nest
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Posts posted by nest
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Hi everyone
Having found some time in my week, baseboard construction has finally begun in my usual slow way. I will share some photos when I have something more to share.
I never says this was going to be quick....
Nestor
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Actually, no!
If you want the best exposure to the sun (as we need here in the UK), you plant the vines north-south, on a south-facing slope. Planting east-west (like one of my varieties) still works OK but then leads to difficulties with using a tractor..
Down there in Languedoc-Roussillon, there is, especially nowadays, more sunshine than you want or need. So you just plant the vines in whatever way seems most convenient. And around the area that Nestor is modelling, the vineyards either side of the line are on reasonably flat ground.
I am looking forward to him having the space to model some of the more scenically spectacular parts of the route, but there are no vines at those altitudes. A personal view, but probably the best station to model on the route is St Martin Lys with its associated stone (powder) traffic. Need to work out how much space it would take but it is a site tightly confined by the gorge and river. (Edit to add: After a quick look at Google Earth, it needs 4.31 metres to model St Martin Lys between the two tunnel mouths if working to scale at 1:87. But it could probably be done in 3.3 metres without the compression being too much.)
In terms of vine direction, I'll copy the pattern of the ones that are there which seem to be more or less at eight angles to the railway so facing south-ish.
When I have far more space, I'd love to do a model of the lapradelle complete with the viaduct over the river and main road. But space is not expansive unfortunately.
Nestor
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Hi guys
Where all this was leading...
Nestor
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Hi all
Right here we go then...
Initial Ideas
Thanks to my parents, I have taken many a holiday in France, Spain and various other hotter places than this as they always felt they should well travelled children. Several of these holidays involved trips to the French side of the Pyrenees. For whatever reason, I fell in love with this part of the world as it has a charm all unto it's own. One holiday in particular was to the hamlet of Lapradelle in the commune of Puilaurens. This is sited towards the end of a valley in the Pyrenees between the larger settlements of Axat and Rivesaltes. We stayed in a house on the side of slope overlooking much of the centre of the commune. Part of the view was of a railway viaduct on the line that used to run from Carcassonne to Rivesaltes. These days, the line is operated as far as the town of Quillan with a tourist railway taking passengers from Axat to Rivesaltes. Naturally, I managed to persuade the rest of the family that a trip on part of the tourist line was a must and it was dually taken. It was a pleasant ride from Axat as far as yet another small town called Saint-Paul-de-Fenouillet and then back again. All the time during the trip, I kept on thinking it would make a lovely model and upon returning home to Brighton, I drew up several schemes for layouts but none every came to fruition and other projects took over.The Terror Of Youtube
As I said, none of these plans every came to fruition but the idea still stuck at the back of my head and a passing interest in French Layouts was born, Pempoul by Gordon and Maggie Gravett being a particular favourite. However, it wasn't until I was flicking through various YouTube videos on railway modelling that something happened. I stumbled across the videos of a chap called Renaud Yver. He has built a rather fabulous HO layout in his home in France and produces some pretty good "how to" videos on various subjects. I know they're good as I only speak a tiny bit of French but still understand what he is talking about! It was after watching several of these videos that something clicked in my mind. I had been thinking about how to fill the potential 8 or so feet of space available for some time and suddenly everything just fell into place.Plans Are Drawn Up
The first plan to be drawn was not of something that I am likely to be able to build till I have a heck of a lot more space but exists as one of those "if only" layout designs I'm sure we all come up with from time to time. After this I then started on a plan for an 8ft layout based on the line that had stirred something in me back in 20-whenever-it-was. Having done a little research into the entire line (Ligne de Carcassonne à Rivesaltes for those wondering) and asked for advise and help on this forum, I felt confident enough to plow ahead with a firm plan. The plan is for a small passing station similar to that at Lapradelle somewhere between Caudiès-de-Fenouillèdes and Saint-Paul-de-Fenouillet. There is a small road called Bordé Crémade between these two settlements so I have decided to name my station Gare De Crémade. It will have a station building similar to ones used throughout the line which was a fairly standard design. Two variations were used throughout the line, one was a smaller design for the lesser settlements and another was a larger. Mine will be of the smaller design. There will be a minimal goods yard with a goods loop as was typical on the line and indeed in much of France. There is enough to Ready-To-Run stock available from the likes of Jouef and others to give me enough to run. Unlike much of France, track of the Compagnie des Chemins de fer du Midi (the company who built the line) uses Bullhead rail. As this is one of the more unique characteristics of the line I intend to go down this route, possible using the new Peco Bullhead track (I know it's not strictly correct for HO but once scenic-ed I think it'll look fine!).Final Plan
Here's the plan. The first picture shows a slightly more technical plain track layout whereas the second includes some scenery sketching to give a general idea of what will be beyond the fence. The scribbled lines will be vineyards. Total size will be (just about) 8ft by 2ft split into to 4ft by 2ft boards. Small and simple as I don't have a huge amount of time on my hands so I need something that will fit around work. Apologies for the random notes around the design but this has just been photographed from my sketch book as this is how I plan layouts, no fancy technology here!
Sorry this is all a bit wordy but this is also forming the basis of a series of articles for my club's newsletter. This is all going to take quite some time and updates will be slow as I have to fit this round work and various other commitments so apologies for that but when there is stuff to update with I will do so!
Cheers
Nestor
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As Voie Libre had drawings in latest issue, I thought I woud have a go at a 3D prnted model of a small station building. Even without brick wall detail the roof tiles slowed down my computer. I think this is slighty smaller that others, but I may use it for a 3mm/ft scale model I have started(one of many), mainly using 15mm wargaming buildings.
Hopefully I will be able to adapt design for other uses.
Very nice. It looks very smartly straight!
Nestor
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Just to say that the current (No 17 supposedly May 2018 but arrived July) copy of Rails d'Autrefois issued by the Cercle Historique du rail francais has an article on this line.
Oh I'll keep an eye out for that. I have to say, I'm surprised (pleasantly) by the level of interest in this line. At some point I'll make my way back to that part of France. Planning a layout on it at the moment will have to surfice at the moment.
Nestor
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You can get kits for these buildings here: (I’m not an agent or suchlike)
https://www.architecture-passion.fr/v16/55-midi-ancienne-compagnie-du-midi
Oh that's interesting thanks!
Also, I have seen that particular forum, was very useful as well
Nestor
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The line is still in bullhead throughout. It's an important part of its Midi character.
Some of my friends in AMHVA used to buy SMP bullhead track from me. Because it has thinner sleepers than Peco, it is easier to cut the sleepers about to represent the rather rough and ready nature of the French pine sleepers.
I'll see if I can touch base with a friend in Esperaza who had quite an extensive layout laid in modified SMP.
I'll look into SMP as well. As I said before, this is all very much still in the planning stage. I've only seen SMP used in British outline layouts so I'd be interested to see it used on an HO layout.
Nestor
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Ah, without wishing to open a huge can of worms, it is the sort of thing I would notice...Something I have seen French modellers do is use code 100 for mainline and code 75 for sidings as it emphasises the lighter rail used in sidings. Not sure if most people would actually notice if it was bullhead or flat bottom. I feel it is going down the rivet counting path .
If the prototype had bullhead, it would be nice to model it with bullhead, atleast for me anyway. It is all personal preference of course! Plus, I am a self confessed rivet counter, on my own layouts at least....
Nestor
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I imagine once detailed and placed within a scene it will look quite passable.
Until starting on this project, I had always assumed the French only used flat bottom rail.
Nestor
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One quite interesting feature (going slightly off topic) is the use of Bullhead rail. I wonder if the new Peco Code 75 bullhead would be appropriate for HO, perhaps with a little modification of the sleeper width?
Does anyone have experience of doing Bullhead in HO?
Nestor
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In fact looking through quickly now, the list includes pretty much everything I am looking for!
Thank you very much
Nestor
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Some references
Midi Infrastructure Electrical substation Loco Revue Hors Série Chemin de Fer Réels 3
Midi Infrastructure Catenary Loco Revue 2000 February 22
Midi Infrastructure Catenary Loco Revue 2000 March 44
Midi Infrastructure Catenary Loco Revue 2000 Hors Série 5
Midi Infrastructure Crossing keepers cottage - branch line Pyrennees Loco Revue Hors Série 2000 2
Midi Infrastructure Overhead hoist Loco Revue 1987 January 23
Midi Infrastructure Small loading dock Loco Revue 1993 February 96
Midi Infrastructure Ogive catenary RMF 1969 October 413
Midi Infrastructure Station Building 2 door plus goods shed Loco Revue 2004 January 93
Midi infrastructure third rail Loco Revue 1948 June 191
Midi infrastructure catenary Loco Revue 2006 November 30
Midi infrastructure Water tower Voies Ferrées 1983 September 76
Midi infrastructure buffer stops made by Eailway and Atelier Debelleyme RMF 2007 March 62
Midi infrastructure Maison de PN Loco Revue 2007 August 59 centrefold
Midi infrastructure 2 track engine shed Loco Revue 2008 August 38
Midi infrastructure 2 track engine shed Loco Revue 2008 September 38
Midi infrastructure Water tower Ferrovissime 2008 September 10
Midi infrastructure water crane Ferrovissime 2008 September 10
Midi infrastructure small workshop Ferrovissime 2008 September 10
Midi infrastructure Water tower Ferrovissime 2008 October 24
Midi infrastructure train shed Ferrovissime 2009 July 20
Midi infrastructure Level crossings Loco Revue 2011 September 50
Midi infrastructure Bullhead track Loco Revue 2012 April 54
Midi infrastructure Crossing keepers cottage Ferrovissime 2013 January 24
Midi infrastructure Crossing keepers cottage Ferrovissime 2013 September 60
Edited because the forum software converts tables to a continuous string.
All of the above have drawings that should allow a model to be built.
That's extremely helpful thankyou!
I'll take a look through.
Nestor
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Meanwhile, on the next line south, somewhere interesting to stay. There is at least one other converted station in the region doing B&B, Chalabre iirc.
Looks wonderfully twee!
The plan I have is for a stopping point once it's broken out into the vineyards between Lappradelle and Rivesaltes. A building like the one at Lapradelle or Espira is exactly what I'd be looking at modelling.
Cases-de-Pene might be the best option. Just outside the village, so among vines. And there is a natural scenic break to the west where the line goes behind the houses that front the main D617 road (most of the village, including the Mairie, is on the other side of the river). Just east of the station is a quarry with rail-served sidings although I don't think that was there in your 1950s timeframe.
Edit to add: At least one of the stations had sidings into the local wine co-operative. That might be an excuse to run some of those nice old wine tank wagon models that various manufacturers have done.
Its another location which looks to have a very similar station building. If I had a lot more space, a model including the quarry (bending history never hurts in modelling) would be rather nice.
Looks like a fairly standard(possibly classic) French station building. Windows probably of standard size, so probably could use that as a guide. Roof pitch is often something that is different, depending on local weather system. This area looks pretty similar to the area I know to the northeast of Carcassonne. Slightly further north and it is slates not tiles on roof.
Quite a few drawings of similar station buildings in Loco Revue and Voie Libre. Worth having a look in issues online at http://fr.1001mags.com/magazine/loco-revue
Has not been updated for a while but still plenty to search through.
Thanks for the link, I'll take a look. I'm still quite definitely a novice in terms of the French modelling scene as everything I've done up until now has more or less been exclusively British so links like this are invaluable.
Much appreciated.
When the plan is a little more developed, I will start a proper thread for it.
Nestor
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Thought folks might find this photo interesting. French tourist lines can be very different from our preservation outfits.
That said, even if the passenger vehicles are a bit odd, the 63000 looks rather good in that livery.
Yes I remember thinking that when I rode the line. All the stations where in pretty sorry state with buildings looking pretty run down and tracks over grown. This still had a certain charm of its own though. The emphasis was definitely on the tour side of things rather than any kind of UK style preservation effort.
This photo confirms that Lapradelle-Puilaurens is the small two-door variant with attached goods shed. https://www.flickr.com/photos/116072983@N04/29080740402
Yes I had seen that particular photo. Very atmospheric little spot. The plan I have is for a stopping point once it's broken out into the vineyards between Lappradelle and Rivesaltes. A building like the one at Lapradelle or Espira is exactly what I'd be looking at modelling.
Nestor
I had seen the first one but not the other two. Thanks!
Nestor
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I am sure that I have seen some. But I can't remember where.
I am down there early next month and could take some suitable photos to make drawings from. If I remember to get my Disto back from the wife, I can also take some key measurements.
There are iirc two different sizes. Would you be after the smaller or the larger?
Quite simple rectangular buildings so easy enough to scratchbuild.
That would be of great help!
I have been looking at the smaller, particularly the building at Lappradelle. The simplicity has a certain charm.
I have a few photos, found online but I'm especially interest in straight on profile pictures and measurements. I did have a load of photos of the station and the line in general from a holiday a few years back but can't seem to locate them... A pain as it's a lovely line.
Nestor
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Hello again
Following on from my previous thread asking for general information, I have a new request for assistance!
I am planning a layout based on the Ligne de Carcassonne á Rivesaltes and am thinking about the buildings for such a layout. I realise finding drawings of the specific buildings may be a little tricky so a more general request instead...
I am wondering if anyone has or knows of anywhere where I may be able to find drawings for some of the more rural railway buildings of the Compagnie des Chemins de fer du Midi? I know there is a ready-to-plant building that would fit quite well but I am quite keen to build my own so any assistance would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks guys
Nestor
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Hi again guys
Have just stumbled across this thread. It's in French but I get the general jist of what is being said... I knew I should have paid more attention in French lessons at school!
http://forum.e-train.fr/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=9312&hilit=quillan
It includes amongst many photos, a track plan for Quillan and a drawing for the goods shed. However, if anyone has drawings of any of the other good sheds or station buildings then that would too be much obliged?
It does appear to be universally recognised as a really very lovely bit of railway. One of the highlights of that particular holiday was our view of the Viaduct at Lappradelle from the house in which we were staying. I will try and see if I can find any of the photos from that trip.
Nestor
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There was a reasonable amount of mineral traffic (mainly talc) from a location between Quillan and Axat. When we stayed at my god-daughter's godmother's ancestral pile at Axat, back in 1994 or '95, there was what seemed to be a daily working by a couple of BB66000. There was evidence, in the goods yard at Axat, of recent timber traffic. There were further indications of mineral traffic at a couple of locations on the way towards Rivesaltes.
The railway almost envelops Axat, with a large, stone-built viaduct at the southern end, followed by a station on a ledge cut into a hillside. Someone obviously once had ambitions for this line.
Thank you very much. Plenty of relatively interesting traffic then.
I remember when I was there (staying in Lappradelle) being very impressed with the general architecture of the route, especially the bits round Axat and the viaduct across Lappradelle.
My plan would be for a small stopping point beyond Lappradelle when the line is running through the much flatter vineyards towards Rivesaltes. All in the pipeline at the moment but good to know there is plenty of interest to be had in the traffic on the route.
Cheers
Nestor
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It certainly is. And the bit west of Axat towards Quillan even more so.
In theory, you should be able to do Carcassonne to Quillan by train but mostly replaced by buses these days.
I lived for many years just north of Estagel, so it's my local railway.
I don't know all that much but could put you in touch with people who do. In particular, the AMVHA club members who had (and possibly still have) a layout based on the line.
As regards locos, in that period, mainly the Baldwin 62000 class diesels which have been available from a couple of manufacturers. And then, later, the 66000 class mainly.
Passenger service stopped before WW2 between Quillan and Rivesaltes.
Oh great thanks, any help is much abliged.
In terms of anything I built I will be extending passenger services through to the 50s just due to what is available stock wise.
I will certainly have a look at said club.
Nestor
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Hello everyone
I wonder if anyone is able to help. I've been half thinking about a layout based on the line from Carcassonne to Rivesaltes in the south of France having been taken by both the atmosphere of French railways and the area surrounding the edges of the Pyrenees.
Beyond the French Wikipedia page on the line, in struggling to find much information on the history of the line. Perhaps a long shot BUT if anyone has any photos or information regarding stock (especially that used during the 1950/60s) I would be extremely grateful.
Having ridden from Axat to Maury, I can safely say it is a rather splendid bit of railway!
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A small edition to my very occasional posts on this site
Nestor
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But not when DESH or Sparky were lads...
No one remembers when DESH was a lad...
Nestor
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The club will miss you terribly, not least as I'm being roped into editing the newsletter again... You better keep sending articles!
All the best
Nestor
A First Stab At French Modelling
in French Railways
Posted
Hi guys
I was going to use Peco long radius. As it's an overall impression I'm going for, I decided these would be a fine option.
I'm currently using the little time I have by having a stab at building a station building. When I have a longer slab of time I'll carry on with the baseboards.
Cheers
Nestor