wombatofludham

1 hour ago, rob D2 said:

In your opinion of course , How many times do we hear “ they’d sell” which roughly translated means “ It’s what I want “.

I hear electrostar a lot - is this purely a london area unit ?( besides the rainbow colours with each franchise change ), if so how many people model the contemporary third rail railway ? 
 

A fraction of a fraction I’d guess at .

 

As a model manufacturer surely you go after the most popular stuff , financial gambles not really needed ?

Given Irish Railway Models are progressing Iarnrod Eireann's 3,4 and 6 car Rotem Inter City units in a much smaller market, which is a design that as I've said before is a bit "Marmite" with fans of the Irish scene having effectively killed off most loco haulage in the country, I think what modellers consider an economic case and what the likes of Accurascale (and Revolution and Cavalex) consider they can make a go of aren't the same.

A carefully tooled Electrostar would open up an untapped market.  Don't forget too they regularly (i.e.are timetabled) work into Wales on Cardiff-Paddington services off peak, and at the moment no-one knows where the ex Anglia units will rock up which are in storage following their replacement by Flirts on West Anglia, so despite me not wanting one, I can see there would be a market and given their experience in making affordable Marmite units for the Irish market, I can see Accurascale not sharing your observation.

I noticed a semi-reveal on Facebook today when you uploaded the formation diagram for the Northern Irish Mk2b-c fleet where you mention a forthcoming release of the coaches in the gorgeous but unusual Caribbean Blue and Morocco Red original livery, which makes me wonder if you are about to announce a 101 class Hunslet to go with them.  Given the Hunslets were effectively a revised "Whistling Wardrobe" I do wonder if a Class 20 using the same mechanicals might be in the planning stage?

Interesting post on Facebook today, note comment about the original livery NIR Mk2s

The full diagram

On 13/12/2023 at 19:10, big jim said:

have they got electricity in arthog? 

Occasionally.  That said the previous owners of Bron Meirion in the village installed a water turbine generator on part of their land.  There's also two unused tunnels in Friog which were designed for a hydro-electric scheme when Fairbourne was self raised by MacDougall the flour magnate in the early 1900s but was never implemented, sadly.  Llwyngwril also had some form of water powered DC electric system before the grid. 

It would be good if we could reactivate some of these schemes so we can have battery-electric trains up the coast with opportunity charging in the station loops where trains wait to pass.

I used Posca paint pens with a fine nib to paint the rail webs before laying and ballasting (using wallpaper paste mixed with the ballast to fix but allow for removal at a later date unlike PVA which sets like concrete) then when dry used a mix of paint pigments to weather the ballast and sleepers in situ using a paint brush to dry brush the neat pigment on.  I tended to brush away from the rails on the outside, and along the rails inside the track.  I used umber paint pigment for brake/poo dust and charcoal pigment for oilier areas, such as at signals.  By brushing away from the rail on the ballast shoulders you get an effective fade effect where in real life the brake dust and poo aerosol from the lavatories would get less the further you were from the track.

I didn't fix the pigment in place as I wouldn't be handling the track whereas when I use pigment for weathering rolling stock I fix with artist fixative to allow for handling.  I find the neat paint pigment gives a lovely, dusty finish and you can vary the tones by doing multiple passes to give a variation.

3 hours ago, PMP said:

You extrapolated. You provided a text book example of extrapolation commenting on the lack of weathered buildings and pristine track. If you don't like comments regarding you extrapolating something, don't extrapolate.

 

I wasn't going to bother but seeing as you commented.

I'm not extrapolating, I'm commenting on a wide range of videos on the Tube.  In particular, I have watched the good compilation videos of a videographer going by the name of DCC125 who clearly visits a lot of shows and does show the layouts in good detail, as well as others.  I don't think the videos are in any way selective.  Whilst there are those layouts which have applied weathering to the environment, there are a lot more where the weathering is either non-existent (or, to elaborate a bit more on my original post, not enough, which isn't quite the same I grant you).  Now in my original post I said " Yet a lot of the layouts I've seen film of have nice, clean ballast." which isn't the same as extrapolating, "a lot of" doesn't mean all, it's an observation.  I also said:
 

Quote

Of course none of these observations in any way negates my respect and admiration for the modelling, and the exhibitors who have given up their time and incurred considerable expense and inconvenience to show off their modelling, which is often in all other aspects fantastic and deserving of praise.  Nor would I consider these things "deal breakers", I'm not that anally retentive, but it does seem a bit odd.  Of course, I suppose the correct attitude to take, which is what I do when at an exhibition in person, is to view the layout as a work of art, and as such, is allowed artistic interpretation and as such should be enjoyed in the round.  So what if the pigs are the wrong kind of pigs, the buildings look like they have just been erected and not a trackside fertilised tomato plant is to be seen, at least someone has produced a working artwork, sometimes of subjects which are unfamiliar or challenging.

...and for that reason I'm not about to start naming layouts where, in my observation based on visits and video of exhibitions I think the weathering has been non-existent or insufficient.  I respect the exhibitor's choice to present their artwork as they see fit.  Yes there are those who do weather everything to realistic levels, but I've seen enough video and first hand observation of exhibits at a wide range of exhibitions recently to express surprise at the number of layouts which seem to be presented in, to my eyes, an unrealistic state of environmental weathering.  And I'll re-iterate it doesn't alter my admiration and respect for the modelling concerned.

No I wasn't, I was explaining that we've had enough comments sneering about "playing trains" from people who think watching football or getting drunk is normal, despite both those activities being somewhat odd and creating costs to society in terms of extra policing and health costs which model railways do not.  I've had rabid, season ticket holding, footy fans sneer at me for being into model railways in the past and the arguments I've used here were thrown back at them with some force, so fighting external sneering with some acidic responses was not only justified but also achieved the objective.  If they want "bants" they chose the wrong person, it's a form of bullying so being patronising back to them is frankly the lesser of two evils

The real point is the fact we can do without snotty attitudes from within the hobby when we all know there is still enough external commentary on the hobby from people who think it appropriate to diss our hobby.  I couldn't care less if they choose to waste their money on football or getting liver sclerosis so long as they keep out of my face.  What I find more difficult to accept is sniping from within the hobby.

On 27/02/2024 at 09:00, Jol Wilkinson said:

If you look up the definition of modelling. one answer is "the activity of making three-dimensional models". So the purchase and use of RTR/RTP items isn't "modelling".

 

The creation of a layout or diorama. which may enable those purchases to be used however, could be seen as modelling. It depends on how much effort you want to put in. 

Hell's Teeth, I thought I could be patronising but this is Carlsberg level.

We have just managed to change public opinion on the "playing with toy trains" snottiness we used to get, thanks in no small measure by celebrity modellers "coming out" without the need for blue on blue gunfire from within our ranks.

Let's get one thing straight.  We play with toy trains.  Adult, very expensive toy trains but toy trains none the less.  There is nothing wrong with that.  After all, it is less bizarre than choosing to spend hundreds of pounds for a season ticket to sit in a draughty, unheated shed watching 22 multi-millionaires kick a bag of wind from one end of a lawn to another, whilst consuming reclaimed meat products of dubious origin and with the added thrill of possibly being beaten up by the other tribe.  Or spending hundreds of pounds destroying your liver with alcohol only for you to wake up the next morning with no memories of the night before, thereby wasting the the whole evening's expenditure and with the potential long term prospect of needing dialysis at some time.  Playing trains by comparison is positively sane.

I also take offence at the judgement that you need to "put some effort in" to justify the label "modeller".  I enjoy making scenery far more than hand knitting my own trains, but even then I'll use a combination of ready to plant, kit, and home designed and 3d printed items to achieve the effect I want.  However, those who exhibit collections of Triang models creating layouts typical of what used to be shown in the old "Track Plan" books with contemporary items shouldn't be sneered at, and given they are often knee deep in visitors at exhibitions, clearly the modelling fraternity share their passion and nostalgia.

It's about time we started to support each other and stopped being so judgemental and snotty about what is after all a hobby, a pastime and not international diplomacy or politics.  And yes, I know I can sometimes be dismissive about steam enthusiasts but when I use the term "kettleistas" I do so in response to just the kind of dismissive, holier-than-thou attitudes I've just described safe in the knowledge that I am planning a steam layout as well as one for trains with coathangers so am a kettleista myself, but don't intend to elevate my interest and passion to religious zealotry.  Life is too short for that.

Finally got round to unboxing my BR Mk2b delivery yesterday and after comparison I take back what I said about Bachmann's Mk2a baboon's bum.  Whilst the level of detail on the Accurascale 2bs is next level, with the sliders picked out in aluminium and the interior being painted for example, I think with a little modelling it might just be possible to mix the 2b and Bachmann 2a coaches without them looking too odd.  Adding some paint to the interior of the 2a coaches, and a battery reed-switch lighting rig to allow lighting (something I've tried successfully on some other non-lit coaches) should allow them to work alongside the Accurascale coaches, the shades of rail blue do differ slightly but in real life you got some variation depending on outshopping dates and with slight weathering will look fine.

So, if you were wondering about mixing the two fleets it shouldn't be too bad if you paint the interiors of the 2a coaches and consider lighting.  Once moving I suspect you won't notice the differences so much.

There again if Accurascale want to do the whole Mk2 design story to a consistent standard bring 'em on, I can always flog my Bachy Mk2's.

Revenons a nos moutons...

How's the 80 class coming on?  Must be due a reveal soon along with the revised Dutch Van for the incoming IE Mk2 sets?

2 hours ago, brushman47544 said:

Personally I don't remember Mk2ds on cross country services in any quantity - weren't they mostly Mk2e cascaded from the MML?

There were a lot of Mk2d coaches on Cross Country from the mid-80s on.  When the Cross London services were launched via Kensington six Mk2d TSOs were converted to a super-mini buffet, with a two bay counter and microwave for ping meal service whilst the rest of the fleet got a light refurbishment with new seat covers and carpet.  The Mk2ds were also common on the Paddington to the Midlands "shorty" six car sets, often working with a micro buffet conversion of both Mk2c and d types.  They were still running in cross country sets up to the early 90s when Inter City had a cull of the less reliable Mk2 stock although the odd BFK could still be found with Intercity swallow branding as late as 1995.

I can't help thinking that there might be a better chance of getting South Wales Valleys locos and authentic design non-generic 4 and 6 wheel coaches from Rapido.  Certainly in OO, they have more or less stuck two fingers up to anything post-steam bar a few wagon commitments and seem to be pursuing more niche steam era subjects.  I do think small runs of interesting, slightly obscure or off-radar subjects like authentic four and six wheelers and pre-grouping small engines seem to fit their OO range philosophy and business model, and at least if their usual pre-order model attracted enough interest to proceed to manufacture it would confirm or deny the actual interest in the subject.

Business case e-mails to Rapido could be worth a few minutes keyboard time.

15 hours ago, Legend said:

I would have said that was unnecessary duplication until I received the 2bs . Absolutely agree . A 2d to this standard and not Bachmann prices would be superb . This elevates coaching stock to a new level .  Mind you think of what they could do with Staniers or Gresley stock ! 

For me the quality of detailing of these vehicles will make even Bachmann Mk2a coaches, which are a nice coach, stick out like a baboon's bum if mixed in with the Accurascale coaches, and will look even worse if mixed with the ex-Airfix 2d which as I have said before got me and my friends very excited about their release when we were wearing school uniform last century.  I think it would be unreasonable to expect Accurascale to do a 2a to match the standard of their 2b-c stock given the Bachmann models (although they are not afraid to go toe to toe with Barwell) but given the Hornlinefix 2d is now really at pension age and given the frequency with which 2b-c stock ran intermingled with 2ds, certainly on the WCML and later on cross country services, a 2d range (including a BFK which has never been modelled but was a regular feature on cross country services) would give a suitable "air conditioned" range whilst not going head on with the Bachmann 2f. 

That said, given blue-grey Bachmann 2fs are rarer than pixie snot and unicorn dung, frankly if Accurascale wanted to do the complete Mk2 canon I'd be laughing all the way to the Caernarfon bankruptcy tribunal.

(edit) Forgot to add, I do think that if Accurascale wanted to do some LMS coaches the equally venerable Period 1 stock which began life with Mainline might be worth a punt, they were around for many years and again some types have never been made.  Some also made it to the Northern Counties Committee lines out of Belfast and lasted in service just long enough to be hauled by the three Hunslet diesel locos as excursion stock so might also have an Irish connection depending on details.

We definitely need some 2ds to this standard now!

36 minutes ago, PMP said:

The problem with ‘extrapolating’ observations as you have made is that the videos you’ve watched, only include elements that the videographer wants to film. There are plenty of examples of realistic modelling at exhibitions, and channels that cover them.

Nobody is extrapolating anything and I've seen some very nice layouts with decent weathering live and on video.  All the videos I've watched show whole layouts and all the exhibits at the show, not just "edited highlights".  But many, many more seem to have little weathering beyond the rolling stock.  Perhaps that is how the layout builder wanted things, and if you read the rest of the post instead of jumping to conclusions and using your conclusions to put up a patronising response, you would see that notwithstanding my finding it odd quite a few exhibitors seemingly prefer not to weather buildings, track or in some cases stock. I still value the skill, modelling and the fact they have shared their modelling and time to show the layout off.  Having done exhibitions myself as an exhibitor it's no easy task and my observations were by way of a casual observation of a wide range of layouts, both in person and on well produced and comprehensive videos, all shot with the consent of the exhibitor.

I must admit to having been watching a number of videos recently on the Choob of shows I can't really get to, living virtually on the beach (well, a few yards inland of it) in Wales with several hours of mountains to traverse to get to any exhibitions, even those in the part of Wales where they don't really speak proper Cymraeg y Gogs.  There's a surprising number of them which must be a sign of the hobby actually being in a good place, and they have made me determined to get over to the Midlands to visit a few more shows this year, so long as Welshpool isn't under water.  There were a few things that stood out though which I haven't noticed before;

Why don't exhibitors weather buildings?  The stock is often treated but the surrounding buildings look almost like new builds.

Similarly, when was the last time you saw pristine ballast unless after relaying?  Today, ballast looks a lot cleaner I grant you, since we stopped dumping (literally) aerosol brown liquid out of coach lavatories, no longer have widespread cast iron brake shoes scrubbing off iron oxide and replaced 1950s incontinent diesels dribbling oil everywhere, but up until the 1990s most ballast was a murky shade of brown or even black, so much so any new ballasting stood out like the proverbial baboon's bottom.  Yet a lot of the layouts I've seen film of have nice, clean ballast.

Arriving at a terminus at a scale 50 mph to stop with such a force you'd catapult the passengers through the building and into the next county.  Now I will put my hands up and admit to having a few buffer stop interfaces when operating "King's Oak" mainly due to one unit having some sort of inertia simulating DCC chip installed which I could never master, but when running "Dolgellau" I liked to run trains at scale speed, with gentle stops that wouldn't lead to HMRI popping round for a chat or having to get the whole Meirionydd ambulance fleet out.

Of course none of these observations in any way negates my respect and admiration for the modelling, and the exhibitors who have given up their time and incurred considerable expense and inconvenience to show off their modelling, which is often in all other aspects fantastic and deserving of praise.  Nor would I consider these things "deal breakers", I'm not that anally retentive, but it does seem a bit odd.  Of course, I suppose the correct attitude to take, which is what I do when at an exhibition in person, is to view the layout as a work of art, and as such, is allowed artistic interpretation and as such should be enjoyed in the round.  So what if the pigs are the wrong kind of pigs, the buildings look like they have just been erected and not a trackside fertilised tomato plant is to be seen, at least someone has produced a working artwork, sometimes of subjects which are unfamiliar or challenging.

In that livery they had predominantly grey seating with a brown-grey floor.  The walls were a beige colour and the vestibules a darker brown-grey.

The later Central Trains moquette was a dark blue as can be seen in this interior shot I took on the last London Midland 150 tour which turned out to be not the last 150 in LM service.  the walls and panelling are as delivered but the flooring has been refurbished.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/36805899@N06/30357783573/in/photolist-NfBzpB
 

I think Wednesford just moved south of Birmingham... fantastic news and alongside the Dapol 323 will make anywhere between Northampton and New Street fair game for a model!

Those of us who like our units are being spoilt, Mr Ambassador.

1 hour ago, trevor7598 said:

I think we should call them Huge Box!

Ahh, Hugh G Box, star of the 1930s cinema...

If it re-assures those concerned about panel fit and fragile details, I have two 37s which have survived my clumsy handling and I assume they have removable panels as I can't see any joins and as they already make noise, I haven't had to access the interior, but the roof panels all look good to me.  I didn't get a Deltic as they weren't that common around the Midlands so I can't comment from experience on any chains but I do recall reading they were re engineered in the later batch.

Did the 50s have the same chains as the Deltics?

45 minutes ago, Accurascale said:

BR Blue and NSE Class 50 Deco Samples Revealed!

 

As ever, some fit and finish issues are apparent on these samples, such as the headcode glass on D423 and the body to chassis fit on some examples, but these will be corrected on production models that you receive.

 

 

10 minutes ago, shunny said:

Is it just me but the first thing that notice is how much the removable roof panel sticks out. I have to say this a trend that I'm not a fan of having seen it on quite a few models now. 

Fit and finish issues are mentioned in the original post.  "Such as" means a number of issues, not just those listed.  Bit too early to start stressing about the fit of the roof panel when Accurascale say they are aware of and expected a number of issues to be resolved.

Personally I'd rather have a removable panel for easy DCC installation than having to perform open heart surgery on a £200 loco (yes Hornby I'm throwing that brickbat at you and the ridiculous having to remove the PCB in the 87 to fit a 21 pin chip upside down malarky)

Fantastic kitbashing, really atmospheric.  I decided to put a modern courts complex into "Wednesford" and lightly kitbashed a 1960s "New Ulm" German railway station originally from (I think) Vollmer, into the sort of building that would have replaced older court buildings in anticipation of the Beeching reforms of the court system in the 1970s.  My inspiration was the old Granada TV "Fulchester" Crown Court building where Granada just sent the office teaboy down to Manchester city centre to take a few pictures of the entrance to their courts building.  Of course Wednesford would not be a Tier 1 Crown Court, but would have county and magistrates courts plus rooms for tribunals and the like.  I too sourced a Royal coat of arms off eBay, a badge from a uniform of some sort which was the perfect size (and I've used uniform buttons with the Royal Cypher for other Government buildings on the layout) so it's nice to see great minds thinking alike!

Just shows how, with a bit of thought, some 3d printing, and modelling, HO scale kits can be refashioned into other uses and "Anglicised".

2 minutes ago, Michael Hodgson said:

I wouldn't recognise the county flag, and I've lived in Hertfordshire for forty five years.

It's probably what the kids are wearing on their school blazers.

There's been a lot of new county and regional flags following a campaign by the Flag Society to stimulate interest in flags and banners Meirionydd (which remains a county even though the council was abolished, whereas Gwynedd isn't a county, being two thirds of the old principality of Gwynedd) has, since 2015 had its own flag featuring three stoned white goats floating off on an acid trip.

You think I'm joking?

10 hours ago, westernviscount said:

I had virtually the same experience a couple of years ago. My layout is small but not pre- grouping however. I understand it is not to everyone's taste and confess that I enjoy appealing to a particular kind of modeller. However, I do not enjoy my efforts being treated with contempt. 

I feel for those who modelling foreign layouts as I can well imagine they are seen as fair game for ignorant comments. 

I remember one incident where a lady glanced at my layout and said fairly loudly "oh, there isn't much to this one." I offered her an apology in the hope of at least embarrassing her a little...I doubt it had the desired effect. 

 

My first ever venture into the world of exhibiting outside our village hall was when @AY Mod called my bluff and invited King's Oak to the Ricoh arena in Coventry.  The layout was a compact fictional terminus set in the Midlands in the late 90s-2000s so full of noisy DCC Sprinters, and was my first attempt at modelling since my gonads and voice dropped in the 70s, so was pretty much poison to the more anal modeller.  So it surprised me just how many people actually stopped to look at it.  However, there were some who thought it appropriate to give a stare of disdain.  Thing is, me and my friend who was also with me were (and still am) built like the proverbial brick dunny and if they happened to make eye contact with me, tended to get a stare back, one which invited them to come over and be greeted warmly by the throat.  On the whole though my brief outings with Kings Oak despite being second-gen DMU based were very positive, especially when I extended it to feature "Crossroads" with a film crew recording an edition of Crossroads inexplicably with the Ghost of Meg Richardson in the shot.

Like I've said before I don't take model railways seriously.

I've become really interested in worldwide railways through watching YouTube cab ride videos.  I know there are plenty around here who think YouTube is the spawn of Satan but there are a lot of good cab ride videos out there.  Over the past couple of years I've watched a multitude of driver's eye views fro Norway, Sweden, Denmark, the Netherlands, Germany, Switzerland, Austria, Italy, Hungary, Slovakia,Slovenia, Serbia, and Bosnia, and after getting into the videos usually do some research into signalling systems, rolling stock and other operating differences such that I'm now becoming interested in a wide range of railway systems.  It's interesting too to see how the railways are integrated into the townscapes and countryside which is the area of modelling that interests me most, so I will be attending model shows with an increased interest in continental modelling in the future and will now seek out those who dare to break the Holy Wail of the GWR kettleista branch line.  I can recommend those who still are a bit doubtful about funny foreign places to try the odd European cab ride video and who knows, you might develop a wider interest in railways.  Be warned though, they can be very addictive and you might just develop a Continental railway crack habit.

On 10/02/2024 at 11:12, AY Mod said:

 

The Cream Soda can is top of my list as a local loco that I used to see most days on a rail trip.

 

I can recall the smell of Four Ashes right now just looking at the pic.

I remember an A level trip to Croda Four Ashes where the most memorable part of the trip was seeing the fireless loco and me impressing our guide that I knew what it was.  Given I failed my A level Chemistry, the rest of the visit wasn't terribly relevant although I remember one of my fellow students describing it as a "different smell round every corner" and the alarm caused when passing one particular mysterious spray our guide referring to the process at that point producing carcinogenic compounds.  Turned out the spray was water but not before we all edged away from it.

I too could be tempted by the Croda pressure cooker even though Wednesford has no need of one.

I was 1 when mom and dad moved to a new housing estate in Handsacre built to house miners moving to Lea Hall Colliery in Rugeley.  The Trent Valley mainline dived under Lichfield Road overbridge at the top of the street.  I suspect mom and dad noticed I liked trains on walks in my pram into the countryside that surrounded the village as the then still new electric expresses and long slow freights went past.  The railway seemed to be visible wherever you went in the village and surrounding area so it was probably inevitable I'd become obsessed with electric traction.  Then in 1968 I started primary school, and Hayes Meadow primary had a sports field that went up to almost the railway boundary.  One of my earliest memories of the school is one hot summer afternoon Mrs Niblett taking us outside for a story session and having to compete with the two class 25s being thrashed on the daily London Brickliner, one if the few diesel hauled freights to pass apart from MGR traffic.

My nan and grandad lived in Pleck, Walsall, and when we used to visit for the weekend Grandad would take me and my brother for a long walk which often included a stop off at Bescot yard, further feeding my interest.

Given my parents couldn't drive, the fact we used to rely on Green Bus of Rugeley's eclectic fleet, Midland Red's home built buses, and Walsall Corporation's pick and mix fleet including the last trolleybuses, to get around, also gave me an interest in buses.

So, I blame the family.