84B Oxley

One major point to look out for is that the front footplate section on a real Fairburn is not the same width as the main footplate, I think it has a taper. The DJH kit has a front section the same width as the footplate. I have also read that the cylinders and bogie/pony trucks are inaccurate but can't comment on that, not having built one. Some of the earlier kits were totally devoid of injectors, my 84000 was one, not sure about the Fairburn. Being a DJH kit it will go together well. Hope this helps Jeff

Chris Some sound advice for you there from several sources. You will find that the ABC mechanism will run beautifully-the Maxon is a coreless motor (you probably know that already) and is very free-running, it has a built-in slight flywheel effect so the model will stop very smoothly. A sound choice! Jeff

The Tower Models 1361 looks really nice............until you look at it closely. The one that passed through my hands recently had left hand lead on the driving wheels! (Of course, this could be correct but somehow I doubt it.) It's a very nice runner though. I too am awaiting a package from New Milton to go in my 16XX Pannier. Postie not been yet. Jeff

Chris The 'strange etched parts' are the draincock operating levers, the draincocks themselves pass through the two holes and then into the two in the bottom of the cylinder. The part is then bent at 90 degrees behind the 'cocks so that the wider part of the etch is visible. Hope this helps. I've tried photographing mine but I don't have a lens that will get me close enough to show you. I too used some of Warren's draincocks and agree that they are superb. His castings are as good as you can get, but beware of being fooled by them into thinking that his etchings are as good. They're not! I'm on the home straight with one of his 16xx kits and it would make your experiences with the 1366 seem like a walk in the park. For a start off there are no half etched rivets and also very little in the way of detailing etches, such as sandbox operating rods. There is a lot of scratchbuilding involved. Warren himself is a really pleasant, friendly and helpful bloke, he's been around O Gauge for many years and is at most, but not all shows. You're doing a good job with your model and will end up with one that you can be proud of. It's one of those that you can say that you have built in spite of the kit, not because of it! Been there, done that many times. Jeff

Chris Nice work on the window bars, now you need to bend a few to look like the real thing! (Only joking) On a more serious note, I see that you have put the sandbox filler lids on the shelf at the rear of the cab, as the instructions tell you. However, I think that they were actually situated on the cab floor directly above the sandboxes themselves. There are plenty of photos in the Pannier Papers book that I have seen lurking in the background of some of your photos that show what I mean. See what you think. I would love to access the real 1369 to investigate further. Anyone else out there have any ideas on the subject? Apologies for throwing a potential (minor) spanner in your works. Jeff

Chris I had to have two goes at the tanks on my1367. Fortunately, mine had not been pre-formed in any way. The bunker is a lot easier, honest. And don't worry too much about the odd irregularity in the tanks, have a look at a real one, they're far from perfect! (Just like mine.) It all depends on whether you want a showcase model or one that looks like the real thing, I know which I prefer. My next pannier tank is a Warren Shephard 16xx. Cunningly, I got Warren to prefold the tanks for me as they are in quite thick brass. A lot of riveting to do and no half etched marks, though Warren does provide a riveting template to help. Keep the faith. Jeff

Chris I asked for that one! Usually, I just let the part cool naturally but I have been known to quench it, I can't tell any difference but doubtless an engineer or a metallurgist would tell you that one is right and one is wrong. And they might not even agree with each other......... Jeff

Chris Personally, I use a small blowtorch in the workshop but there's no reason why you can't use the gas hob. No mess is created in the process, just hold the part in the flame (with a pair of pliers) until it glows a dull red colour, you would only need to anneal the part of the cabside which will be curved. Some people would advise quenching the part in cold water, others would advise natural cooling. I sit on the fence..... Jeff

Chris If you anneal the top of the cabsides you will make it easier to form the curves. Another thing which might help would be to temporarily solder some scrap etch over the cab door openings to prevent them being distorted when you form the curves at the top. I didn't feel the need to do that on 1367 but I had more confidence in my abilities than you seem to have in yours. And that's not a criticism-been there, done that! Jeff

Martyn Guilty as charged. Jeff

Chris Persevere and you will get there-it's called a learning curve! I have fitted working inside motion to some of my pannier tanks, where it is visible, but on 1367 it would be pointless as the gap under the boiler is minimal. My next Pannier will be a 16XX and that will have working motion. Fitting the body to the chassis shouldn't give you any problems with shorting, depends where you fit the pickups. Mine are under the chassis so the body can't interfere. The only shorting from the body could come if it touches both terminals of your motor. Incidentally, if you are going to Telford on the Sunday I will have my pannier on display on the North West O Gauge Modellers stand. You can then see its imperfections. Just like the real ones! (That's my excuse.....) Jeff

I've gradually come to the conclusion that standardisation just meant that almost any part would fit almost any loco. Any class may have started off identical but as they went through the Works I think they just took anything that would fit from the parts bin! Makes life more interesting/annoying/challenging/frustrating (choose your own word) for us modellers. And gives the rivet counters a field day! Jeff

Chris Unlikely to have changed much, if at all, in that period. Its last visit to Swindon Works was from 27/3/59 to 2/6/59. From the photographs of it that I have it had the overflow pipes from the injector running through holes in the running plate, just in front of the cab, rather than going over the outside of the running plate, as with '67 and '69. But you've probably spotted that already! '67 also had a different pattern of tank vents from '68 and '69. Standardisation?.... Jeff

Chris I used JPL fittings-they weren't specifically for the 1366 but suited it. I just went to the shop and rooted through stuff until I found what I wanted. Your other option would be Warren Shephard, just google him and you will find his site, he is an extremely helpful chap. Fittings for the 54/64/74 tank would, I think, be just as suitable, or possibly, and don't quote me, the 16xx tanks. Hobbyhorse Developments is another possibility. You are lucky that the GWR standardised so much! Jeff

Simon Yes, that sounds about right. Happy to help and I'm sure Chris doesn't mind! Jeff

Simon Thanks for your kind comments too! Overall width of the motion brackets on my model is 60mm, from the outside of the vacuum pump to the inside of the adjacent frames is 18mm. Hope this helps. Jeff

Chris I'd forgotten about the gland castings..............and 60009 was very nice, thank you. Somehow GWR Green suits A4s best I think (others may/will disagree!) Thinking back, I didn't feel the need for any tube in the cylinders to support the piston rods, the stroke is pretty short so it isn't vital but certainly wouldn't do any harm if you did use some. Looking at your photo, it seems to me that your coupling rods stand proud of the wheels by a relatively large distance, the effect of using the top hat bush the way that Slaters recommend. If instead you put the supplied washer on the crankpin next to the wheel and fastened the bush on from the outside of the rods you would gain a little more clearance behind the crossheads and wouldn't have to use the unprototypical nuts. The bushes should tighten up against the washer and give a secure fixing. Once the model is completed, a tiny spot of Loctite on the crankpins stops any chance of them coming adrift. Simon Fitting the vacuum pump to the Agenoria one is a bit of a faff but is certainly doable, as you can see from the photos of 1367 earlier in this thread. Your model looks very good by the way, much better than some efforts I have seen in the past. Jeff

Chris OK, you've obviously thought it through ! Parts number 12 on the etch are called 'rivet detail plate', they fit around the hole and effectively reduce its diameter to be a snug fit around the piston rod. Dia. 1 shows them. I can post a photo if you like but it won't be until this evening, just about to go out to see 'Union of South Africa' down the road from me. Jeff

Chris As I understand it, you are soldering the motion brackets to the frames. You would make life easier for yourself if you didn't do that, or at the very least not yet: things like removing the front wheels for painting the frames and making minute adjustments to the cylinder angle are much more awkward if you do. Persevere with the chassis, it sounds like you have actually done most of the hard work, you have a rolling chassis so your model should run well eventually. It only took me a month to build 1367 (but I am retired and have built well over 60 other kits; that's not me bragging.) The body goes together fairly quickly, it just takes a long time, I found, to do the riveting-I counted over 1250! Some days you see a lot for your efforts and some days next to none. The nature of the beast! Jeff

Chris As far as I remember the cylinders are ok as they are so all you need to do is file the inside of the motion bracket where it rests against the frames until your slidebars are parallel to the frames. I've had a look under mine and I definitely didn't move the cylinders out. If you were to do that you would have problems locating the motion brackets under the running plates when you build the body. Incidentally, the slidebars are not the right pattern but I decided that I would live with that as I was in a hurry to build 1367. If you are a member of the Gauge O Guild, or know anyone who is, then you will find a review of my model in the latest issue of the Guild's Gazette magazine. Hope this helps, I'm following your build with interest in between building my JLRT GWR Mogul. Jeff

Chris If you need more crankpin bushes, Slaters do them as separate items. JPL also do them but in steel and ready tapped. Clearance behind the crossheads wasn't a problem on 1367, you just need to make sure that you have as little play as possible on the leading crankpins and cut off the screws as close as possible to the securing nuts/ bushes. As for current collection, I used the Agenoria method of wire scrapers; material and instructions are even provided in the kit. Easier to make and fit them before the brake crossbeams. Interesting that these little locos had no brake shoes on the leading wheels. And not a lot of people know that-unless they've built a model of one! Jeff

Chris Simon is correct, the GWR were conventional in having what is known as 'right hand lead'. (Beware of anything with three cylinders as the cranks are then at 120 degrees to each other.............) Nice progress on your 1366 so far, keep it up. Probably too late now but I use 10BA screws as crankpins, tapping the wheels first by turning the tap by hand in a vertical drill. Slaters' brass bushes tap 10BA very simply without having to be drilled. It is possible to use CPL crankpins as designed for Allan Harris wheels or just screw the Slaters' bushes on tight. All easier to do than explain. Honest! I changed from the Slaters 12 BA after my King sheared its leading crankpin, which took me hours to sort out as the wheels were not very accessible. (Another lesson learned in my earlier O Gauge days..) Jeff

Sorry, have come a little late to this thread. I have built one of these kits recently and very nice it is too. The etchings are very good indeed (although mine didn't come with pre-folded tanks) but I found the castings a bit of a mixed bag-I threw away the chimney and safety valve covers and got some suitable ones from JPL, I am fortunate in that I am only a fifteen minute drive from their shop. My only real criticisms were the aforementioned castings and the confusion over the tank rivets(or lack of. Fortunately, I looked at plenty of photographs beforehand). I'm not totally convinced that the cab isn't a touch too narrow, judging by photographs but I can't be certain. As for the compensation arrangement, I found that it didn't work particularly well, not freely enough, so all I did was remove the beams, put a stop above each of the leading axleboxes and let the centre ones find their own ride height. Seems to work. Due to the design of the kit it is not really possible without a lot of butchery to fit a large motor, I used a second-hand RG7 from the aforementioned JPL and it performs admirably, runs nice and slow too. I would recommend fitting plenty of weight in the tanks, there's loads of room. I soldered some offcuts of lead sheet in them. The loco will haul eight heavy coaches up the slight incline on our club layout. I think that's good enough. Hope all this helps. I also bought a copy of The Pannier Papers Number 6 by Irwell Press on this class and the 1500s, some very useful photographs. A dig around flickr and the Rail Photoprints website will also turn up some useful photographs. I will be away from my laptop for a fortnight from Wednesday but if I can help just ask. Photos attached of my slightly battered 1367-I spent an hour in the cab of the real one at Wadebridge in 1964 so just had to build one. Jeff

Andreas Premier's rods will be to exact scale measurements. If the kit designer has slightly changed the wheelbase, as he has done with the 2-8-0, then the Premier ones will not fit. Ask Jim Snowdon, (I think he designed the kit) he is visiting this topic and has made a few comments already. Hope this helps. Jeff

Ken Thanks again for the kind words-92022 is photographed on the Preston Group's 'Hawksbridge' layout. It (sorry, I can't call something that ugly 'she') often runs on there and certainly draws plenty of attention! It will also pull a good load. One of the chaps at the club has a photo he took of 92022 working a Blackpool excursion, now that's different! Jeff