pheaton

1015 as i understand it is often worked on by the apprentices at OOC, going back to the glorious (or not so depending on your point of view) 50 days sir Edward Elgar was returned to working order by the apprentices at laira. Problem is with heritage diesels is they are based around imperial threads and sizes, where as most modern stuff is all metric....for engineering minded amongst us a lot if the air fittings on 45149 use threads sizes and pitches that are now obsolete. However for teaching the principles of engineering a demic kettle or first generation diesel are ideal, sadly in this country there seems to be a lack of willing when it comes to this..... compare this with Germany however.....and you have a story of a country looking after its engineering heritage! where as the emphasis in the uk on steam preservation is to overhaul a boiler, the norm is to throw it away in Germany and start again! Theres not many places in the UK who will repair and refurbish a product that was last produced in the 60s! However phone voith and say you have a western transmission that's in need of a bit of TLC and its send it on over sir we will sort it for you.

Blimey....tyres don't look that clever either.... to give you some of you guys a further example of the sort of expenditure preservation goes... on the 24th of march we will be having 2 traction motors changed and a tyre turn completed on 26043, the charges for labour to lift 26043 and transport a bogie for tyre turning come to over 3k.....i then have to get an tyre turned owing to damage left over from BR days which has left 2 cavities (one exceeding 15mm) in no3 axle if that cant be turned out (and 26043 is not far from its last tyre turn) then the bill to replace all the tyres comes in at 25k! If i had to get the two defective motors repaired the bill would be around 8-9k! and 26043 is a working loco....(well it was....briefly )

Is it me or is that the incorrect font for the numbers? Looks very odd

Howes class 20 (both fitted and both capable of drive) Zimo Fitted class 20 with digitrains sound (both capable of drive) A few paxman fitted HST vids (howes sounds in both power cars) Brush 4 (Bachmann default sound) Another view of the Bachmann brush 4 and HST

That's nothing......click "sellers other items"......if you dare...

Couldnt agree more andy, and as you are finding, common simple every day parts are the hardest to find, i dread to think how difficult it was to get things like new windows frames and bezels for your machine (more a tiger fan myself though ) Diesel preservation is entering a critical phase now, just ask any 37 owner how they plan to get replacement brake cylinders, or a 50 owner getting a new KV50 load regulator........none of those lingering around any more, the only answer is build your own.... For all the locos you see running today there is probably a 3rd more that got preserved and then cut...... can of wroms supaned.....good post.....flying scotsman rings true here!

Kestrel does not exist anymore, shortly after the russians reverse engineered it, it was filled with concrete and used as a mobile deadweight, estimates had it finally cut in early to mid 90s sulzer 12ldas continued production by electroputere in romania until 1993, so spares are availiable....kestrels closest living relative is the DB class 232/233 a lot of kestrels technology appeared on this locomotive. engine isnt the issue on 015 you can fit a 47 engine and mate it to a crompton parkinson generator (no you cant use a 47 generator as class 45s are 220v machines) the issue is the electrical cubical and the auxiliary machines which were 220v (bar the blower motors) and are therefore unique to class 45s and 44s Am i againsed 015 being restored hell no but....a lot of people have absolutly no idea how difficult it is to return something back to life....

Thats called Serial rs232 emulation via USB....that's how the Hornby elite works... Yes your right about the barry wrecks but 298 is spot on steam locomotives have primitive engineering, and in terms of build are very easy to replicate parts for.......you go to brush and ask for price for a replacement FK-Mk2 (AVR) your looking at 10s of thousands of pounds for piece of kit no bigger than a desktop PC. That's before you get to the point of sourcing an overhauling the governor sourcing a set of intercoolers (which are unique to the 12lda28b so forget about using 47 equivalents). Anything is possible (if you've got a small countries GDP as disposable income )

No governer, no cam followers, no fuel gallery, no intercoolers......and no boiler room roof! resistor banks look shot.....got more chance of hell freezing over that this one running again

Oh I dunno robin....ive got my eye on that triple pump are you still involved with 45112?

This made me chuckle.... It would not be possible to put the internals of an eth peak into a non eth 45..... When the peaks were converted the following mods amongst others were done.... 1,) removal of the boiler 2,) removal of the water wanks 3,) removal of the steam pipework 4,) removal of auxilliary generator 5,) fitting of an eth alternator 6,) rewire the ETH alternator requires an extra cubical in order to work, ahhh but were not interested in eth....no your not but you do need your auxiliaries to work and also you need lights which on an eth peak run via rectification circuits on the eth alternator, the eth cucbical was placed in the position of the boiler. Also 45015 is missing amongst other things its reverser and most of its electrical cubical, including the field diversion banks, these two items are unique to peaks and you wont find them on a 47! No one in there right mind would sacrifice an eth peak for 45015....my stance is i hope it does get cut as id like a spare bogie and a few other items for 45149! Finally take a look here to get some idea on what it takes to restore a peak.... http://www.preserved-diesels.co.uk/engines/45149_ohaul_index.htm bear in mind 45149 only had 3000 hours on its engine when it was withdrawn! its not just a case of putting bits back in.....

Normally non runners have a realistic prospect of earning their keep...non runners accumulate rent and if you don't have the money to pay the rent that's what happens, a locomotive at a railway needs people to work on it....in that case and many others there's no one to work on it. Keeping a loco on a preserved railway isn't free! How do I know....im the secretary of a group that owns two locomotives....

45015 is a long and sorry case.... its now owned by the railway it resides on now as the result of a court case over unpaid rent..... 45015 is devoid of pistons and heads and also most of the electrical cubical and brake frame is missing, its also got damaged spring, and known to have asbestos around the boiler. Whilst most of the engine parts could be sourced from a class 47 most of the electrical cubical is unique to class 45s, bear in mind also all the electrical auxiliaries are also unique to class 45s as they are 220v. I don't suspect you will see this one running again....

*disclaimer* for people who dont like sucking eggs this thread isnt for you Where i hear you ask is a tutorial for creating sound projects in the lokprogrammer.....incidentally if you know of one DONT POST IT HERE I WONT BE IMPRESSED so i couldnt find one, and after investing a sum of money in a lokprogrammer i thought i had better put it to the use i intended it for and that's creating a sound project for 37905 and 37906..... But isnt there already sounds for the 37/9s......indeed there is legomanbiffo and howes models both do a decoder for 37/9s but and here's the but these 37s are mirlees engined not ruston, and its a ruston engine fitted to 37905 and 37906. whats a slug? a slug is the nickname given to 37/9s, 37/9s were born out of the vision of british rail to create a class 38 freight locomotive, and the engines under consideration for this project were a 6 cylinder mirlees MB275T and ruston paxman RK270T both locomotives were fitted with an alternator....hence the loud moan just before it starts up....locomotives with alternators always have start motors. (as you cant motor an alternator like you can a generator). They were called slugs because they were very slow the load up (increase engine speed) and thus alternator excitation. Many reasons for this the most often quoted being to eliminate turbo lag. On the outside they looked like regular 37s with a few detail differences and major changes to the roof, the mirlees engined 37s being the biggest since the whole engine room roof profile had to be changed to accommodate the engine. When rolled out of the works they all carried RF large logo livery but many were repainted. An example of the roof on 37901 Sound wise they were completely different from an un-silenced regular 37, with all of the 37/9s being known for the sewing machine silence! over time the exhaust silencers cracked, unfortunately the silencers were made by gloster saro (a division of the gloster aircraft company) and they were long out of business so instead it was decided to completely do-away with the silencer and vent the rather large single turbo straight to atmosphere! (a regular 37 has 2 turbos). Hence the reason you could be mistaken for thinking a tug boat was ascending stormy bank rather than a 37! So that's the history surrounding my little exercise! So where to start..... The lokprogrammer software looks daunting and there is no manual for version 4 to date, and version 4's sound sequencer contains a lot of differences to version 3. The lack of manual or tutorial meant i had to resort to looking at one of the existing sound profiles on the ESU website to grasp how it worked. Now before i start waffling...i will make a lot of errors in my understanding, i might not have the right interpretation but my aim with this thread is not the be the oracle on sound sequences, im no expert ill leave that to likes of pauliebanger legomanbiffo and the various vendors of the quality sound projects that run round on many layout up and down the country...... i expect to be corrected and told im wrong, but in doing so i hope others will learn quicker whats taken me bloody ages!!! So on the esu website you have a list of availiable projects you can download and happily place on your decoders... http://www.esu.eu/en/downloads/sounds/generation-4/loksound-v40-oem/ AHHH but there all german.....yes they are however......even ze germans have class 66s.....and most of know what one of those sound like So....when you load the class 66 file into the lokprogrammer when you select sound on the left you get the screen shown above, now starting clockwise from the top left this is how i understand it to work, and experts feel free to correct.... Top Left I understand this to be the sound slots, and basically i seem to see that each sound slot corresponds to a function eg drive is F1 and Horns in this case are F3 and F4, if the sound slot is left empty the function can be used for other things, lights and smoke units perhaps.... Top Right Contains the current loksound template library which is provided with the program, navigating through the folder structure contains a range of sounds that come free with the lokprogrammer and also with various updates ESU make available (since i have had it there have been 3 updates, you are free to use these sounds on your decoders. Bottom Left Allows you to browse for more sound files you might have on you local computer Bottom Right contains the sound files in use with your existing project, if you start from scratch this is blank but you can drag and drop files from local storage in the bottom left or the templates in the top right, as you can see from my screenshot it contains the sounds for the 66 project. Now the reason i chose the 66 project is simple....1, ive no idea what the different sounds are on the various german loco's 2, the vast majority of german locos are diesel hydraulic, where as im interested in a diesel electric and the two behave a lot differently in terms of sound.... 3, a 66 is very familiar so for example if i hear a NEH NEH NEH NEH NEH and a splutter i know its starting up.....if i hear ying ying ying ying ying ying ying, i know its idling i could go on but i think you get the picture..... so how do the list of sounds in the bottom right equate to the sound coming of the decoder, if we double click "drive" in the top left we see the contents of the sound slot in its layout..... Above we have the contents of drive (which is the bulk of sounds on the decoder) drive is the engine sounds acceleration sounds and deceleration sounds, drive is not things like the horn or the compressor or the fan. ill try and explain those a bit later above is a part of the project (it doesn't fit on one screen) and sound projects can be as simple or as complex as you like..... A neat feature of version 4 is the "sound slot simulation" and this allows you to simulate the sound as if you were using the decoder, for this to work the sound layout must be valid, but you can increase the speed and slow it down like a model train to check how your sounds behave... Note to the sound layout there are 3 elements State Transition Container A state is a single entity (or sound) a container can "contain" many states an transitions with itself, and a transition is the advance between a state or container based on predefined settings (if statements) but a transition doesn't need these statement it can simply advance to next state or container after the current one is complete based on the priority and or statements applied to the transition..... Still with me ??? for example....... in the screenshot above we see a transition (the arrow) from "mute" (pretty self explanatory) to MS (mute to sound) the statement applied to this transition is 1:"f=true" 1: - being the priority F= true basically meaning if F1 is pressed the reason its F1 is...because we are occupying sound slot 1 MS is typically used for the start up sound....so in real life if press F1 and that's my transition statement my class 66 will go through its engine start procedure.... because if i double click MS i see the following Here you see that MS actually plays 6 wav files one after the other, we know its one after the other because there is a line through them and they have no statements applied so its the simplest container. Incidentally if we wanted to test each of those "states" we can highlight one and press the play button towards the top of the screen and this will play the wav file associated with the state What else can i show you on transitions.... I'm not going to explain all possibilities of transitions that isn't the purpose of the post but there about 10 i believe another commonly used transition is based on speed and requested speed Have another look at the screenshot this time pay attention to transition between "S" and "SD" S is ESU speak for IDLE and SD is sound to drive or to you and me the sound played when you go to idle to the first of an unlimited (potentially) number of acceleration sounds (within memory constraints). We see the following transitional statements 2: req >0 spd >0 2: - priority 2 (follows 1 ) req >0 - Requested speed step is greater than 0 spd >0 - Speed is greater than 0 so in real life that means once you turn the knob on your controller and if the model moves the decoder will make the transition from idle to the SD (first acceleration sound) so in the case of your 66 it will go from ying ying ying ying ying ying ying ying to yingyingyingyingyingyingyingying So having explained in very very basic detail you can analyse the rest of the project to see how its structured! Whats this got to do with a slug? lets simplify things......drastically!!!!! by using the 66 project i can take that knowledge and build the above albeit very simplified, and by obtaining recordings and running them through audacity (another thread perhaps) i can come out with the following..... This is a where a special thanks goes to "kevpeo" he managed to get the sound project to actually play files.....as i had a CV setting in my project (yet to be identified) which was actually preventing the files from playing on the decoder! A project recorded with genuine 906 sounds (bar the shutdown) that sounds well sort of reasonable.....its on a non bass reflex speaker at the moment inside the 37 body using the Bachmann supplied enclosure...... The aim of the thread is to educate those interested based on not only my views but the experts as well if they want to add anything

MGRs An example of legomanbiffo sound, fitted with a smaller bass reflex speaker under the sound grills in a Hornby class 56 (the spool up of the ruston paxman is a joy to behold over and over again) 2 Original Bachmann sound quipped 37s with stock speaker under the grill (my last 2 that have escaped a reblow) Hornby (resprayed 60) fitted again with stock Hornby sound and speaker Heljan 58 fitted with howes sound and a bass reflex speaker in the acres of room available inside the loco

Your facing No2 end therefore the No2 compressor is pretty much right next to you in the nose! also bear in mind peaks have those stonking great grills where as a brush 4s body is enclosed so much more sound to be had on a peak..... the fan yes its loud, but then it does have a 250amp fuse its the second largest motor on the locomotive second only to the traction motors.

Both of these are howes with a speaker fitted directly under the grill I have a mixture of Howes, SWD and Zimo sounds for my 37s but I agree about the comments on legomanbiffo ive got a 56 and 31 with sounds from him and the 56 is awesome

Few Vids (edited for SRMans request ) All 4 Bachmann 47s with Howse Sound Fitted directly under the grills Heljan Class 26 again with Howse sound fitted under the fan grill 37901 (hence the odd sound) fitted again with a howse sound decoder and also the correct rood Mod 2 of the 47s seen earlier

Its very very true that kettles with there "primitive" engineering will outlive diesels in the preservation world, after spending the last 8 years of my life on 45149 i can honestly say there are parts that have been extremely difficult to procure in order to restore 45149 back to operational condition, and indeed when 45149 is back in service (next 8-12 or so weeks) after a 25 years of sleep, efforts will switch to obtaining parts to keep the locomotive in service. And overhaul of spares. Without the co-operation of other groups 45149 would never be in the position its in! Of all the parts needed to keep 149 in service for many years to come, some are very simple (like air compressor valves and gaskets) some are very complicated (AVRs and various relays) some of which modern equivilents exist but others do not exist or would require extensive and expensive modification to work effectively. Thats before we come to the engine....a peak like any other locomotive has consumables, how long will we be able to obtain piston rings and bearings, and what if a head suffers a fracture? im sure classic diesel locomotives will keep running for a while yet, but steam locomotives although more costly will be able to keep running for much longer.....even if the only original part is the chimney New build preserved diesel electric....sorry im a little skeptical.....walk around any diesel electric and the complexity despite the age is very very daunting!

47s and 45s 44s and 46s engines to all intents and purposes are exactly the same. 47s have a 12lda28c Engine 45s and 46s have a 12lda28b engine.... a 45 and 46 has smaller intercoolers and is only 2500hp, a 47 has larger intercoolers and was originally set to deliver 2750hp but this was derated to 2580hp when stress fractures were foun in the late 60s. A 44 has a 12lda28A engine and does not have intercoolers and is only 2300hp, 47 heads pistons and liners and turbos are all interchangeable (on 45149 we have all 47 heads) with peaks, as is the heat exchanger and oil filter pack, and most of the water and oil fuel pipe work. Other key differences are 46s and 47s on having brush electrical equipment also have an hydrostatic cooling fan where as 44s and 45s have an electric cooling fan......however some 47s also have an electric fan 47404 being one.... DO 47s and 45s and 44s and 46s sound the same..... YES AND NO whilst peaks and 47s share exactly the same design of silencer there are key differences in the way the engine operates which does affect the sound. 45/1s and 47s with electric heat have had the engine idle speed raised to 384RPM instead of 250rpm of a non electric heat loco....much faster revving however all sulzer 12lda's top out at 750RPM so if your loco is a 45/1 it needs to have a faster idle sound (like the howes one which is based on 45133) or a 47/7 the Bachmann is based on a 47/4 which is an exception to the rule, 47/4s i believe create electric heat off the main generator rather than the ETH alternator/generator so im not sure if the idle speed was raised 45/0s 46s 44s and 47/0s and 47/3s and im sure some other sub classes of 47s were either steam heat or NO heat which means the engine idle speed is 250rpm. peaks also have a much much louder triple pump....very distinctive when then engine is not running where as the triple pump on a 47 is much quieter and although it has no impact on sound a 44 and 45 are also 220v machines, everything else on BR was 110v hence the reason 45s and 44 had 4 full size battery boxes. 96 2v cells compared to 48 cells on a 46 and 47 and everything else on BR 45s and 44s also had a very distinctive fan noise as well. 44s 45s and 46s were also never fitted with spirax valves (tick tick tick tick tick) although some have been "retrofitted" in preservation again 45149 is one of them. (for info the spirax valves function is to remove water from the air system, they were commonly placed at the lowest point so the water would collect above them, then every second or a so a valve opens automatically letting the water out of the system. 45s 44s and 46s have a manual water trap which collects water and is required to be drained frequently. if your ever at the GWR let me know im happy to show you the difference in sounds of a 45 and a 47 31s and 37s again have exactly the same engine (12csvt) bar the intercoolers....a 31 has no intercoolers and is 1460hp and 37 has intercoolers and is 1750hp, they sound completely different because the electrical equipment (31 being brush) and a 37 being the "evil empire" (english electric) loads the engines up in different ways to each other, a 31 is a very smooth transition to full power and a 37 with its much cruder electrical control gives you a good growl if you ask for it. did you also know that 56s and 58s are actually the same engine again as a 37 with more pistons and different turbo and silencer setups.....a 56 without silencers sounds very very similar to a 37.

http://offer.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewBids&_trksid=p4340.l2565&rt=nc&item=130691066631 kerching.......ive got 8 of these beggars am i missing something?

And 45114 features the same incorrect roof.

The retooled peak is fitted with lights which is a welcome addition....ironically using modern tooling methods it wouldnt be that difficult to correct the roof, but as 45/1s were a late 70s product i suspect Bachmann went with the steam heat version due to its wider appeal....however as commented the roof detail particularly around the engine room doors is quite basic, and its not to true scale the doors look far too small... the bodyside grills lack depth and the bogies could do with a little more relief..but im not dissapointed with my purchase, it looks like a peak at the end of the day....could be better but i dont think anyone can name a mass produced ready to run model without its faults.

Any retool would require the following corrections.....as 45106 is an ETH fitted peak.... boiler room roof would need correcting....and the boiler room grills would need plating over...not sure why they seemed to model the ETH peaks still with the exhaust port and safety valves....none of the 45s were dual heat...they do supply blanking plates for the filler caps which goes some way to correcting it....also Bachmann seem to think 45s have only got 1 set of air pipes as 45120 is only supplied with holes and pipes for the red air pipes...

Ohm Values? Thats covered here http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/39510-speaker-ohm-values/