PAD

Hi Deano,

Thanks. I'm using an Araldite variant at the moment but I don't know which one.

Horses for courses. The brass bracket is soldered, but I think it's easier to glue the white metal seat in place. It's in an awkward place and holding it and soldering right first time is hit and miss. With the epoxy you have time to adjust, and for what it is and where it is, the glue is OK.

Same with the white metal chimney and dome which will also be epoxied.

Cheers,

Peter.

Hi Pete,

Vey nice clean work. I see you have a slight dink in the running plate edge just ahead of the left hand splasher. If there's one thing I don't like about the Finney kits it's the scale thickness edges. They are so vulnerable during the build and I've lost count of the number of times I have had to straighten the edge on the A3. Personally I'd be happier with a bit more meat on the edges.

Cheers,

Peter.

Hi David,

Double chimney, blinkers?

David Hill, go to jail, go directly to jail, do not pass go and do not collect £200. Consider yourself chastised. Hahaha.

Yes I've read your build. Very nice.

On the wheels I prefer Slaters, and will be getting the standard bogie/tender wheels. I don't like the idea of the push on ones for Finney kits, and the standard ones work fine, as I've shown on here.

Cheers,

Peter

Hi Shebushe,

Everything mentioned by Doilum.

However, I would suggest you get a copy of "Etched Loco Construction by Iain Rice. That will tell you all you need to know and the relevant tools (many of which you will have). It's out of print but you can find copies on eBay and Amazon.

There are lots of fancy tools you can buy these day (I've got some myself) but you don't need them. They are nice to have if you can afford them but this is kit building and you can do it with a few simple hand tools on the kitchen table.

Eileen Emporium is a good source for tools and all manner of useful bits and pieces. They have a website and you can order online.

Cheers,

Peter

The main cab structure is now completed and screws nicely to the running plate and fire box. Here is the cab and roof which is designed to slot in place. I'll probably glue it after painting. Like the running plate it is built up on a sacrificial jig which is removed with a cutting disc when completed.

And screwed to the running plate.

At this point I couldn't resist a preview with the tender. The chimney and dome are just placed for the photo.

As I had folded up the cylinder etch I thought I'd continue with it. First you have to laminate the six etchings that make up the slide bars. Here they are still pinned to a piece of wood after soldering. The pins keep them all aligned and are the cut off and filed back. The short extension on the right is later cut off to allow the cross head to fit between the slide bars. 

After a good deal of fettling and cleaning up and with the cross heads added.

And with the folded cylinder frame.

And soldered in place. The front and rear plates have rectangular holes into which the forward extensions of the slide bars locate. Makes it easy to line them up correctly.

Then the valve guides were added.

And then the cylinder covers and relief valves.

Here's the slide bar bracket being modified to suit the medium width frame spacers that I used.

The kit makes no provision to link the valve gear bracket to the cylinders. This is only linked with the valve gear itself.

As I want the cylinders and valve gear to be de-mountable as a unit I added a couple of stretchers from waste etch. Also it means I can build the valve gear off the frames which is easier. As the valve gear support is higher than the cylinders, I used a couple of corner pieces from one of the waste NS frets. Here they are ready for soldering. The shorter vertical lengths were cut down afterwards.

And soldered together.

Here's the unit in the frames.

Further forward on the frames I have added the remaining spacer which incorporates the front footsteps.

And at the other end I've added the footsteps on the sloping running plate at the side of the fire box. Some judicious "panel beating" with a jeweller's hammer on the underside of the running plate below the firebox, has removed one or two slight gaps to give a perfect fit. The firebox is only screwed not soldered to the running plate. The design of this kit really facilitates this type of construction which will be a boon at the painting stage.

The cab floor castings have also been added, as has a NS base to back plate casting. This has been drilled and tapped 10 BA to allow easy removal and fitting for painting. The cab seat castings have also been epoxied in place on the etched supports soldered to the cab sides.

This is the underside of the running plate showing the various screws securing it to the boiler and cab. At the front the two 10BAs into the smoke box. In the middle is the 6BA nut (On the topside of the cross member) for the front chassis retaining bolt. At the rear are 10BAs either side to the rear of the slope with one in the middle securing the firebox to the running plate. The larger central hole allows the 10BA bolt securing the back plate, to be inserted into the hole in the footplate to screw into the plate at the bottom of the back plate. Across the drag beam at the back are the two 10BAs securing the back of the cab. Inwards from them are the holes for the 6BA rear chassis retaining bolts. Finally the middle hole is for the draw bar. As mentioned earlier this is not all as designed, but the kit does lend itself to these modifications.

And finally in this post a couple of gratuitous preview shots with the tender. The chimney and dome are just placed for the photos.

A bloody marvellous kit and an absolute joy to build. Having sold some earlier models from lesser kits to raise a "war chest", I now have the Finney 7 A4 in the pipeline. Happy days.

Cheers,

Peter.

Here are the parts for the fire box former.

After assembly and the wrapper added.

For the smoke box saddle you have an etched or cast option. I chose the castings which are in two parts. You need to remove 5mm from the sides of one to achieve the correct length. After cutting with the razor saw and fettling up (makes a change to have to do some fettling on this kit), I soldered the two parts together on the inside with 145 degree solder. Plenty of flux, temperature turned down on the TCS, and in and out quick. "Job's a good un". The joint on the outside will be covered by the steam pipes so no need to worry about that.

And with the boiler in place.

The casting needed a little fitting to the curve of the smoke box by rubbing on emery wrapped around it, but not much.

The fit is very good even just placed on the running plate.

And the fit at the cab end.

I decided it was time to get rid of the cradle so that I could check the fit of the chassis. I first drilled and tapped 6 BA a temporary hole in the smoke box over the chassis fixing hole in the running plate. At the rear, I drilled through the running plate into the firebox bottom plate. the holes in the running plate were opened to clear 10 BA bolts, and the holes in the firebox tapped 10 BA. After screwing the running plate and boiler together, I cut of the cradle with a slitting disc. Here's the running plate on its own. With the cradle removed, I was able to clean up all the crud that had built up in all the nooks and crannies.

​And screwed together.

Here's the fixing screws at the rear. After removing the cradle, I found I had got them positioned under the top edges of the rear frame extensions so had to move them out. I also moved them forward a little and added another fixing at the rear of the firebox.

At the front, I soldered a strip of thick NS waste etch across the temporary fixing holes inside the smoke box. at the front. I then drilled a hole either side of the chassis fixing hole in the cross member on the running plate. Then I drilled into the smoke box and the thick NS strip. The holes in the cross member were widened to clear 10 BA bolts and the holes in the smoke box tapped 10 BA.

Here are the main parts for the cab. The 6BA nuts are for securing the chassis and the 10 BA for securing the cab to the running plate. The cab will not be soldered, only screwed in place to the back of the firebox and the running plate.

And all screwed together, chassis and all.

To improve the look of the bogie, I have changed the cheese head 10 BA bolts for counter sunk ones.

Virtually invisible now and will be better when painted.

And a shot with the right hand cab side held in place with blue tack.

Looking more and more like an A3.

Cheers,

Peter

Hi Pete,

Nice work so far.

Cheers,

Peter

Hi The pug is well underway. I have the BR lettering and works plates to add. The brass window spectacle rims, crew and coal. Plus it is to be made quite well weathered. It was a time consuming little loco especially as it's so small a prototype. Also there is the cab interior to paint.

 

Hi Ken,

Very nice as always, but time consuming?

 

Started on the 2nd March and almost done and dusted on the 13th!

 

Cheers,

Peter

That appears to be a well thought out idea!

 

 

Emma

Hi Emma,

Yes I agree. It's the first time I've come across it. It could be done even if cleats are not required under the boiler, as they could just be tabs that are snipped off after soldering.

Cheers,

Peter.

On the bogie all the soldering is done and the cast springs added. The space for the slider can be seen and the inner surface were rubbed smooth and polished, as was the sliding brass block.

And with the slider block, side control springs and the top screwed on.

The bogie pivot is fastened to the spacer with a 6BA bolt and will be soldered later.

And with the bogie in place. I gave it a push around the biggest curve on my brother's layout and it seemed OK. The cartazzi axle box needs some attention though.

At the moment the spring lifts the front driving wheels as there is not enough weight to keep them down.

And a full length view of the chassis underside.

Decided to go back to the body and get the two boiler sections rolled. This is the parallel section. It has a neat joining strip for the joint which incorporates two of the boiler bands cleats.

The cleats fold up on the joining strip and fit through slots in the boiler.

Here's the rear former added.

The front smoke box ring which is a 2 piece laminate. The holes for the handrail pillars in the outer ring are only half etched on the inside and need drilling through. This allows for those loco which had the handrails cut short and the pillars removed from the smoke box ring.

And with a couple of drill bits to line up the outer ring before soldering.

Here are the two sections completed. The coned part has a similar joining strip but with only one set of cleats.

And screwed together.

And sat on the running plate.

Next up the firebox.

Cheers,

Peter

Do me a favour and take these Twitter posts elsewhere. I don't mind the odd question relevant to my posts, but this is turning into a p**sing contest over who's got the biggest tool!

Do you have to use some 'padding' under the workpiece while punching rivets?

 

 

Emma

Hi Emma,

No you don't need any. The anvil has a recess to punch the rivets into. It comes with three anvil, for 7mm, 4mm and 2mm, plus two punches, one for punching half etch rivets and one for punching rivets in virgin metal.

The sliders are not required for half etch rivets and as Horsetan mentioned, the side to side one is best removed as it gets in the way. It's not cheap but it's the best available.

Cheers,

Peter

Further progress on the running plate. This is the front end with the curved drop plate and  frame extensions added.

The  rubbing plate added to the  drag box.

And the  splashers added.

These are  the  parts  for the  valve cover boxes prepared for  soldering. The four raised rectangles towards the  right are the  hinges for and  inspection cover. I overlooked to pop the  rivets before  I soldered the  plates in place but luckily could  get to them underneath an pop them insitue. Also as this  plate is half etch with raised detail, it  is  not possible  to half etch the perimeter of  the  inspection cover.  Again I should  have  scribed this  in the  flat but  had  to do it  afterwards. Duuurh!

Here they are in place. There are Three further  inspection covers at the  front which need the  hinges soldering in place. The half etch outline  for  the covers stops short of  the  running plate edge, so these also need scribing.  Again, better if  I had  done  it  in the  flat. 

If you  look closely (sorry for  the poor images) you  can just see the  hinge bolts added to the hinges for  the  smaller rearward covers.  These are @ 2mm lengths of  0.45 mm brass rod.

Here are the sand pipes castings added for the middle  wheels, and  0.8mm NS rod for the front ones. I need to adjust the  NS ones slightly  as  they are a bit  close.

Next the  bogie. I'm using cast bogie springs from Ragstone which are  in fact Bulleid ones but  very similar so will be Ok tucked away under the  frames. I'm also using a sprung side  control unit from Gladiator. Excellent  service again from David and  Trish.  Ordered on Monday, received on Wednesday.  The  unit  is  just tacked at the  moment  until I'm happy all is  lines up correctly.

And placed under the  frames. Starting  to look like  an A3 now.

And finally  my new  toy that my wife bought  me for my birthday.  I not  used  it much yes, but  I'm really impressed with it. Excellent tool. Wish I had it  earlier  when I was doing the  coal bunker with that myriad of  rivets!

Cheers,

Peter

Looks good. Just discovered this build and have enjoyed reading your thread. A few good tips in there too that I will 'borrow!'

By the way modelling isn't my primary job, I own a vegetarian cafe.

Keep up the good work.

Nick Dunhill

Hi Nick,

Thanks for the kind words.

I stopped by your bench at Kettering to have a closer look at the Whitby Tank after following your build on Western Thunder. One of the Finney 7 boys was engrossed in it so I didn't get a chance to have a good look. What I could see was extremely impressive. The joinery on the underside of the roof and locker are a very nice touch.

Yes, I heard about your cafe in Sheffield. Is it anywhere near the University? If so I'll pop in for a sarnie next time I'm down there seeing my son.

Cheers,

Peter

From a modeller's perspective, it doesn't matter how much of a preservered loco is original or not. It's whether or not the replaced parts are the same in appearance to the originals that matter.

As far as the frame rivets are concerned I just went for it and popped them all. There may have been some locos that ran in service with the frames like this, but who knows. It's nigh on impossible to find definitive period photos that clearly show the whole rivet pattern of any particular engine, at a particular time. Once the wheels are on and it's painted most of them will be obscured so why get hung up on them. In 4mm I guess they would be invisible. Frame holes are another nightmare.

This is FS during a recent overhaul. Some rivets, blanked off oval hole and a round hole. Unless you are modelling as in preservation now, this photo is useless as it is over 50 years since it ran in service, and between building and withdrawal the frames will have had numerous repairs. I like to put on what can be seen and I know was there but sometimes you have to be pragmatic.

By the way Horsetan, it would be good to see some build posts of the 4mm version for comparison.

Cheers.

Peter

Hi Mick,

Nice work on the bleeder valves and the plumbing around the tanks. Adding the valves is definitely worthwhile, as is the vent on the roof just to the side of the fan.

It's good to see it on the bogie at last.

If those disc wheels are 4ft 2in diameter I can swap them for the spoked ones on the A3!

Have you been able to get the retaining screw for the body in OK above the rear bogie? You thought it might not be possible.

I see all those nice handles you made for the inspection panels and cab doors have all fallen off. You won't find them again in the carpet void!

Cheers,

Peter

First up was a correction to the left hand trailing axlebox spring. I noted in one of the earlier photos that it was not seated correctly in the box.

Then on with the driving wheel springs which are 3 part etched laminates. I've seen some builds where these have been replaced with cast items from Ragstone or Hobbyhorse, as they are a bit lacking as the come. However, I decided with a little modification they would be OK. Here's one prepared ready to fit, with the three laminates next to it.

As can be seen, the retaining nuts on the shackles are represented on the etchings which is the main deficit in the parts. After laminating, I filed off the "nuts" when cleaning up. Here are the first 3 fitted to the left hand side.

After fitting all 6, I then drilled a shallow hole into the base of each shackle , and soldered in a short length of 14 BA bolt and a nut. Here they are after cleaning up.

I think they are more than acceptable tucked away behind the wheels. I scored a line just above the shackle on each hanger to represent the joint.

Next the break rigging.

The hangers, shoes, cross beams and pull rods are made up from half etch lamination so are a bit one dimensional. I thought about replacing these with Ragstone cast items, but decided to save the cash and see what I could make of the etchings.

The connecting pins for the brake blocks and pull rods are represented by punch out rivets. I thought that drilling these out and replacing with brass rod would go a long way to improving the appearance.

Here are the hangers and shoes ready for fitting. The small etchings are the hanger brackets.

The cross beams and pull rods require 18 holes to be drilled, so are more time consuming. As the pull rods are only half etched they are very thin, so I decided to beef them up by laminating lengths of brass strip to the upper edges. Here they are after laminating the cross beams. The top left pull rod already has a length of brass strip soldered in place on the side touching the mat.

Here's a view from the other side with the added strip now bottom left. Before laminating the pull rods, I drilled out the rivets on this side. Afterwards I drilled all the way through to fit the 0.7mm rod for the connecting pins.

The whole unit was placed on a length of wood, and the pins added one at a time after drilling into the wood through each hole.

After soldering, the pins were snipped to the same length using a simple "gauge" bottom right in this photo. It's just a suitable thickness of waste etch with a hole drilled near the end to fit over the rod. Then push down tight and snip with side cutters.

Here they are all snipped to length but not yet cleaned up.

After cleaning up the unit was carefully prised out of the wood, snipped on the other side and cleaned up.

I think it's a big improvement and will pass muster when viewed from normal viewing angles.

Here it is all fitted.

To complete the brake rigging I made some L shaped brackets to fit over the pivot rods on the front and middle brakes.

And added the front pull rods, cranks and brake cylinders. Not sure if the cylinders will foul the bogie wheels, but will find that out later.

I've checked and found that I can get the wheels in and out past the brakes, even set relatively close to the wheels.

As the chassis is now well advanced, I decided to move on to the running plate for a bit of a change.

Here are the valances prepared for folding on the integral jig.

The rear of the valance is folded inwards before folding up the drag beam. It needs to be curved so I sanded a suitable piece of wood to the radius on the drawing to assist making the bend.

The folded assembly.

And after adding the running plate.

The state of play so far.

I picked up some cast bogie springs plus the injectors from Ragstone at Kettering yesterday. Surprisingly these parts were not included by MF, but from speaking to the F7 boys learned that the springs will be when they reintroduce the kit. The injectors are mostly hidden behind the rear frames under the cab, but my Acme A4 has them so I'm not leaving them off this baby!

Cheers,

Peter

Hi Pete,

Sorry you could not make Kettering. The Duchess ran well on the test track which is less than perfect, so I was well pleased. I can get it stripped down for painting now.

The show was very quiet and many many of the traders did not make it. Still I got the various bits and pieces on my shopping list and had a good chat with the guys from Finney 7.

You must have been like a kid with a new toy when the parcel arrived. Looking forward to seeing your progress, but don't forget the Duchess.

Cheers,

Peter

Hi David,

Yes, they certainly  do what it  says on the tin!

Cheers,

Peter

Oh yes I nearly forgot. I was uming and aring as to Kettering. If you are going and you intend to bring her ladyship then I think I'll make the trip. I would very much like to see her.

 

Let me know

 

Pete

Hi Pete,

Yes I will be going to Kettering and bringing her ladyship. The loco not the missus.

Cheers,

Peter

I have now added the splayed out framing to the rear of the chassis. I managed to bend and fit the the left hand side first time, but the right hand one needed two or three corrections to get it to fit correctly. The two sides are identical so that was down to me not the part. Once the sides were on, the remaining spacer/drag box was fitted.

And with the axlebox keeps fitted.

And a view from the rear. The spring that holds the cartazzi slider in place and gives some side control can be seen.

I switched back to the tender as I wanted to see if I could make the buffers self contained as outlined by Mickoo on one of his threads. I felt the biggest challenge would be to drill vertically through the buffer head accurately. This proved to be the case as although I have a vertical drill stand for the mini drill, the machine vice I have would not hold the buffer dead vertical. So I went to plan B which involved a compromise by moving the buffer inwards slightly as suggested in the instructions. Fortunately I had a spare pair of buffers so was able to press on.

First the buffer beam holes were elongated with a round file and the buffer modified as below.

Next the spigot on the buffer housing was cut off and filed flush, and the retaining nut had a flat filed on to it.

The nut can be held with a finger whilst the buffer head is screwed in. The flat on the nut then slides on the inside of the tender frame when the head is compressed . Here they are after fitting.

The steam heating and brake pipe are provided as coil springs, but I don't like them so I made my own from suitable brass tube.

First the coil effect is made by adding a thread using an 8BA die. Then I anneal the tube to aid bending. In this case the bore of the tube was too small to fit on the spigot on the brake swan neck and steam heating valve, so had to be drilled out to widen the diameter.

The brake pipe was soldered to the top spigot after the bottom one had been cut off. I then bent in at the bottom and soldered it to the lower fixing. The steam heating pipe had to be drilled at both ends as there is casting for the joint at the bottom which has a loop for the storage chain. The chain was made from twisted copper wire.

And a closer view.

Moving back to the loco frames I thought I'd complete the detailing on the cartazzi frames. Here are the parts after preparing. 14 etched parts, 2 cast NS and 2 WM castings, so it was quite a while before I needed to fire up the iron.

I added the steps and the tiny etched rivet strips first, cleaned up then added the axlebox. This latter item has a mounting spigot on the rear which locates in a hole in the frame, so I was able to solder it in place with 145 from the rear. This makes cleaning up easier as you can give it some stick with the scraper without risking any damage to the casting. The spigot needs to be filed flush to avoid fouling the trailing wheel. Afterwards the springs/hangers were added. These are only soldered at the shackles at the bottom of the hangers. There is a central spigot that locates in the top of the axlebox and I will run some super glue in later. Finally the "U" shaped safety brackets for the springs were added.

Here's a view from the underside.

To complete this area, the front lower firebox was added, along with the boiler drain/wash out tap casting. The corner wash out plugs are made from 1mm square rod.

Here's the tap and wash out plugs on the right hand side. On the left there are only the two wash out plugs.

Cheers,

Peter

Hi Tony,

Looking good as always.

I like  the  oil pots on the  upper slide bars. Are they integrally cast or added separately?

Cheers,

Peter

Hi Pete,

Then you  pays your money and  takes your choice.  I can't  help you  further on the splasher/lub. pipe covers, and  you  were in fact ahead of me on this.  If they were originally fitted pre war,  I think it's likely they started to disappear during the  war to aid maintenance, and post war shortages of  labour would  have  meant that the  luxury of  these cosmetic covers could  no longer  be  afforded. I would  suggest they were no longer  there  in the  1950s.

I'm convinced the  heat shield should  be  there.

You mention modelling mid 50s to early 60s which is  not possible.  Early 50s to around 1957 or  so,  they were in lined green with the  early logo. Without checking, I can't  remember when some were painted red.  After about  1957 the  later BR emblem was introduced, so for  DoS in green, you can go for  pre 1957ish or post 1957ish to withdrawal in the  60s. Also after 1957, speedos and  AWS were added.

Cheers,

Peter

Hi Peter (PAD),

 

I think you are misreading Peter B's photo. The pipes are not under the footplate, but running between the top of the splasher and bottom of a cover that is clamped over them in 3 places. The giveaway is that the front and back faces of the front splasher (only) on all Duchesses are proud of the top. In t'other Peter's photo, they are flush, which means there must have been a decorative cover clamped over the pipes. I cannot see this as being anything other than a preservation affectation, but I am very happy to be proved wrong.

 

Richard

Hi Richard,

It was not  so much that I was misreading Petebe's photo, more that I did not  know  what to make  of  it, and  was guessing. Also I did not  realise that the  pipes on CoB are running not  just over the  top of  the  splasher, but  in a  channel. Petebe mentioned it in his post but  again I did not  understand what he  meant.

Having looked through  my CoB photos I found a much better illustration of the  front splasher (RH side). The raised edges you  mention on the  front and  rear faces can be seen, as can the  pipes running over the  top in a channel and  the  central clamp and  nut. I was only stood about 4 feet away when I took the  photo, and  the  channel just did not  register.  Not  seeing  the  wood for  the  trees!

I also found this  image of  46229 DoH in the  Power of  the  Duchesses which I have cropped. It's not  clear but  I think it  is  showing the  same  thing. 

I wonder why they bothered to cover the  pipes on DoS, when so many more  are visible  further  back???

What about  the heat shield  next to the  fire hole door? Do you  agree that is  should  be  present and  that the  bolt holes I mention are where  it  was  fitted?

Cheers,

Peter