Alan76

Quote: Sorry about that Alan, I presumed that as a pub;ished author you were already well and truly out of the closet. We also had Len Tingle round the show later in the weekend. In fact it seems that a large part of BBC Leeds has sensible hobbies and I was most impressed that Jake Yapp could tell an Alco from an EMD. No problem Jamie.. I don't make a fuss about it but I don't mind who knows either... but I didn't know about the other two! Quote: Sheffield-Leeds electrification isn't essential to Midland Mainline, though it probably makes sense for other reasons. Only the HSTs run there and if these were no longer used their electric replacements could just as well be based somewhere else. Fair pint Edwin, I hadn't thought about that. But I still think it's reasonable premise that MML electrification would end up in Leeds rather than stopping at Sheffield. Alan

There's a lot still undecided about all this. As my name's been mentioned in connection with the story (in a positive way - thanks guys!) a couple of times I thought it might be worth passing on what I know as of 4pm on Wednesday. If this gets too long or tedious I'm sure the Mods will do their stuff, so here goes: The BBC broke this story on Monday morning. I had a tip last week and the story firmed up late on Sunday evening. An advice note put out by the Treasury's PR people spoke about 'Leeds-Manchester' electrification. No mention of York. But later, the same note spoke of creating an electric railway from Newcastle to Liverpool, with a saving of 45 minutes of current journey times. Clearly, taken together, these two statements are a nonsense - you can't do Newcastle-Liverpool without doing Leeds-York. And that is exactly what is going to happen according to DfT's PR people, speaking today. This will create an electric route from Newcastle to York, Leeds, Stalybridge, Manchester Vic to Liverpool. The confusion has arisen because different Government departments have been putting out different stories. Only this morning I had sight of an email from the DfT that specifically EXCLUDES Leeds-York from the project! Well, I suppose it is all outside the M25 so the confusion is understandable. What DfT is also saying is that Network Rail has been asked to produce a report looking at the feasibility of extending the OLE to Hull, Scarborough and Middlesbrough. That report will be delivered in July 2012. In ordinary times none of them would be remotely viable - they're all based around one train an hour. But we're not in ordinary times. The only reason the core North trans-Pennine is being wired is because the Government's desperate to get people back to work and this is seen as a quick win. The Treasury advice note spoke about work possibly starting 'next year'. Well. Normally we think about an electrification scheme for a few years, do a feasibility study, think about it and then do another one just in case and then - years later - put spades in the ground. So starting next year is an indication of how desperate things are. And it'll happen quickly because it'll piggyback off the 'Lancashire triangle' electrification, extending East from Manchester Vic, and, as someone on here - Edwin, I think - has remarked, all the complex bits - across Leeds, and York for example - are already wired. So, for the sake of keeping the electrification teams together and in work, it might be that it'll be seen worth the implicit subsidy involved to keep on wiring. My guess is that Hull would be favourite followed by Middlesbrough because of potential wider network benefits. Look North showed Class 319 units because it's a reasonable guess (and my script said as much) that ex-Thameslink trains will be the likely rolling stock. Add them onto the fleet needed for the Lancashire lines and you'd need fewer than a stand alone fleet and they could all be maintained at the same place by the same team of people. Looking at some of the other comments made here, I can confirm that there are currently NO plans to electrify the Calder Valley Line, though west Yorkshire Metro floated a plan a couple of years ago to electrify the route from Halifax to York as a Leeds cross-city line. Given that this would now only involve doing Leeds to Bradford and Halifax, this may become a viable scheme. So could the Harrogate line, but at this stage all this is no more than speculation. Looking a little further afield, one effect of wiring Leeds-York is that you create an electric railway all the way from Glasgow via Edinburgh to Wakefield. That seems to me to make the idea of a Voyager pantograph coach a lot more likely. And as Jamie (who did a cracking job of 'outing' me to a colleague the other day!) remarks, Midland Main Line has to be seen as an early candidate for electrification. At which point you extend the wires to Derby (you'd need at least one Sheffield/Leeds route electrified to get stock to and from Neville Hill). It's hard to imagine that Derby-Birmingham would not be wired as an add-on at which point Voyagers would be spending at least half their time running as electric trains. Won't stop the smell, but will stop the throbbing diesel 18 inches under you backside. Sorry this has been such a long post, but I hope you find it helpful. Alan Whitehouse

Mini-MSW - corporate blue Manchester, Sheffield and Wath 1500v DC, set in May 1981 - fits the bill. The Great Central at it's last gasp! Alan

I thought the Hymek and teddybear were really believable Jerry. Right through the 1960s there were plenty of small coalmines still around in plenty of small coalfields. They didn't see much investment so the buildings, headgear and so on still look the part. And it wasn't until the 1970s that 16T minerals started being replaced in large numbers by HAA and HEA wagons. Geat stuff!

Ian, If you're feeling a bit cut off, try joining the North East Area Group of the 2mm Scale Association which meets at Bournmoor, North of Durham, South of Newcastle. It might sound a long way off, but I get to most group meetings from West Yorkshire which I bet is further away than Berwick - and I know I don't travel as far as one or two others. You'd be made very welcome and there's always cracking home made tea at the end of the day! Alan