Jon4470

I have never considered that the rollers might actually flex. I suppose that it’s possible….but the rollers are pretty substantial steel. Thing is, 6” rollers won’t do sides in 4mm….so even if there is deflection, what choice is there? The pressure is applied by adjusting each end separately. It’s perfectly possible to get uneven pressure at each end because the adjustments have not been equal. This will create an uneven bend….you know how I know this🙂. Equally, it is important to feed the piece in square to the rollers….otherwise the curvature is at an angle. Useful for forming a taper boiler maybe, but not for carriage sides. I tend to start gently and gradually adjust the pressure until I get the curvature that I need. For the level of curvature on the sides I don’t think I’ve seen much work hardening caused by several passes through the roller. Sometimes I adjust/fettle the final curve using finger pressure applied to curve the piece (around the roller). The bottom edge of the piece can usually be held between the rollers to help with this. I don’t think that rollers are perfect. But they are much easier (for me) than rolling by hand.

Hi John Lurking on Bill’s home page is a link to “lists”. This has all the possible etches that he can do. Having said that, I couldn’t download the list today! I have a copy from last year though…so if you let me know which diagram, then I can tell you the kit number. If you contact Bill with a kit number he can easily let you know if it is still possible to get the etches produced, albeit at a lead time. I’ve put an attachment on this post…it might open Jon Mousa-Models-Etch-List-Coaches-Pre-Grouping-LNER.pdf

I bought my rollers from this source….advert is from 2019 Model Railway Journal. I ‘m not sure if he still advertises (and supplies) but might be worth checking out an MRJ if you are ever in a newsagent. I bought the 10” version. The pressure applied is very controllable so, yes, they can be used to impart a very gentle curvature. Sometimes I just use the rollers to hold the piece in question, so that I can form the curve by hand, thus using one of the rollers as the former. I generally use them to form my carriage sides. I’d agree that varying metal thicknesses can create some variation in the curvature. Cardboard packing may be a good way to prevent this. It’s something that I’ll try next time.

I think all the effort was worth it! It has resulted in a lovely looking model. Jon

For completeness, fourth option would be to take off each end of the supporting fret. That would leave top and bottom still attached to the side. This way the fret does not provide any increased resistance to the bending. Personally, I’d see if option 1 works first. Two reasons for that. I’m cautious by nature and, I have a set of rollers which would take away the need to tape edges etc.

Hi Chas Now that you’ve pointed out the light reflection on the right hand window ….I agree…and wonder how I didn’t see that first time round! I agree with @Daddyman about the side window being visible through the left hand window. The railcar is pictured leaving Bramhope tunnel…so it’s also possible that the stonework is causing some of the effect through the side window. Jon

Hi Chas I found a photo this evening that shows the front windows closed. The central window clearly shows frames at the sides and not at the lower edge. The right hand window (as we look at it) is interesting. It looks almost like it has been painted over. Sorry the photo is so blurred - it’s an enlargement of a photo of a photo. Jon

Hi Ian My mistake….Vol 2 does say they were in Crimson Lake….think I got confused with the older 4 wheel and 6 wheel carriages that were used for excursions. I agree with @jwealleans these were built for the Hull to Liverpool immigrant trains. I’m not sure how often the immigrant trains ran though……I guess that the carriages may have been used on excursions if not required on the Hull Liverpool run. I think the traffic ceased because of WW1. After that I assume they were used for general excursion traffic and possibly as strengtheners (that’s what I plan to use my example for🙂). I’ll be reading the article that you referenced though….the straight sided stock may not be everyone’s cup of tea, but they do add interest to a train. I’d like to build the touring camping coach…..but that’s another story and colour scheme.! Jon

Interesting project. I’m not sure if these were painted NER lake. I’ll check when I get home, but I have a suspicion that they were teak when built. As for the matchboard panelling…..consistency is they key I think (rather than the exact number of boards). Perhaps a marking out jig? Dots top and bottom of the panel and then “join the dots”. It’s possible that a handrail jig might have the correct spacing- worth checking (if you have one) Jon

Interesting discussion about all these possible permutations to achieve the carriage in the photos. I might just be adding to the options with this post (and was consequently hesitant to join in for a while)….however here goes! When I was researching the ex NER brake carriages (standard brakes not the auto cars) it became apparent that the detailed arrangements of duckets and windows in the sides of the van portion changed from time to time…..within the same diagram. From memory, this meant some had windows, some had no windows, the duckets could be at one end or in the middle etc So, it leads me to wonder if the driving trailers also had these changes to the van side windows? Jon

Nice work on the etches Chas. I agree about the horizontal frames by the way. I think that the lower edge of the opening top light was frameless. If there was a frame on the fixed glass, then it was very slim indeed. Jon

Roof details now added….. NB The body is just resting on the footplate in this photo! I’m not sure about the chimney cover. It looks a bit big to me, so I’m beginning to wonder if the cover acted a bit like a plug and sat inside the rim of the chimney. Does any one know? (I had to fabricate this cover because it was missing from the kit……..or, maybe, I lost it) I’ve also added the rest of the kit supplied underframe components…. The kit supplies some white metal steps for the cab. I’m going to replace those with brass because they’ll be finer and, also, because I need some steps at the water tank end. These latter are not supplied in the kit. Also to add, and not supplied as part of the kit, are: guard irons brakes sandbox operating rods Injectors lamp irons couplings I’ll also be adding the leather flaps that covered the sandboxes ( to stop water getting in from the injectors). And, looking at that last photo, I may replace the sanding pipes with brass wire….. I think that is the full list. Should keep me busy for a while😀 Jon

Hello Mick Thanks for posting those links. They made me double check the one image in Yeadons that shows the roof layout on the prototype. I’d been looking for roof images for a while….the model ones are ones that I’d seen, there don’t seem to be any of the prototype roofs though. Anyway, the reason that I’d been looking was specifically for the chimney. On the prototype the chimney comes through the roof (obviously 🙂) and there is a gap between the roof and the chimney. I was trying to work out the shape of this gap and decide whether to model it or not. I decided against modelling this gap in the end. Thing is, I was concentrating so hard on the chimney that I missed the panel strapping. I think this is a bit too dominant on the Dapol models, so I’ll use insulation tape for my model. I do have the ventilator prepped already……and I may fit the sliding vent on top. This was a modification applied after completion I think. Revisiting the Yeadon photo has also confirmed the need for rain strips. So, overall, there is plenty to add to the roof. Worth doing though because on a model that tends to be one of the most visible parts.

Now, the body shell is made up of two ends, two sides, one rear cab plate and the top of the water tank. That is, there are six pieces of white metal that need to be fixed together …… vertical, at right angles to each other and with no gaps. Several “challenges” became apparent when attempting this. First is that all the joints are butt joints, not chamfered edges. Thus any gaps anre very visible. Added to which, any aids to accurate positioning were in the wrong place…. If I had used the moulded support (just visible between the arrows) to set the position, then the side would have been 2mm inside the edge of the rear end. At this point I needed three pairs of hands to hold everything …. Let alone solder it together. I was beginning to regret starting this kit. Eventually, though, I found a sequence that worked for me. I tack soldered the rear cab plate to the side. Then I tacked the water tank top to the side and underneath the cab plate. Next to go on was the rear end plate…..making sure that it was positioned to allow the unfixed side to butt up against it. Then the second side followed by the front end plate. All of this was tack soldered….and re-arranged several times to get everything as square as I could. Here’s a couple of work in progress photos The last photo shows that the rear cab plate isn’t particularly well aligned to the sides or roof profile. I was able to adjust it a bit but, in the end filler, was required. In fact, all the joints around the body had some filler applied. I then turned my attention to the roof. The kit supplies a white metal item. Guess what, it didn’t fit properly ! It would be possible to bend it to shape but, in any case, it is way too thick. When looking at the prototype photos, it looks to me that the real roof sheets were very thin. In fact, some look quite battered and bashed on the edges. I decided to replace the white metal roof with a brass piece. Thankfully, the underframe has so far been trouble free. The model is currently in this state (roof resting on the body, body just resting on the footplate and underframe.) Next step is to finish the underframe per the kit instructions. Then add the details that aren’t supplied in the kit - such as rear steps, injectors, sandbox operating rods. Jon PS I’ve just remembered….I need to add the ventilator to the roof….and I think there were also rain strips on the roof.

I’ve lost enthusiasm to finish the railcar…daft really because there’s not a lot left to do. So, last week, I decided to do a quick project to re-ignite the mojo. (I’ve tried really hard to complete one thing before starting another……but am failing miserably 🙂) Now this new project does have a link with the railcar…..it’s a Sentinel…..but this time a Y3 shunter. The kit is from NuCast Partners and uses a Tenshodo spud for the power. I bought this a few years ago so that I could produce a model of number 192. This was shedded at Starbeck and was used to shunt Ripon station yard. It travelled light engine early in the morning and returned mid evening…again, light engine. The castings are clean and neat (more on that later though). In fact, so neat that they had caused part of the delay between purchase and construction. You see, the kit sides look like this but number number 192 looks like this….no side grills! (sorry that the photos are of opposite sides) The thought of scraping those grills off had put me off starting the kit. This week, though, I gathered up my courage, got out the scraping tool and set to work. After about 30 mins…… Smooth side😀……so then I did the same on the other side….success again! I also drilled holes (circled in red) for the additional handrails that were fitted in the NEA during the 1930s. Worst bit over I thought - time to crack on and solder up the body ……. To be continued

Hi Chas If you are not keen on the locomotive bit I have a suggestion. How about just making 2 carriage portions and joining them together as a twin? It’s what Gresley did to them in the 1920s. Jon

Go for it! There are some interesting pre grouping railcars from a variety of companies. If I remember correctly the GNR ones were quite well proportioned…….unlike one that I could (at a stretch) justify. That one was a GWR railcar built by Kerr Stuart and sold to the Nidd Valley Railway and named Hill (after one of the Directors I think). Personally I think it is ugly……but it would be unique🤔 my source is British Railcars by Jenkinson and Lane….although I guess that there maybe better better sources for the GNR exclusively. Jon

I agree with the use of steel bolts and have never had one get soldered solid. The flux will encourage a nice patina of rust on the steel bolt though🙂 Clean the bolts after use and then the rust stays manageable…..and probably helps, even more, to prevent soldering….this is one of my 8ba bolts after a few uses. You can, of course, clean the bolts after use…..but I tend not to bother as long as the bolt is still usable.

I don’t profess to be an expert, I just think that these buffers capture the look of the pre -grouping buffers. I used these on an exGNR saloon (number 46) running in LNER days. I used the shorter shanks and mixed in the 16” heads. I used 16” heads because they seemed to be the correct size and allowed me to file them to the flattened oval shape. I think that the NER stock used similar buffer shanks. The 16” heads can probably be filed to shape….some photos seem to show round buffers, some oval(ish) etc. I think it depended on the date of building. Hope it helps…and apologies to Jesse for the small hijack🙂 Jon

I’ve used some of the turned brass buffers from Precision Paints for earlier coach types: https://www.phoenix-paints.co.uk/products/4-coach-buffers I think that I might have used the 16” heads on the shorter buffer shanks. The buffer heads can be filed into the oval shape if required

Excellent work! Really like these locos and they are more or less essential for 1930s North Eastern railways. I’m making notes as I have one of these stashed away…. So all the tips and work arounds will help greatly. Jon

No problem. Yes, you have it correct ……unless we both have got it wrong😃 One thing that did occur to me though, is that the upstand may need to be cut to allow any inset doors to fit. You can see that on the Comet floor plan where the upstand have been removed for the first 15mm or so. It’s a thing to watch out for….along with space for brackets, compartments etc Jon

Unhelpful comment alert…….nope😁 I couldn’t think of anything easy for a jig……so I ended up using plastic right angle section. Definitely not as fine as brass….and my cutting was not always accurate….. but it looks ok in situ. To remedy the lack of photos of underframes….. One of my Comet ones here And the MJT version here (unfinished) Both have the same principle, with an upstand to support the sides and the solebars fitted to the other side of the floor plan and slightly inboard. Like @micklnerI also prefer the MJT type. I find it easier to form and to solder- and I also think the MJT version is slightly finer. It’s all fairly marginal though. Jon

Hi Chas As I understand it, the North Eastern Area used destination blinds and all the other areas used the brackets and boards. I think this relates to pre-grouping practice. I don’t think the NEA removed the brackets though……they just didn’t use them. I presume that the destination blinds were in a box, and that the box could be removed if the railcar was transferred to another area. Jon

The photo of Cleveland also shows the destination blind fitted to the NEA railcars in the middle top light window……whereas Flower of Yarrow shows the destination boards in use on the van compartment.