I can’t help. I haven’t used any Dublo bodies. I know that Terry of Hest Bank fame has used them successfully. I must admit, I haven’t actually even examined one to see whether it is dimensionally or detail accurate, or consistent enough with the Hornby ones I have done. So I really am less than useless in advising you. Iain

Echoing other contributions, I’ve recently discovered this thread and I am hugely impressed and inspired by both your work, Pete, and the layout as a whole. In my case, building a smaller section of a significant mainline I also have some decent sized buildings to make so I hope to learn from your expertise. One question at this point is where is a good source for large sheets of plasticard? thanks for sharing, Iain

Many thanks Brian, yes, I had seen but had forgotten both the aerial photo and the final 2 seconds of the YouTube clip which shows the use of one turntable and the entrance to the goods shed well. The aerial photo seems to show no change in the ballasting arrangements until at least quite close to the shed entrance, perhaps 2 wagon lengths short of the building. I am guessing it would go to track inlaid into hard standing of some sort. Given the age of the goods shed, possibly concrete? I don’t know really. EDIT - no, from 0:37 in the clip it looks more like hard standing for the row of turntables a long way short of the shed. Now I am clueless. My memory isn’t perfectly clear but I think Leicester South has a big goods yard and shed with working wagon turntables and capstans? Or am I mistaken? Wondering whether @Headstockmight be able to help here. Lez - I think I will probably leave both the scissors and therefore the tandem out if I am honest. But who knows. I’ve done stranger things. Iain

Hi Lez, I very much doubt it. The whole area is just a 3D backdrop to the main scene with a small amount of movement possible. Of course, the alternative view is that if it’s there I should model it and the fact that it can never be used means that the standards for construction are lower and it would be a good practice piece for the scissors off the down fast which absolutely has to be perfect! Iain

Thank you Brian. I’ve studied some more of the photos of the site in my period and I think those dimensions seem spot on. I know that @Martin Wynne looks in here from time to time (and I appreciate every bit of help that he has given me in particular, and us all in general) so he may like to add something. It is really only the bit circled in red below that I need: the rest of the entire baseboard area at its lowest (apart from the dive under, pits and turntable well of course) is packed ash cinders. Which neatly or not so neatly brings me to another question. I am planning the representation of the goods yard and its approaches. From what I can see the track is laid pretty much as normal in yard-type ash cinder ballast, level with the sleeper tops. Nearer the shed there are wagon turntables. I am wondering whether the whole yard area including the lines of wagon turntables was in the same lowish quality ballast - I guess a mix of ash, cinders and a few stones - or whether there was some transition to inlaid track. Do wagon turntables need more anchoring than just in ballast? It is viewable on this link: maps.nls.uk/view/102902575 from which I have taken a tiny crop which I hope does not infringe any copyright. I will of course remove if so. The red lines are the up lines already laid. Blue is the corner of the goods shed, and in green is some portion of the approaches I would like to model. I won’t be too assiduous as much out of necessity has to be ornamental - the scissors will bite the dust for a start. Probably just the 3 wagon turntables adjacent to the shed, and not the earlier group. Presumably Cn means capstan? If I am honest, I’d probably prefer to model the whole lot in low grade ballast, but if I have to represent inlaid track, how, into what and where would the transition be? thanks in advance for any thought. Iain

I have a quick question about ballast shoulders in the 58-62 era that I am modelling. When I did the templot plan I did not activate the trackbed function so it is not on the printout and I just can’t remember the basic dimensions. This post: from: seems fairly definitive - would I be sensible to follow these dimensions? I was going to chamfer the closed cell foam to the right profile. I know more modern ballasting guidance has ballast ridges heaped behind the sleeper ends but this era would have a profile much more like the picture above. Iain

Thanks Baz yes, so left of the dive under there will be the up fast, the goods yard line and the line through the station. Sorry, I thought you meant 3 in addition to the up fast. I think that will work ok. A couple of hours blitzing the new goods shed today: has become: Apart from making it very narrow as a backdrop on the previous layout, I also made a couple of errors that I will try to rectify this time. This photo on John Turner’s Flickr stream shows just how enormous the real thing was. Hopefully this iteration will capture more effectively the imposing backdrop to trains passing Camden No. 1 box and beginning to “descend the bank to Euston” (in my imagination!) Iain