Combe Martin

Not being skilled in soldering up an etched brass kit, I've been working on improving a Lima BR maroon liveried Siphon G. The most obvious error are the BR Mk1 bogies so I bought some GW plastic bogie frames from Replica railways (those fitted to the original Mainline GW coaches). Now these are the passenger coach variety so I've been carving them up a bit by chopping off the ends of the springs, and then adding the spring 'hangers' (that's probably not the correct name) made from stiff wire and other bits. I've also got the correct buffers to fit too. Then I suspect ther'll be a few underframe mods too. I've got the Jack Slinn book for some info but I'll be tempted to copy the underframe details from the photos on here. I'm a Somerset & Dorset modeller and I've found quite a few colour pictures of these on the S&D. My biggest frustration is I havn't found a pic yet where I can make out the number !

Now I realise I may be regarded as a bit of a philistine in suggesting this, and I'm a bit late too having only just discovered this thread, but the Hornby Hawksworth coaches have these bogies, and from memory those fitted to their full brake are different from the passenger vehicles in that they do have the shorter leaf springs.

Looking at Ivo Peters Vol 2 (1955-1959), the Saturdays only through trains from the north were mostly crimson and cream with the odd maroon coaches thrown in, same for the daily 'Pines' too and the daily the Bristol trains. Some of the Maunsell sets (390-399) on the local services were green (probably still SR) and some were BR Crimson & Cream. As far as a timetable, you need to find a BR Southern region winter 1955-1956 one, it'll include the S&D lines. It'll be about and inch and a half thick. Possibly on Ebay ?? I've got a 1961 one, but I'm not giving it up.

I'm a Somerset & Dorset modeller, and when Hornby re- introduced their improved ex-Mainline (and everybody else) 2P but with a new loco drive chassis, I bought one. Now on the S&D, the usual load for an un-assisted 2P was 3 or 4 coaches, but I'd heard of one service (down I think) where more were added along the way, so it ended up being 8 (on the southern part of the line). I therefore decided to test it's haulage capacity. First I tried the usual 4 coaches, it romped away. then I added the extra 4, again it romped away. I added 2 more, same. 2 more, same. 1 more, same, so it's up to 13 now (this was the maximum my best loco, a Hornby rebuilt West Country could manage easily without slipping). After that I kept on adding 1 more until it reached 18, same !!. At this point I gave up !. This was a completely standard loco, not big and heavy, just a 4-4-0 and with big driving wheels too and no extra weight added. The difference was it had traction tyres on the rear driving wheels. Now I'm not advocating that you fit traction tyres, but because of them this loco has GRIP, so if you've exhausted all the other checks and the mechanism is free running with nothing causing drag in it, unless it has a weak motor, this must be where the problem lies.

I think your choice is down to 47542 for a long life loco in your period (that's what I've done). There is an Ivo Peters shot of a Jinty south of Templecombe with the caption saying it's 47342, but that's an error, it should be 47542. 47342 was never on the S&D.

Post deleted because I was answering the previous post which has now mysteriously disappeared ?

Right at the beginning there's a down freight about to run through Cole hauled by a 4F, but there's a load of horse boxes in it, and I'm wondering, does anyone know where they would have been going to ? Up to now I've only seen a single horse box (marked Calf Box) and that was at Binegar.

I've only just spotted this one, and it's the first time I've seen this film too !

Referring to the above and my previous posts, and the last few about the blue/grey catering cars, after a lot more 'rummaging' on here and reading mountains of posts and checking other websites, I've found the following. In addition to the 3 anthracite electric restaurant cars, the LNER also built 3 gas restaurant cars (so they weren't conversions). All 6 were for working away from 'home', and all were used on the Newcastle-York-Bournemouth West route at some point, though I have no dates and I don't know the withdrawl date of these coaches. The running numbers of the 3 gas cars were 9163-9165, and one of the anthracite cars may have been 9199 ?, though I havn't found the numbers of the others. The diagram numbers of the 2 types of anthracite cars were 267 and 268 but I havn't found the diagram for the gas cars. There is contradiction over the anthracite cars in that some say there were 2 x D267 Restaurant Unclassified and 1 x D268 Restaurant 3rd, and some have those quantities the other way round !. Bill Bedford (Mousa Models) does a D268 coach side etch, but none of the others are listed, (they may all be the same externally, the differences being internal only, but that was speculation from somewhere). Regarding the long lived blue/grey buffet cars, I've seen 'rebuilt' mentioned against those so I don't know whether they were rebuilds of former restaurant cars or what ? I've seen running numbers of 10 blue/grey cars listed. These are 9115,22,23,24,28,29,31,32,35 and 95, and the WR one was W9135E as mentioned above, though I have seen W9118E quoted too, was it still maroon then ? Peter W.

There certainly were a quite a number of different diagrams for Gresley restaurant cars. The info I've found from coach type lists only ever lists a coach as a gresley restaurant car and its diagram number and not how it's cooking is powered, except for the 'anthracite electric' ones. The info about them being electric and so kept on the former LNER because of charging points there, was from another source on here. I was hoping to find the running numbers of the anthracite electric ones but havn't so far. They were diagram 267 and 268 (23A was also mentioned though there were only 2 types listed). I might have to find a book on Gresley coaches, something equivalent to Mike Kings southern coaches book. One other thought, I wonder if your gas one was a 'more modern day' conversion. Do you have the diagram number ?

Referring to the above and the last 6 posts, I've now found more details of why some Gresley restaurant cars were allowed to wander away from the former LNER lines. It seems there were 3 built for this as 'anthracite electric' restaurant cars, 2 x 3rd class and 1 x unclassified. Ie they had a coal fired boiler or oven. What the exact cooking arrangements were I don't know. Also as an aside, it seems that Mk1 restaurant cars in the 80nnn number range were also 'anthracite electric' ! So, any Gresley restaurant car seen at Bournemouth West must have been one of these, and would have needed a fireman ! I wonder if he borrowed some coal from the loco ? Regarding the ones used in the last days of steam out of Waterloo and the long lived blue/grey ones I havn't searched for info about which ones they were . Peter W.

Yes, I thought afterwards I might have been sticking my neck out again on this one. I must hunt for where I saw it quoted that the Gresley restaurants were kept on the LNER.

Yes, I believe there was only 1 blue/grey one (no doubt someone may know better) and Hornby did produce it at one point.

Well having 'put my neck on the line' by saying that the Gresley restaurant cars didn't work away from the LNER (see above), I've found even more info about them and being used on the Southern out of Waterloo in the last days of steam to Weymouth and Exeter, even a maroon one marshalled in a blue/grey set behind a Warship ! So, who knows ?, maybe my earlier info referred to a different diagram version, and there were some gas ones that could wander.

Many thanks for that. I've since picked up from somewhere else that the Gresley restaurant cars were kept on the former LNER lines because they had charging points for them which other lines didn't have. Presumably that means that cooking in a Gresley was electric rather than from a gas cylinder ?, suggesting that Stanier and MK1 restaurant cars do use gas ?? I suppose then that your York service had a Gresley because it started on the LNER. I wonder if the batteries were flat for the return trip ?

Sorry about the 'drip feed' of info from my memory, but as I said earlier I'm away from home where all my notes are. The 'Pines' was the only S&D service to run a restaurant car (which I'm sure you'll know), but there's no evidence that a Gresley Restaurant was ever used (I was hoping to use the Hornby one). There's none in photos and Brian Mac and his expert contacts all confirmed this when I asked him a few years back. I mention it because I have seen at least one S&D layout use one. Just in case you were ever going to run a 1964 service, as well as 3 coach 64 foot Bulleid and SR Mk1 sets, there were a few SR 3 coach 'hybrid' sets too. These comprised of 2 MK1 brake seconds sandwiching a Bulleid composite. There's quite a few pictures of set 557, but I've also seen 554 and there's at least one pic of 2 coupled together neither of which is 557 if the pictures dates and times are correct. I know the earlier Bachmann Bulleid coaches are not perfect (not sure when the new ones will appear) but they can be improved a lot by fitting flush glazing and first class and no smoking transfers to the windows, and there's plenty more that can be done too, paint the interior, corridor hand rail, buffers. Peter W.

Didn't fertiliser trains run to or from Blandford. I'm away from home at the mo so havnt got all my notes.

Your right, and they didn't last long on the S&D then. End of 1960-early 1961 ? Again I'm working from memory, but were some of them the 64 foot compartment stock ?

Apologies, but I've only just discovered this thread. Back in 2018 there was various discussion about the make up of various weekday services over the S&D. I've done extensive photographic research of loco's and coaching stock used on the S&D by wading through dozens of the S&D and other picture books, magazines and online photos and the S&D Trust magazine 'Pines Express' and I do have a lot. Now, I'm away from home at the moment (and have been for some while) and certainly no chance of getting home at the moment, so I havn't got access to it, but working from memory there are a few things I can recall that I've not seen mentioned here. The 13.10 Up service to Bath and Bristol (or was it 11.10) was comprised of WR stock. I cant remember the corresponding service it came down on. Bulleid coaches, (the Bachmann type), didn't appear on the local services until the new Hornby type 59 foot Bulleid coaches disappeared (the end of 1963), so 1964 really (no doubt someone will say if I look in XYZ book on page no nn there is one, so I'm quite happy to be so informed). There probably was some Bulleid stock on the Exmouth - Cleethorpes sometimes as it was a real 'mixed bag' bit it didn't run via Bournemouth. So basically ... up to late 1961 ... Maunsell stock in the 390-399 range and occasionally 44n 1962-1963 ........... Bulleid 59 foot stock 1964 onward ...... Bulleid 64 foot stock, BR Mk1s and virtually anything Again from memory, LMR Stanier stock could appear at any time. One other. The Maunsell Moguls appeared in trials in the early 50's but wer'nt used again. Or were they ? I once found a photo (in the S&D Trust Magazine) of an N on the weekday 13.10 up to Bath, just leaving Bournemouth. I've had the impression that it wasn't the only time, but the photographers wer'nt usually out during the week. Oh, and Hello Brian Mac. Peter W.

You've all missed Rebuilt 34045 Ottery St Mary. Hornby used to do it along with Wilton and Combe Martin. Might be available second hand somewhere ?

Many thanks for this. It fits with the general impression that in their early BR days the S&D 2Ps were lined, but mostly lost it in the mid 50s. Ivo Peters vol 2 has 2 pictures of this loco dated August 1956 (Plates 78 and 80). Both show it unlined and clean, well not grimey. One is a close up of the cab side. Looks like I'm going to have to scrape that lining off.

Apologies for not being clearer. When I said most S&D 2Ps appeared to be unlined I meant in their later BR days, so approx. 1958 to 1962 (from memory I think the last 2p was withdrawn in 1962 but I'm away from home at the moment and havn't got access to all my books). My main modelling period is 1959 to 1965, but concentrating on 1961 (a very good year for a big mixed variety of stock and locos, and 1964). I do have Ivo Peters 1 & 2 (1950s) with me and having scanned through them there may be a couple of 2ps still with lining up to 1956, though I do take the point about lining being hidden by dirt, and the picture angles arn't always helpful. I cant find a picture of any lined 2p after that, but as I said most of my books are at home. If anyone has spotted a picture of a lined 2p as late as 1958 or later I would love to know because it means I don't have to scrape it off my new Hornby one.

I'm sure all the 2ps on the S&D were unlined, and I have studied loads of picture books. If anyone has seen a picture of a lined one on the S&D I'm quite happy to be corrected because it means I don't have to remove it. The other thing to check is the tender front. Some Fowler tenders had the 'coal door' tender front (like in this picture) but lots had the 'coal hole' tender front. You have to study photos of your particular loco to see which it had, and even then the photo angle isn't always helpful. There is a brass etch available to convert the tender front which can also be used on the Hornby 4F, and Bachmann 4F and 7F. Its amazing how many RTR locos have the wrong tender front.

I know a lot of modellers don't like traction tyres, but on this loco they havnt been a problem for me, but rather a bonus. My new 2p turns out to be the most powerful loco I have. I had it hauling a mixed bag of 18 coaches before my layout couldn't cope with any more. Previously my most powerful locos were a Bachman 9F and Hornby rebuilt WC both of which will pull 15. If modelling an S&D loco in BR days, If think I'm correct in saying that none were lined, so if you'r going to renumber one you'll need to scrape the lining off (easy on the old Mainline version but not so on the Hornby one) and/or respray it too.

Referring to your idea of modelling 3210, when on the S&D this loco was in lined green and with a Collet 3000 gallon tender with late crest, ie one of the Mainline split chassis models. Mine runs well but you need to be a bit innovative to convert it to DCC.