Combe Martin

Oh yes, and it's name was 'Buttercup'. Did Unigate use that colour scheme in the early '60s ?

The problem with this is that the Creamery Siding was one longish siding only. If the dairy had it's own shunter there would need to be it's own refuge siding where it could hide and be serviced, coaled etc. Ok, this could be 'hidden' but the access to this (ie a branch off to one side) would be somewhere visible, and it didn't exist. Also, the Creamery Siding was double ended. The arrival/departure end had a pit between the rails at one point, though I dont know how long this was and it's purpose. I was guessing that it was for flushing out tankers before re-use. The other end (the kick back) is where I'm guessing that the tankers were loaded. Full tankers of Whey also used to come in, but I dont know at the moment which end unloaded them. What I'm getting at is that there could be a number of tankers at both ends of the siding at the same time and doing different things, and it wasn't a case of all tankers in and out together. Pictures only ever show 1 or 2 tankers attached to a train arriving or departing at one time, but far more than that in the Creamery Siding. So moving the tankers up and down manually was far more flexible for the dairy, afterall, where on the siding would you position the shunter for the same flexibility ?. At one end or the other ?, in the middle to the left of the point or to the right of it ?. The access to the siding was in the middle. Whilst having a little industrial private shunter is an attractive idea, I'm not sure it would have worked here.

Well, the photograph that I keep going on about has a capstan mounted on a plinth next to the Creamery siding by the point thats roughly at the centre of the siding, so this was my first thought, as I mentioned when I first started this topic. However, I'm reliably informed by Paul Mays (bike2steam) who's asked someone that worked there that they man handled the tankers along the siding using pinch-bars. This 'begs the question', what was the capstan for ?. I wonder if rope haulage was originally planned, but then abandoned ?

The Creamery siding at Bailey Gate (the one where the milk tankers were handled) isn't shown on any of the online signalling diagram maps of the yard. It ran at the top of the map from left to right (roughly parallel with the main line) and was fed by what is called 'Down Siding No 2'. The 'fork' in the track layout at the top of the 1955 map didn't exist but rather the track continued the curve left and fed the Creamery siding joining it from the right hand track of a right handed point positioned roughly half way along the Creamery siding's length. The Creamery siding therefore had a 'kick back' section running to the right that tankers could not be shunted into directly, but which all tankers had to be pushed into. That's the best way I can describe it, appologies if my description is confusing, or if I'm preaching to anyone that knows the layout already. Tankers always arrived from and departed in the 'up' direction, ie from/to the left on the map. They were usually marshalled at the front of an arriving train and the rear of a departing train. An arriving loco would have uncoupled from it's train leaving it in the down platform, run forward, and then shunted back along Down Siding No 2 to the Creamery Siding, and pulled out any departing tankers, shunting them into the siding immediately behind the down platform for collection by a later up train. Having emptied this half of the Creamery Siding, the loco would then shunt back to its train still in the down platform, couple to the tankers (which would now be uncoupled from the rest of the train), haul them forward, then propell them back into the now emptied left hand (north west) end of the Creamery Siding. The loco would therefore be at the wrong side of the tankers to be able to shunt them into the right hand (kick back) end of the Creamery Siding. It would need to be able to run round them somewhere. It couldn't do this on the main line because the rest of it's train was still in the down platform and blocking any 'run round' (this could be a passenger or goods train). The only other place to run round, was via what is marked on the map as 'Unigate Creameries Siding' (not to be confused with what I am calling the Creamery Siding) which was the new siding loop added to the yard in 1955. However, this was next to a loading bank where photographs show vans usually stabled being loaded with ????? (whatever), so it would be blocked and couldn't be used for running round . This is why I believe using a loco to do all the milk tanker shunting movements isn't practical. Moving them manually was presumably the most convienient way for the dairy because they could move them from/to the arrivals/departure end of the siding when they were ready and not have to rely on a convienient loco. Appologies if my explanation/reasoning is a bit confusing, this is quite difficult to explain without having the map here. I did wonder about motorising one tanker as an 'interesting exercise', I might still try it. And the magnet under the baseboard idea had also occurred to me too. Every tanker would need to be fitted with its 'lump of iron' between the frames, but this might be the best 'simplist' way of avoiding the 'big finger'.

So it was the nearest thing to a parcels train that the S&D had, bearing in mind that all the other trains photographers claimed to be parcels were pigeon specials !

I did think of this, but the trouble is I've got loads of milk tankers, and photos allways show this siding having at least 3 or 4 milk tankers in it, so I'd end up motorising loads of them, then of course when a loco shunted them out it would be like running at least a 'quadruple header'. Yes, technically possible, but I bet it wouldn't run well !

Wireless routers are 'odd' things. I dont have a Belkin ( I use a Netgear ), and I'm not using a Dynamis or any wireless DCC so I'm not affected by this problem, but it's not uncommon to lose the wireless connection between my laptop and the router. If I power off the router and switch it on again my connection is back, so I'm not surprised that resetting a Belkin in the same way also stops it from interfering with a Dynamis.

Many thanks for that,I'm not quite sure how I'm going to model it though, a micro decoder in a little man or maybe 12 inch to the foot scale finger ! That still leaves me to ponder what the capstan was for though ?, and also the pit under the canopy. I'm guessing the pit must have been something to do with flushing out the tanks ??

Please forgive my ignorance, but what's a 'pinch-bar', is it some sort of long lever that they would stick into the ground next to a wagon and then pull the other end against the wagon to 'lever' it along ?

I know this is not quite 'Midford', but I've never found anyone who knows the composition of the 20.25 up perishables from Templecombe. It dosn't seem to have been photographed, presumably because it was dark !. Does anyone know ?

Many thanks, I have seen some bits before, but some others are new to me. One thing thats allways puzzled me, the 2nd of these 2 links goes to the Bailey Gate signalling page, and at the end of this is the signalling diagram that reflects the 1955 track changes. At the top of the diagram, after the point where the new United Dairies siding joins the existing track to the creamery siding, the track layout is shown as 'forking', but surely this is wrong, there was no fork there but just a single track leading to the creamery siding which on this map would have run from left to right at the top, the connection being by a point roughly in the middle of this siding, or have I missed something ?.

It's a possibility I suppose, but how much does a full milk tanker weigh ?. I'm sure the capstan beside the siding is the clue, and must have something to do with it, afterall, if not, whats it there for ?

Many thanks, that would be absolutely brilliant.

Well, I was hoping to find someone that knew definately, or even remembered, or knew someone that remembered how milk tankers were shunted up and down. It can't have been a loco, because with the tankers across the point a loco can't get in there. I would have thought a tractor was unlikely, because the rails arn't buried in a road surface but are standing clear of the sleepers like any other siding. Also, between the throat of the point and the station approach end of the siding under the canopy there is a pit between the rails, a tractor would fall down it. It would also be interesting to know what the pit was for ?. The capstan next to the siding is the clue I think, I was just hoping for some confirmation of my speculation !

No, no, the Blue Trains start at Maidstone West now !

I've lived just down the road from Teston level crossing for nearly 40 years, and after my interest was rekindled, I can recall refurbished 2EPBs of the number series 64xx in blue/grey livery being the mainstay of the line for several years. The 47s and occasional 56 on the Allington stone trains were far more interesting though !

Hello, I'm attempting to model Bailey Gate in BR days, and wondered if anyone knows how milk tankers were moved up and down the Creamery siding. Obviously they were shunted into it by whatever loco was shunting the yard at the time, but how were they moved up and down it once the loco had departed. It was a 'kick back' siding and Bailey Gate didn't have a resident shunter. The photo on page 75 of Jeffrey Grayer's book, Sabotaged & Defeated Revisited (a Peter Russell picture), shows milk tankers partially fouling the point that connected the Creamery siding to the rest of the yard, which makes me wonder if they were rope or chain hauled up and down the kick back . Next to the siding, there is also what appears to be a capstain that a rope or chain could be wound around. Does anyone know about the milk tank operation at Bailey Gate. Many thanks.