Seanem44

Exactly... And here's the thing about it... I'm going to use a Star Wars analogy, so please keep with me. In Star Wars, you have Storm Troopers and their Iconic Uniforms. There were two variants. The Hero and Stunt versions. The Hero versions were built much finer and used in close ups like when Luke and Han were wearing them. The stunt version were made more quickly and lacked the fine detail. However, when you have hundreds of Troopers about in the background, you cant tell the difference. Same principle. You can purchase some more expensive wagons for your "up close" shots. However, the Peco kits give the ability to create dozens more for the background where you are less likely to notice the deficiencies. Choice is a great thing for the consumer. I buy expensive wagons now and then. I buy kits now and then. There is a time and a place for both. And its good we have both.

I'm not complaining. And they are marginally less detailed. Once assembled and painted, its a wagon. Theres only so much super detailing a wagon can receive. All it does is highlight it costs 10 pounds extra to have the thing assembled today by someone in China.

The thing that gets me is the cost of wagons now, when there are still perfectly viable Peco Wagon kits available that are easy to assemble for really good prices. I think I will be purchasing much more of those in the near future. They are actually relaxing to build.

So there is... I wasn't going to start one either way, but I imagine the threads will be a little more popular in the current climate.

Coaches. That is where I have seen it the most, along with what you have said. Time to start a blog called the Frugal Modeler, focusing on bargain bin shopping, lol.

Sounds right, with stores selling it about 20.00 below the RRP. 80.00 in early 2011 and 123.00 suggest now (Rails of Sheffield).

I'm merely using this as a base line for price increases over the past 7 years while also asking a question on how non-new tooling can come in so much higher than it once was. Either way, I guess I'll watch this play out while holding on to my current stock. If need be, I'll just go back to modelling good old CSXT freight.

I was reading old issues of BRM last night an Hattons had it listed at 80 pounds in March of 2011.

So how does preexisting tooling fit in? An 80 pound Deltic Prototype that sold very well... now re-released for 40 pounds more. Unless they are changing the motor and putting the new coreless in, I don't see how this fits recouping development costs.

This will be my last post on the topic as it has become circular indeed. It’s up to the manufacturers to find innovations to protect the consumer from such price jumps. Model trains aren’t the only items built in China, yet I’ve seen few things that have increased in price as much. China still manages to build electronics at price points much less than counterparts. And there are catching up in the quality and quality control department. For example, again, a company in astrophotography called ZWO has created a CMOS imaging camera that has cut in half the cost of imagers. What was once a barrier to entry for CCD imagers at $2000 Can now be had for $1000 and is reshaping the hobby. Granted these are Chinese companies located in China. Bachman and the other companies need to renegotiate if they feel they are getting a bad deal. China is not the only country that can manufacture items.

The most striking thing I’ve seen which is a huge eye opener is the Deltic Prototype. Reading an old issue of BRM, Hattons had it priced at 80 pounds in March of 2011 in their ad. It’s gone up for preorder for rerelease at 123.00. That’s a 40 pound increase in 7 years for pre existing tooling. I’m sorry, but that is quite ridiculous. I understand the factors affecting everything. However, this will effect the hobby greatly. A 35% increase in 7 years far outstrips wage increases and inflation. If Brexit is the cause, perhaps things might get better, but honestly I don’t see costs coming back down. I suspect many more than usual will be buying bargains specifically in the future.

Yes, yes, yes. I've edited my post. It was early in the morning and I was lacking coffee when I typed it.

See... unfortunately I would have to disagree. I am also an amateur astronomer and astrophotographer. Our hobby has as well been hit by higher prices, but this has had less of an effect overall because those willing to purchase a $1000 scope aren't going to fret over a few hundred more. Its mainly affected eye pieces. The most concerning aspect though is the loss of our youth. My Astronomy club has taken notice of this and it has been a continuing trend the last decade. I have an explanation for that as well... and it goes affects more than just model railroading, astronomy and traditional hobbies. It has had a large effect on sports as well. The recent surge in popularity of online gaming, streaming and eSports has indeed made a huge dent in hobbies and sports in general. I know this because I also stream and produce YouTube videos. While we may not know the total impact of this, there is indeed an impact that can not be denied. Its a different time with a different generation of youth with different tastes. But... as you said... maybe they'll find their way to the hobby when they get older. Of course that doesn't necessarily help on the now.

For those interested, the Sherman Tanks that had been coming soon are now in stores. I know this is of interest for some who purchased both Oxford and Hattons Warwells.

I have purchased a box of N gauge Peco code 55 and three Peco Viaduct kits... Building will begin in earnest. I have decided that for the benchwork I will go with two hollow core doors. The only downside is this puts me at about 13". Another downside is elevating the track. I imagine I can just build foam up about four or five inches wchich should allow me to fit the viaduct in. The concern here though is with the turnouts and operating them. The other consideration I now have is simplifying the layout. Though I love this design, the point work alone would be fairly expensive on account of the slips. I have been thinking about modelling Ormside, which would allow me to build almost a prototype and the pointwork layout is fairly simple. It models closely to Ais Gill, having a crossover and two layby sidings. This might be a good option as it would allow me to actually finish the layout quicker and more easily. Interested to hear thoughts on this, as this will be my first layout.

I wasn't starting from anything really, I was merely furthering a discussion on a comment others had made about rising prices, which we have pretty much determined is indeed happening. On the flip side... sound and DCC being integrated into locomotives has become noticeably less expensive.

So then the question moving forward is how to keep things economical... I think in OO gauge I would have no issues applying many of the separately applied finer details. That might help keep cost down there, as opposed to having a laborer in China do it. If course in N Gauge its not so simple, being such a smaller scale. I don't know that I could do it. Does the UK ever do a VAT holiday? For example, some states here in the US forgo state taxes for a day. I can only imagine that might be a boon and help recoup some of the cost increase. The only other thing I can think of us moving production. I read that here in the States, production costs are now almost on par with China. Maybe its not longer cost effective to produce there, and other alternatives should be searched out. I'm sure the companies are doing that.

Very good point. Even today some good deals can be had, but there aren’t as many. The Hotnby T9 is one such I can think of going for 69.99 and just a spectacular model. Then there is the Deltic Prototype. I mentioned in another thread it’s back for preorder. This is a ten year old model almost and it’s increased in price almost 25%. So this begs the question, has labor and production costs in China raised 25% the past decade.

No surprise given its popularity. I missed the boat the first time around... and now will pay for missing out. 123.00 is the price now. I think that's a good 15.00 more than it used to be. Rising prices are even hitting pre-existing tooling

And this very well could be true. Perhaps "poor seller" was not the right term. A better statement would be "not financially rewarding" or something to that effect. And in those cases, sometimes sales has nothing to do with it even. There are so many factors right now affecting prices.

I don't think they are "intentionally" doing it. I think some things just sell poorly. And it doesn't help the hobby isn't as popular as it once was and the UK is a much smaller consumer base than the US. But even prices in the US have been on the rise. Partly China is to blame. So to is the need for "super detailed" everything. There are numerous factors. Numerous. One only need look at Hornby's bottom line for the issues they are having. As a result, its obvious that all companies have scaled back production across the range of new engines, etc. One need only compare the current year to years past. That is what lead me to suspect chasing certain variants has put them partly in the position they are in. View this as a market correction. We have gone from Bulls to Bears. I would expect more of the same moving forward. Higher prices, scaled back releases, etc. It's just business.

I just don't get that. I mean, I believe what you are saying. I guess I just can't believe they wouldn't be a large draw based upon how easy it is to renumber engines with decals and the ability to purchase name plates these days. I mean, you could have a fleet of Black 5s and other engines that don't even need names. Very unfortunate.

It's N and OO. Really its making double think my expenditures. I am by no means poor. Wife and myself both work, have good jobs. I could afford and absorb, but with other competing hobbies, its a matter of I just don't want to absorb. Prices have outpaced inflation and we are fast approaching ridiculousness. Whether its rising prices in China or what... I don't completely buy it. Personally, I partly suspect this is the culmination of poor production choices by the companies, focusing on models that sell poorly. As a result, they have to make up for lost profit somehow. I rather see less models released of more popular variants at a cheaper price point. Its easy enough to renumber and rename models. Actually... why don't the companies offer un-numbered variants? This is done here in the U.S. with almost every model. Both unpainted and unnumbered.

That was it! Thank you soooo much!!!

A while back I came upon (by luck) a meticulously compiled list of all the steam engines that ran on the S&C during the 40-60s. I can not find it no matter how much I search and am seeing if anyone here knows the website by chance.