dibber25

I take back what I said. Some of those proposed names are actually a lot better than the ones that did get applied! There was an early artists impression with the Cheddar Gorge nameplates. I'm sure it will be in the books you guys have got - it's very well known. I only seem to have the David Birt book here and that has too many Rail blue pics for my liking. I preferred the original liveries. Western Champion was always a favourite, with Brian Haresnape's beloved Brighton/Stroudley 'improved engine green'. Brian once told me he tried to get that on as many locos as he could but succeeded only with D1015 and one Class 31. Looked a bit odd with maroon coaches, though. CHRIS LEIGH

Some of the ones they DID use were bad enough! Presumably Western Reject was among the ones that got.... rejected. Amazing there wasn't a Western Star, bearing in mind it had been a GWR/BR name for so long. Fabulous engines but they did have some stupid names! CHRIS LEIGH

Geoff, rest assured there's no guarantee that the magazine 'goo' is the same every time! I hate to think the number of times over the years that I've been assured "We're using a different glue, so the covers don't tear when you pull it off", only to get deluged with complaints from readers who've been unable to remove the free gift without destroying the magazine. It's also usually very thick and 'gloopy' - I wouldn't want to use it on a model. I'd use superglue - nothing that I glue with that stays glued for long! CHRIS LEIGH

You must be thinking of the Trix model!

But one of the biggest complaints from MR readers in recent years has been that the fine detail is either difficult to fit or falls off or both. That complaint has applied to most if not all RTR manufacturers at some point. It could hardly be left unmentioned. My view, is that the interference fit should be tighter or that the gear should be glued. Dave has apparently accommodated those who want to change wheels etc, but are they going to be the majority of purchasers? Granted, most of the young folk on RMweb may not have a problem with it. Many Western purchasers will be the same age as me (old enough to remember them entering traffic), with the same levels of eyesight and dexterity and patience as me. Maybe, our sample had been handled a lot before it reached us and that's why the brake rigging was loose. I don't know the answer to that. It will be interesting to see - when your models start arriving - whether any of you find the same problem. (And if you do, whether you'll admit it) To put a 12-wheeler on the track usually requires that you touch the bogies. In this case it is almost impossible not to touch the brake rigging. I really hope it works out fine for everyone - including me on the one I'm buying from STEAM - but it WAS a problem on the review sample and it WAS necessary to say so, and to mark the model accordingly. Otherwise, what is the point of a review? CHRIS LEIGH

Thank you Adrian, I appreciate your post. This year I actually mark 50 years of reviewing models, so the suggestion that those reviews might have been artificially skewed did shock me. I, too, have seen and held the model at Warley (I ordered one immediately) and I agree absolutely AND SO DOES THE REVIEW! The review says the model is great and unreservedly the best 'Western' by a country mile. I'm NOT THE AUTHOR OF THE REVIEW nor did I allocate the score marks. As to the other posts on here, not Adrian's: The irony of all this 'guff' on this forum is that I wrote ONLY one or two sentences of that review - the ones concerning the the detached brake rigging! All this 'supposition on here that I have somehow 'panned' this model or that the author of the review has said there's something wrong with the looks of it is simply UNTRUE. What is true is that posters on this forum have questioned the look of the model. MR has said it looks spot on. Now read the questions and doubts on this forum - windscreen pillars, headcode panels, and it's actually RMweb posters that are criticising the model, not me, not Model Rail. As I've already said - the scoring system is very subjective and I, personally do not like it. However, it is something we were repeatedly asked to do. it is a whopping good score but if all people are going to do is read a percentage mark, we might as well save paper and time and not write a review. This is not football - here the scores don't matter half as much as the actual words and pictures. I am exceedingly fed up with all this. I'm even being reminded of mistakes from the past just in case I'd forgotten. (I actually don't think it was MY mistake). By the way, I once described a Hornby Coronation as a 4-6-0 - I've remembered that one - no need to remind me. CHRIS LEIGH

I actually DON'T remember that, so you have the advantage of me. But I did say, did I not, that I don't ALWAYS get it right - evidently you do. In my job - and no doubt in Dapol Dave's too, there's always someone to remind you of your errors. CHRIS LEIGH

I won't be closing the (my) topic off but I will suggest that they should consider their comments about the MR review before posting, I'm surprised by that considering you chose to post in my review that you promoted MR and that you'd be doing a full review (inferring I'd missed information). That's not particularly fair I'm afraid. (Andy's quote - I could not transfer it for some reason) I'm not sure I see your point. I was merely promoting Model Rail but I'll refrain from doing so in future unless it's under the Model Rail thread. I certainly wasn't implying that you had missed information (you'd seen a review model and at that time I had not, so I had no idea whether you had missed information or not) I had certainly not intended to be unfair. My own reference to unfairness related to Adrian's post, in which the suggestion that reviews are somehow 'skewed' to create controversy really surprised me, as we have been friends for many years. However, I sense that I am in a hostile environment here as regards this particular model, so I'll say no more. CHRIS LEIGH

I must point out that the references in Dave's post to comments about the face, cab windows etc relate to comments here on RMWEB they do NOT reflect any comments made in the Model Rail review. We are more than happy with the looks of the model and we have said so. In order that I can get on with doing my job, rather than monitoring this thread, I would respectfully ask that everyone who intends to comment on here in response to Dave's comments, READS the review first and refrains from speculative comments about it. CHRIS LEIGH

I certainly HAVE NEVER written a review "to stir controversy and sell magazines' and I find the suggestion very unfair. I write for one purpose and one purpose only - to inform the reader. I may not always be right and the reader always has the option to decide for himself. What I find alarming is that, based on DapolDave's reaction, other people on here are jumping to conclusions about the review and assuming that we've criticised things that we actually haven't criticised at all. Read the review!! It's a good review - a very good review of a very good model. And please don't put words in our mouths or suggest that we have motives that we don't. CHRIS LEIGH

I don't normally discuss reviews but since the comment about the brake rigging was actually mine, I'm happy to defend my thoughts. Frankly, for the few hours that I had the model in my possession, the loose brake rigging drove me nuts! Some had already fallen off in the box. In refitting one bit, another would fall off. After running it, I found brake rigging on my layout and - 24 hours later, I found a piece on the stairs leading up to the layout. The model was on loan from Dapol - hence the fact that we didn't fit the nameplates etc and in the circumstances I didn't feel that I should glue the brake gear. I found it fiddly to refit and once refitted it would remain loose. Sorry, but if a model is going to be sent for review, the reviewers comments have to be accepted as valid findings. Whilst Dave asks what he has to do to get a higher mark, I might equally ask what a reviewer has to say in order NOT to be accused of bias. It's a superb model and we said so, and 92% is a very high score. Personally, I don't like scoring systems and I never used them, for this very reason. What do you do for an encore when you've given a model 100%? The Western scored higher than the NRM Deltic and only the Hornby 60 has scored higher I seem to recall that had extra features (whether you like them or not, and no loose parts). As I understand the Westerns are on their way from China, it is reasonable to assume that the brake rigging on them will be similiar, but even so, I reported a problem which afflicted the sample I reviewed and that was made plain. I have a Western on order from STEAM and we had already agreed that we will follow up the review with pictures of D1000 with the plates fitted etc (and I'll glue the brake gear - and I'll check that it is made of a 'glue-able' plastic). CHRIS LEIGH

We would always include such information with a locomotive review but not necessarily with a multiple unit, particularly if there are no dummy units for it to pull. Our test train is made up of Hornby Mk1s, simply because that is what we have always used. It does enable straight comparisons to be made with earlier locomotives, which would be much more difficult if we started using a different test train. CHRIS LEIGH

Yep, that's the one! Tried to think how I might incorporate something similar into my layout. Not sure if anything would run over Peco laid that badly, though! CHRIS LEIGH

There's movie of this that I've seen on Youtube. Wouldn't begin to know where to look for it now but I stumbled across it one lunchtime whilst browsing for Ontario Southland stuff I think. Looks even more amazing when you see a GP9 staggering over that track with pedestrians wandering in front of it. CHRIS LEIGH

No, I can assure it won't. It's something I know you're aware of and it looks like you've taken steps to deal with it, although I didn't know that at the time I wrote the comment. CHRIS

Full review in Model Rail, March. I had 14 behind the sample on 2ft radius curves and it was fine. A great Western at last! There's just one thing, though, .....but I wouldn't want to pre-empt the review...... CHRIS LEIGH

Not really. Some pre-pro samples are for livery approval and turn up without motors etc. Others are for mechanical approval and turn up in plain grey plastic. Sometimes manufacturers get lucky and an early sample arrives with both full livery and mechanicals.

Quite right, John. Plus, with Hornby the inevitability of the less knowledgeable - 'toy end' customers not realising they are buying a dummy. Bachmann have always said that cost is the issue - I suspect it would be the same for Hornby. A dummy 2-BIL is a nice idea but I suspect it is not a viable one. CHRIS LEIGH

Can't help feeling we've had this one many times before - including when Model Rail interviewed Graham Hubbard at Bachmann. The gist of the argument is that you can't just leave out the motor, and once you've made a new underframe etc to suit an unpowered car, there's no saving in cost. However, Dapol have managed to do dummy versions of their N gauge locos. I have a dummy version of the old Tri-ang EMU, so you never can tell, and it would be a way to get more mileage out of the 2BIL tooling. CHRIS LEIGH

I suspect it will be perfectly possible to run two powered sets together without problems. Haven't tried it with Hornby units but I can easily run two Bachmann 4-CEPs and an MLV (That's THREE power units) and they run together beautifully on analog DC (with an ancient H&M controller, too!) CHRIS LEIGH

I saw them day in, day out, every half hour past home and, as I recall, they were generally tidy and clean but not really smart and rarely shiny unless ex-works. I don't recall dark green. In general, the colour always matched, apart from varying degrees of mattness. Changes were very gradual due to the large number of units - yellow panels came slowly, as did the replacement of whistles with horns (the latter SO much more effective!). Black triangles started to appear somewhat later than yellow panels, I think. BILs and HALs were randomly mixed on the 28 (Waterloo-Reading/Aldershot) which split/joined at Ascot. Peak time services were eight cars, off-peak four cars. I certainly remember the 'Do not clean soot..." notices and I fancy they were the work of the school kids who travelled regularly (the grammar schools for the area were Egham (Strodes) and Camberley, so there was much use of the trains for kids from surrounding towns to get there. I have bagged the job of reviewing the Hornby model when it arrives (possibly next month). The prototype notes are already written. CHRIS LEIGH

Lots of them made it into Rail blue but I'm not sure any entered departmental service, as the newer 'Bulleid' era units were preferred for de-icers etc. In the movie 'Take a Girl Like You' Oliver Reed waits (in his rag-top moggie minor) at Pooley Green level crossing for a blue set on an up Reading to pass. CHRIS LEIGH

I hasten to add that the above comments are what I've been told by a mutual friend. It's a long time since I last saw Colin (when I gave a slide show in Stevenage about 2-3 years ago). I hope we can meet up again soon. Who knows? - might get a review copy of the book! CHRIS LEIGH

If you had worked with Colin, you would understand. He won't let it go until he's absolutely satisfied with it. That's why his work is always of such a high standard. Its not a reprint, by the way, its a new edition. As I understand it, all the photographs have been re-printed from the negs, scanned and re-touched anew and there are even some different photos in it. The original would have been printed letterpress by 1960s technology and there's no way that a reprint of 50 year old plates would be acceptable. I understand, however, that the new version is now printed and available. CHRIS LEIGH

I'd say almost no chance, I'm afraid. The BR livery ones sell out quite quickly but most pre-1948 liveries move much more slowly. The models are printed. CHRIS LEIGH