dave flint

Yes, in fact I'm rather selfishly commenting on here as DC EMU's are of no interest to me at all, nor are AC ones (except in N.....) But I feel Hornby is taking the rise with regard to pricing on many models, especially the Thomas range, and the VEP appears to be another good example of overpriced, poorly done models. As I said, Hornby are now rather odd when models are released. You get the suburban coaches, the L1 steam loco.....and then this VEP pops up. Another manufacturer seems to have no problem in producing better models with substantial drive trains at lower cost. I've grown up with Hornby and don't like to see the direction they now appear to be heading in.

Perhaps no bad thing. It would then leave the door open for a manufacturer who can actually be arsed to produce DC EMUs that are cheaper and yet have better detail and chassis arrangements.........in fact, one that now has a bit of a track record...... And yet......look at the Gresley suburbans that Hornby have just brought out. As I mentioned on that thread, it seems pot luck whether you get Hornby's A-team or the z-listers working on their models these days.

So how much gets sub contracted then ? In my mind, I'm pretty certain that Bachmann have a design team working in England at the UK head office, and presumed Hornby would do the same. To me, the design "style" of these two Hornby models differs substantially, so is design done by the subcontractors too ?

Not my thing this, nor is the 4VEP, but one must wonder how both these models came from the same manufacturer. These look excellent - standing up to comparison with Mr Goddard's craftsmanship. So did the YTS kids get to do the 4VEP ? It's jolly frustrating. We know what , say, a Heljan model will offer, and Bachmann too. But with Hornby, you don't know whether the A-team or the z-listers get the job.

Just out of interest, will Heljan be able to make economies of scale out of this, buy using a common mechanism with the 15 - ie regarding bogie wheelbase and pivots ? I know the body and bogie frames are different, but what about the mechanism ? FWIW (not much) I'll be buying one of these (as well owning the other "oddballs") precisely because I didn't see these running/in service.

They're great looking models, and I'll definitely have one in N, but one thing that looks odd on those images is the inter car coupling. The long bar might do the job, but on the real thing there is a plethora of cabling between the cars,, carrying the power for the traction motors. Admittedly, it would be a bu**ger to model, but that area looks too "empty" on these models.

I've taken the plunge and bought one too. It's lovely. What I found interesting was my local dealer's display shelves. Only the Green and Blue full yellow ends there. I asked if I could have D5900 in GSYP, and he second guessed me. "Can't shift the other two", he says, "but I've sold 23 GSYP and only have one left". I never saw the real thing, but my mind can't see the blue one without thinking it's a dumpy 37.

I see you gave in then Pete ! You were a little riled at not getting the original wrap-round windows at the beginning of this thread ! To be honest, I wasn't too interested until I saw them in the flesh in Hattons. Now, I've just chipped my "correct polarity" D5705 with a spare TCS D2PX-UK, No problems with finding room for that little chip. The model runs very sweetly, but has as very low top speed. Is this something other have noticed, or is it just mine ?

Thought so. Very poor show then.

A SR EMU is nothing of interest to me, but beig aware of the Bachmann 411 and the great reception that it got - together with a disappointment about other Hornby models, I have been following this thread with interest. Let me see if I understand this fully. They've not got the looks correct ("face", gangway, vent details, bogie orientation), and the basics of making it run have been missed as well, with a penny pinching measure of putting a pancake motor in it ? Bachmann have released a 411 that hits the mark in looks, has a quality bespoke chassis, and only has a "problem" of needing to be coupled together correctly so that the internal lights work ? It seems to sum up a view I've eld for a while, in that Hornby seem to have given up on serious modern image models, leaving the field open for Bachmann. Tell me, what do the 411 and 423 retail at ? I bet its similar money, yet the 423 seems distincly "Railroad" for non railroad money.

I had a run down the M62 today for some other stuff, and saw the 28 in the flesh. I agree with others that it looks far better in the flesh than in any photo's I've seen. The helpful chap behind the counter admitted that they all had a fault with the polarity, but that they'd sorted it - mine had the "correct polarity" sticker on it too. I gather its caused Hattons a lot of work to sort this problem out. Admittedly, I've not tested it yet as she was due home...... I decided to go for preserved D5705, but was tempted by the D5700 with the light coloured bogies. But, the brake shoe and linkage are light coloured too - I expected these were dark on the prototype, and don't think this livery and cab window combination ever existed (yes I know they decided to do one, the later, windscreen model). Well done Hattons for taking the plunge. Totally OT, but they also had a Dapol 10000 on display, available to pre order. Now THAT looked interesting !

Never mind all this frothing, I hope you've not overlooked a detail on the 144. Judging by several units I saw at Leeds this week, they need fitting with seuthe smoke units at the factory.......

Anyone wishing to have a looksee at the real thing in the flesh might care to have a few sorties from Manchester Picc to Stalybridge. On the line from Guide Bridge to Stalyvegas there are several sidings, which have been home to rakes of these wagons (in both yellow and "cream" liveries") that haven't moved for months. The rails are thickly rusted around them, their wheels are rusty and they seem very underused. Never mind tipping bodies, just dump them next to a running line for months !

A very tempting model, but how long were the real things (and how long will the model be ) ? I don't know it If will actually fit on my planned preservation layout. And with 4 exclusive models now, will hattons get their own listing in the "products" section ?!

Is he ? I knew bromsgrove models and others are on, didn't know Mr Morton it his business (name unknown to me) was on here. More details please !

But if buying via mail order, say, how do you know which one you're getting ? Different product codes or the mither of contacting them for a description of the plug ?

Same here, and it is a very sweet runner. The basic rule of thumb is that Heljan's large motors draw relatively high currents. For some reason (probably price) most if my Heljan locos have ended up with tcs chips and all run beautifully. Due to space considerations, a small chip like the 8249 was ideal for the 17, and I figured that the smaller motor wouldn't draw the higher currents of their other models. I can't say I have the same success with bachmanns 2 and 3 function decoders. They seem very fussy over installations, and can exhibit some odd jerky behaviour.

Seconded. In the quest for more accurate models, a few appear to have forgotten that rtr stock cannot easily cover all eventualites and variations found in a prototype.

Agreed. I couldnt really give a monkeys about what cooler group is fitted. In this small scale, does it really matter ? Really ?! Bring on the NMT one.

Agreed. The law of diminishing returns comes into play here. A lot of this thread had been tying the model down to specific locomotives, and I'm sorry, RTR stock has to be a compromise on some detail/livery combination. We will get a very good model of a class 22, just accept that there is some "genericness" about it..

Well, as a returnee to N gauge, poole means "split gears" and "jolly awkward to convert dcc". I have dead, stored class 40, 25 and 101 stock thanks to them. My return to n has been prompted by the Improvements that Dapol and Bachmann have brought. Having several Dapol locos, please explain how their running properties can be improved ? And why should you have to take models apart to improve performance ? They should have been good runners from the off. I'm with Ben. I'm waiting for the NMT one (incorrect cooler group or not, lifes too short) but have seen the virgin model in the flesh.. it looks brilliant. The lack of gap twixt body and bogie is one major improvement that n as a whole has needed, and really lifts the models up another notch.

Saw my first Dapol HST in a shop yesterday. I have to say it looks superb, and Dapol's hard work in getting the windscreen and light clusters fitting correctly (as detailed on here) appears to have paid off handsomely. Now where the NR yellow bookset .........? I echo the comments about the Voyager being a little rough, it really highlights how these models are improving at a rapid rate. Now, just slightly off topic, what lube do you use on the gear towers ? I'm tempted to save any excess off certain models up in a jar to put on stock whn its service time. I've got the thin Dapoil, but understand that this is just for the bearings.

Any news on the Network Rail NMT book set ? Hattons web site currently says ND111e Dapol Model Railways Class 43 HST Bookset in Network Rail (NMT) livery 43014 + 43062. Due into stock mid 2011 Do they know something ?!

It was £21.49 on Saturday !

A little more digging and I've found the following.... I'm using DCC and all I have done is removed all 4 copper contacts at the end of the bridge rails. All the tracks into and out of the TTable are connected to the powerbus.( powerbus:- two cables that run below the baseboard around the layout. Feeder wires are soldered to the side of each rail and drop through the baseboard and soldered to the powerbus. The DCC controller output is then connected to the powerbus) Underneath the Turntable you can see two wires from the centre going out to the track infeed, I have disconnected these and soldered them again to the powerbus. This means the rails on the turntable bridge are always live. I just made sure that in the position where the engine enters the TTable the bridge rails are on the same powerbus wire as the infeed track. This allows the engine to be driven onto the bridge. All works perfectly, as the turntable rotates, once it gets past 180degress the polarity reverses, this does actually reset the sound though on a sound chipped loco, but no short circuits and no need for a reverse module or track adapter. This answer my questions about the power to the turntable itself. As long as all inlet/outlet tracks and the ttable are connected to the same bus, then there seems to be no problem. It's probably the simplest solution to this problem. Now to borrow a router to nibble away at the baseboard.........