1BCamden

Hi Iain, good to hear from you, I thought I would draw it out to assist in my interpretation of the arrangement, apologies for the low quality attachments, hope you can zoom in to define the roads.

Regarding this arrangement, like you said "I can't get it wrong" quite so, there is that must going on, it would never be noticed, however, you asked.

Again assuming, that light engine movements from Euston to Camden employ the down empty carriage line, the route avoids the scissor crossover to the down slow, and runs pass the shed on the shed avoiding road to the turntable, straightforward and generally without conflict once past the shed avoiding road which is bidirectional.

The up engine line services the country end yard via the shed avoiding road, and runs between the town end yard roads and the down empty carriage line, picking up light engines backing down to Euston at the double slip crossing at the southern end of the yard, with an escape option at the shed road 1 crossover.

So, as per your latest photo mark up, the green route is the up engine line, and the red route is an internal shed movement road from the ash plant to shed road 1, plus the route for shed road 1 to the up engine line.

To answer the question, the crossover between the green route and red route, isn't necessary, except as an shed escape route.

Food for thought, very best regards, great track work by the way.

Hi Iain, while I’m sure you have a pile of these, all route coloured and scribbled on, I thought I would wade in to this operational complexity too, if only to show support.

This area, and it’s route switching, performs many functions, from getting express engines on to shed after they have banked up from Euston, to allowing the Camden Coal access to the garden road down the bank, to down empty carriage workings, plus allowing shed (town/south end yard) movements from the ash plant to the shed, or movements off shed down to Euston.

The turnout in front of the shed road 1 appears to be the one which doesn’t align with paired switching. I’m going to get my crayons out and come back and edit this I’m sure.

Light engine onto shed, following banking a departure; requires they come on shed tender first over the scissor crossing and the facing turnout to access the shed avoiding road and the turntable. While the scissor crossing arrangement would obviously be paired, this facing turnout serves the up engine line, plus some sort of additional up engine line avoiding road, then employing the Camden Coal crossover to  gain access to the up engine line.

Light engine onto shed, would appear normally to employ the down empty carriage line, avoiding the scissor crossover, then taking the facing turnout to access the shed avoiding road and the turntable.

The road most confusing, and possibly the least understood, is the shed road 1 to the up engine line crossover, as it only allows shed road 1 to directly access the up engine line, unless shed road 1 was operated as an internal through shed road, doubtful based on actual history and the number of photographs to the contrary. While again the photographic support isn't strong, this crossover could have been installed as a engine escape road to the up engine line to protect against hold ups or failure after the ash plant, which could inadvertently block the up engine line to Euston.

With these points in mind, actual on shed crossover pairing for this area could be as follows:

 - scissor crossover would be a stand-alone arrangement to itself.

 - country end yard light engine to Euston, shed avoiding road to up engine line, trailing turnout to facing shed road 1 turnout.

 - shed road 1 trailing turnout to shed road 1 and 2 facing turnout.

These would not interfere with shed road 1 and 2 either of which could be switched and employed as required. However, shed road 1 trailing turnout cannot be paired to the up engine line facing turnout, as this could prevent engine movements off shed from the country end yard accessing the up engine line, which is in part the point you raise, 

Hope this isn't to confusing.

PS great work on the country/north end yard on/off shed roads, few grey hairs there I’m sure.

Just have to say how impressively you have overcome this monumental challenge, there are very few who would have persisted as you have, for me, you have raised the bar very high indeed.

well done buddy !!!

Hi Iain,

Fantastic work as always, and by far the most difficult section of the entire arrangement. So glad you went back over the double crossings on the north yard entry/exit roads, reliability will be key there, for both staying on the road and turnout operation. Templot is a great piece of software, hats off to Martin Wynne.

Best regards, plus a little inspiration from (as you would know) Douglas Doherty, all those years ago......

Hi Jol,

Best wishes for the new year.

Control panel looks the business, if possibly a little weighty, but plenty of room for a couple of handles if needed.

Thanks for taking the time to keep us all updated on your progress.

LMSR 6202 (R30134) Turbomotive

I recently received the Hornby LMSR 6202 model, via Hatton's. I was stunned as I opened the shipping package, and the product packaging, so well done by both Hornby and Hatton's to ensure it made the journey safely (Australia) it was a joy as it was opened up.

The actual model is beautiful at first glance, everything looked perfect, however on closer inspection of the cab detail and finish, I would say it was disappointing, points as follows:

the crude removal of the knee guard on the drivers side, is very poor, nearly upsetting, as it is a left over from the standard Princess Royal Class cab.

the reverser screw gear is incorrect for 6202, and would have been better left off this build.

When comparing this 6202 (R30134) with 6201 (R3709) the detailing and quality/finish of the 6201 cab does exceed that of the 6202.

Notwithstanding pricing difference of each product, these issues require attention on future batches to ensure brand sustainability, and loyalty. On an up note, there appears to be real progress regarding colour matching across the different materials which make up the model, this together with the promoted features, I am sure will be well received.

this is the 6202 as produced, and as referenced in the text above.

this is the 6201 cab as produced, with more attention to the smallbore piping, the reverse screw assembly is also better presented.

On 30/09/2023 at 02:13, Ian Hargrave said:

Couple of minor points. No shed code ?  And as I’ve posted ,there’s a possibility that on a running in turn with a local working …..yes I did see 46236 hauling 3 Stanier non corridors on a Shrewsbury-Crewe stopper….it might have used that top bracket.These are indeed very minor points on what appears to be Hornby refreshed. Thanks for the close ups of the works. My 6202 will be having an identical running in turn when it arrives 

 

 

Hi Ian, yes, you are correct, as constructed with boiler No 9100, 6202 didn’t have a shed code plate attached, although it appears to have had bolting points for such an attachment.

After the July 1936 Crewe heavy overhaul, 6202 was outshopped with a new boiler No 9236, after which, receiving a 1B shed code. A difficult item to spot due to the oil cooler fall plate being in the elevated position when running.

Daniel Kelham, of the LMS Modelling Society on Facebook posted some great 6202 and 6201 running footage on the Dewsbury Midland layout. There is also a 16sec clip with sound, which is perfect.
 

https://www.facebook.com/groups/1377846428917638/permalink/6640420405993521/?mibextid=W9rl1R

Definitely worth a look if your a member, or joining if you’re not.

On 01/10/2023 at 20:05, smr248 said:

 

I imagine that Bushey was ballasted.  I think that the timber was there on top to stop the trains being shot blasted by bits of ballast thrown up by the force of the water.

Quite right, regarding the ballasting, however the timbering would have served a number of purposes, firstly to prevent/mitigate ballast undermining from the large quantities of trough water ‘wash’ it would be exposed to every day, the timber would distribute the ‘wash’ evenly across the area, and to the cess drains. Secondly these water troughs required constant maintenance, these timbers would have delivered sound footing for permanent way gangs.

On 29/09/2023 at 00:39, adb968008 said:

 

So this weighs in at over 500g its a lot heavier than the other Princess models from Hornby, indeed its quite heavy for a rtr steam loco in general and this will have no issues with haulage… its similar weight to models like the Dapol Western and Hattons 66.

 

very smooth runner, on start up it moves at 0.02amp and maxes at 0.2amp with a great range of smooth speed control.

Hornbys made this model exceptionally well done.

 

I like the working lights, a bit of a flicker on DC.

 

 

 

 

one points a little contentious is the footplate, the footplate looks a standard backhead, I understood 6202 was fairly unique with 6 nozzles to control flow..

The tender has removable coal, and looks better loaded / sized / aligned than others in the past..

 

firebox flicker glow included..

and working lamp on the tender (both red and white).

look how crisp the printing is on the plates..

 

i’m also not sure about double reds in reverse

 

but this is a model I dont think anyone predicted to be on the horizon.

 

Really impressed with this, the livery is spot on, I love the shade matches 6231 made a few years ago, which I paint matched to a paint chip I have from a piece of railwayana. Mine will be sitting along side it.

 

So thats 3 top jobs Hornbys produced in steam of late.. the 9F, P2 and now this.. roll on the 2MT, Hornbys in the lead as far as steam goes imo, though their are definite challengers circling.

 

The parts bag includes a conversion kit to standard cylinder form.. (sorry only kidding to see if your still reading) … 

The parts bag has fireman and driver, includes front steps, front drawbar and shackle additionally includes 1 additional lamp, which can be fitted to the smokebox door (but no spare lamp irons if you want to remove the express headcode position lamps).

 

All I can say is more like this… 

At last, some facts, and value adding comments, unlike some in this thread to date. Thanks so much for taking the time to photo the retail version, and providing this ad hoc review.
Also, thanks for the follow up strip down and lighting information.

Mine is on its way too.

Hi Peter,

trusting you are in good health, hopefully the weather is treating you well also.

had to smile at your list of questions, couple of years in that lot 🙂 

to get the ball rolling, I’ve attached a link to a YouTube piece by Alex Scott, it’s very good first hand on shed experience.

let me know how you get on, I also have a book by Laurie Earl, Camden driver of the day, it’s aimed at a schoolboy age, but it’s an interesting read regardless, it detailed the preparation and operation of the royal scot to Glasgow.

Best wishes 

Stanley 

Hi Iain, 

yes still here, great progress, love the YouTube video clips. How is Vincent, have you caught up lately.

very very best regards 

Stanley

Hi Iain,

Thanks, and thank goodness it was built in BR days 😃 gets me off the hook.

The running session video looks fantastic, can’t get over how well everything looks and runs, definitely breaking some speed limits and making the bank look like something completely different to 1/70 🤣

as always 

stanley.

On 03/01/2023 at 05:55, 92220 said:

A New Year update from Camden, and all good wishes for 2023 to everyone who reads this, most of whom probably wonder whether I am on Pluto time if I am ever going to finish this.  
 

Anyway, here we go….

 

A couple of bits of building, and refinement of existing buildings.  The block below is such a characteristic feature of Primrose  Hill station in the period that I am modelling.  Yet, while there are many photos with it in, there seem to be almost none OF it.  It isn’t quite finished - there is a bizarre little square turret on the low part of the roof to add.  Then weathering.   The accompanying hut is also an improvement on what went before.  

 

 

 

The best photo I have of this was posted on this thread by Stanley (1B Camden) I think:

 

I’ve also started to get the station itself done.  Again, evidence isn’t easy to come by, but I hope this is a decent stab given the space I have, and it should provide a good backdrop to the main event.

 

Slaters platform canopy awning, and a scratch built platform and what I assume was a waiting room.  I have guessed at LM colour scheme, which will get a lot of weathering in due course as it was fairly down-at-heel by this time I think,  I have some stills from a YouTube video in NSE colours but only b&w fragments from the 60’s. I need some canopy supports,  York Modelmaking do some less ornate ones than those that were actually there, but I will probably go for these given it is only a background.

 

more to come…..

 

Iain

 

 

Hi Iain,

This is a beautiful model of the goods yard shunters amenities building, amazing how much detail is in such a small building.

 

The building was constructed to meet the very basic needs of the shunters and staff for goods arrivals and departures in and out of the yard. Prior to this the staff would use primrose hill station amenities, and prior to that the nearby signal box.

 

However over time this would have become a problem based on existing amenities and space hence this very unusual structure and its siting and purpose.

Being a very basic structure, and noting the flat roof of the main section, which you have captured so well, there was no cavity (loft space) for a water tank.

 

You would have noticed on the track side the number of small windows giving a hint to the purpose of this section of the building, possibly toilets and showers (haha), the adjacient breezeway (walkthrough) would support this.

 

The "bizarre little square turret" seems to have been altered over the life of the building, or has received some surface treatment that has changed the look of it.

But considering all the photo detail, tank overflow pipe, breeze blocks, and access hatch/cover/plate, it could be assumed, as you stated originally, to be an ablutions overhead water tank, which would also service the mess room, and possibly the adjacient admin offices, shunters lobby at the chimney end.

 

Quite a building in itself actually, where staff would access these facilities from the original second platform staircase entrance, instead of crossing the line, or coming in from the goods station proper.

 

Very best regards

Stanley

On 03/01/2023 at 05:55, 92220 said:

 

On 03/01/2023 at 05:55, 92220 said:

 

 

 

Great video clip of progress to date Iain, your care and attention to the permanent way has really paid off in terms of smooth running, beautiful point transitions and not a wobble anywhere, fantastic.

All the very best and thanks for sharing

Stanley

Great work on the electric motor bogie, very convincing, I need three, 00 gauge, six car sets, so very interested in your progress.

I also have had similar issues viewing forum jpegs and drawings, including most of the jpegs that have been posted in this thread, although the later posts (motor bogie, and motor bogie drawing) look great.
While there appears to be some work being carried out to rectify the drawing and photo problem, to date it’s been nearly a year.

I’ve attached a number of photos to keep the conversation going, I trust no copyright is being breached and they are referenced where possible. 

best regards

Terrible news, how upsetting for you guys

LMS 6202, tender No9003, it appears, as noted in the comment from the Hornby Magazine YouTube channel, that the tender under frame is incorrect regarding the tender steps, hopefully this will be resolved before release 

Hi Iain, fantastic video, trackwork looks great, nice sound track too.

Is that St Saviours steeple in the background, or am I just imagining it.

Love the cross border pushing past the local as they crest the climb, perfect start to any morning

On 04/08/2021 at 05:09, 92220 said:

 

A little research trip: now that my son lives a few minutes from Camden this sort of trip becomes a lot more straightforward.
 

I snapped a good number of useful photos, principally of architectural details etc.  I won’t flood the thread with all of them, but a couple bear posting I think.

 

This one is of the Dumpton Place wall after the render has been removed, referred to by Peter above.

 

 

I think it possibly shows that the doorway was once where the Pilates ad is hanging now.  I’m not certain but this part of the wall looks as if it was perhaps completely rebuilt rather than patched up or filled in.  Anyway, I will try to copy the photo in the post above when I finally get round to it.

 

More currently, there was a discussion about wall mounted derricks a few posts ago and I have searched extensively and in vain for information.  Then what do I find on the E wall of the Roundhouse?

 

 

 

I am leaning towards assuming that those on the Goods Shed wall were at least similar, and it gives me a plausible way to construct them.  
 

Any views welcome.

 

A somewhat more momentous update to follow soon.

 

Iain

 

Wow, fantastic, another puzzle resolved, well done Iain.

On 25/06/2021 at 04:11, CRHT1837 said:

Iain

While the engine shed is no more, some of the facilities that the drivers, firemen and other staff used remain. Stephenson House was, of course, the hostel for long-distance steam locomotive drivers/firemen, built in 1928. It has been preserved externally, despite a suspicious fire. Primrose Hill station was adapted in the mid 1950s to provide a club with beer cellar, bar and dance hall for BR staff. They did not have much time to enjoy this.

 

Peter

Hi Peter,

great to find you here, trust you are well, best regards Stanley 

On 02/08/2016 at 18:38, Guest said:

I've just had four Tillig 85327 361mm LH points delivered from Conrad in Germany and like 1BCamden (above) the tabs on two of them broken. In fact they're missing completely. Not that I fancied trying to solder something that small anyway. They'll need to go back. I find that Tillig points are fragile until laid, but once laid, they're absolutely fine. Although not correct for UK layouts (neither are Peco, to be fair), once laid and ballasted, the look is streets ahead of Peco Code 75. The large choice of radius and sheer variety also appeals. Yes, Peco is robust before and after laying, but not for me, alas. I've no desire to go down the "handbuilt" route... the pfaffing about just doesn't appeal. Tillig still win by a mile imho.

totally agree, they definitely look the part

Hi Iain,

Yes, Peters' book show a number of great examples of the surface hard stand both in front of, and behind the Goods Station. Peter and I corresponded during its development, it was a pleasure to be a part of the research team involved.

The transition from hardstand cobbles and inlaid (on edge rectangular bricks) pavers is shown to good effect on page 51, plus page 64 for a colour shot.

Being that the rails formed the apron to the hard stand, or as per the jpeg below it was formed along the signal cable trunking, you would recognise these photo locations.

21 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

 

That is, I think, Tamworth, so it's on the Trent Valley line - maybe a triangular diagram but otherwise sadly missing Brum!

 

EDIT: or possibly Lichfield Trent Valley, but same difference.

 

No. Definitely Tamworth.

Sorry about that, yes Tamworth Station

1 hour ago, Compound2632 said:

 

I will be looking for an identity change to an engine based at Monument Lane, Aston, or perhaps Walsall, c. 1902

LNWR 2-4-0 Improved Precedent No 1676 'The Nile' is seen standing at the up platform on a up semi-fast express service circa 1901, unfortunately the coal rails appear standard by this time, maybe Bachmann might do a parts supply

It’s possible that this engine could have seen Aston, or Walsall