Argos

Hi GWRswindon, There is another history written by "Manifold" which I believe is a pseudonym used by a group of NSR enthusiasts. I haven't read it yet as I'm still trying to track down a reasonable prices copy. As with most railways it is the branch and secondary lines that seem to get all the published attention. There is a comprehensive NSR bibliography here http://www.nsrsg.org.uk/books.php

Ah! indeed we have. I asked you the same question over there! At least I'm consistent. I'm about to dig the drawing board out and draw the building up. I'm too tight to buy the Alphagraphix kit (it's the wrong scale anyway) I already have their signal box and goods shed kits to crib from.

I've seen a couple of models of Dromahair station building now, are there published plans somewhere or did you scale from photos? Your model is immediately recognisable and very nicely done. Thanks Angus

The Knotty did indeed provide the motive power for the Manchester -Euston service. The change over point was Stoke. Although I always presumed this was via Macclesfield rather than Crewe due to the shorter distance. The Knotty's range of tank engines was normally sufficient for this service. Using Stoke as a change over point ways puzzled me as the LNWR had no engine shed or servicing facilities at Stoke.

Here we go. They were the G class:- https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/NSR_G_class These were tender versions of the 4-4-2 (K class I think)

Hi Webbcompound, The NSR built some 4-4-0 tender engines specifically for this service. As it was their premier express I would think it would use the modern bogie stock. I'll see if I can dig out some details tomorrow.

I should also add one imaginary line that was planned although I don't think got submitted to Parliament might be worth investigation. The NSR did at one point promote its own line to Liverpool across the Cheshire plan with a viaduct across the Mersey of a similar length to the bridge at Runcorn. If my memory serves me correctly this was probably more political manoeuvring because the LNWR at the time was running its Manchester traffic via Crewe over its own rails thus depriving the NSR of revenue. The route through Stoke to Manchester is shorter. The NSR were very conscious of the power of their larger neighbour and the fact the the majority of their traffic departed (or entered) via connections to the LNWR at Colwich, Norton Bridge, Macclesfield and Crewe. The LNWR in turn was always concerned that the NSR might fall into the ownership of a rival in the form of the Midland or the GCR (if memory serves even the GWR were sniffing around at one point). They reached a truce whereby the LNWR routed a proportion of its Manchester traffic via Stoke and had running rights over the entire NSR network with a similar reciprocal arrangement for the NSR. The NSR used these running rights for its longest passenger service from Derby to Llandudno which ran further on the LNWR than on its own metals, despite being NSR hauled for the whole journey. It also accessed Buxton over the LNWR from the Middlewood curve off the Macclesfield - Marple line.

Hi GWRSwindon (you need to change that name! ) I live a hundred yards from the old Macclesfield - Uttoxeter (Churnet Valley) line and planned to give the NSR running powers over my proposed imaginary 7mm scale line (now in stasis). This has given me an interest in the NSR and I'm slowly amassing what published information is available on the NSR. Also a couple of years ago I worked in Derby and occasionally used the Stoke-Derby service to commute to work. In terms of freight traffic on the Derby - Crewe line two items of freight specific to the line have not been mentioned. The area around Tutbury has significant gypsum deposits and various plaster mills existed along the line. There has been a very nice compact model of one of these in 4mm scale set in the early LMS period. Also near Tutbury is a very large Nestle factory which was built around 1900. This would have generated inbound traffic with ingredients, predominantly milk, and out bound finished product. There is no book specifically on NSR coaches, the NSR is a relatively esoteric subject. There are three nice elevations of the NSR 49' bogie stock in Historic Carriage Drawings Volume Two LMS and Constituents by David Jenkinson (Etches also available from the Allen at the Worsley Works http://www.worsleyworks.co.uk/?LMCL=eSZazE ) . There is also a slim volume entitled North Staffordshire Railway Locomotives and Rolling Stock by R.W. Rush which contains drawings of the four and six wheeled carriages as well as the later bogie stock. The drawings are quite small though (four to an A5 size page). For track plans I suggest you look for the various line histories, there isn't a specific book of track plans. Hope that all helps.

Thanks Northroader that is really helpful. The Irish Lines Drawing index indicates a drawing of the A class held by J.P James, I just need to work out how to access this. The Beyer Peacock archive is a bit odd as the MoSI removed the online access a few years ago. I have enquired about accessing the archive to identify and get a copy of drawings relevant to the SLNCR but was guided to their photo site that has a very limited number of drawings on it. From there I was able to order a print of the Leitrim class drawing (which felt expensive at £20 + P&P for an A3 print). Bizarrely I couldn't order a copy of the drawing unless I was going to use it for professional purposes (and presumably pay an associated premium). I can't help thinking there is a lot more in the archive. I'll have to track down a copy of Locos of the GNRI (if I can find a reasonably prices copy) price seem to start at £50 from my online search which a bit steep! Mind you it does equate to only 2.5 drawings from MoSI!

Hi Northroader, the SLNCR did buy a couple of the earlier GNR A classes. One was swapped because it was so knackered. They lasted until 1948. I'm trying to track down a drawing if you know of an sources? One of the pair was named Sligo and is seen here in 1947 from Ernies Railway Archive

Hi Damo666, A Sir Henry class is on the "to do" list albeit behind the older slightly prettier Leitrim class. The Irish Railway Record Society have a set of drawings available for the Sir Henry That I'll have to purchase in due course. I've already got a GA of the Leitrim class from the Beyer Peacock archive at the Museum of Science and Industry in Manchester.

I've now got a three axle chassis, the plain muff has been swapped out and replaced with the geared muff and the whole lot run under power. I'm happy to say that all seems well. The wider gauge did cause a few challenges, the axles are too far apart to get enough "bite" in the muff so I was suffering from the wheels going out of quarter and gauge. A drop of superglue in the muff sorted this. If I'm feeling brave I may get the crankpin washers soldered on this evening. .......or I may quit whilst I'm ahead!

I'm led to believe the issue was clearance inside the splashes, the wheels were also turned down. It's not a detail that stands out on the real thing let alone at 2mm scale.

Progress has been slow. I got to the point that where the track was painted and stalled. I really want to get something running to check the gauge and clearances before I buried everything in ballast. It is rapidly becoming apparent that I won't have time to scratch build one of the Bayer Peacock 0-6-4t in time for June, at least not if I want to get all the other elements of the layout complete. I was casting around for a cheat when I remembered that a couple of Jintys where re-gauged and sent across to Ireland. A quick trawl of the internet revealed the NCC (UTA) Y class which consisted of a pair of re-gauged LMS Jinties used to shunt Belfast docks. For the period I am modelling both had been repainted in UTA livery. In my alternate reality the SLNCR suffered a couple of breakdowns leaving it short of motive power (not that far a stretch, the three Sir Henry classes were approaching 50 years old and undergoing heavy maintenance work. the remaining member of the Leitrim class Hazelwood was another 10 years older). To work the timetable the SLNCR need at least two engines in steam with a spare, so had to borrow one from the UTA. A 3F Jinty would be ideal for the line. It is a neat reversal of fortunes as the UTA ultimately bought the two Lough class locos when the SLNCR closed and used them to replace the two jinties on Belfast docks. As far as I can tell from the photos I found the UTA jinties were standard (apart from the gauge of course) I need to remove the numberplate moulding on the smokebox door as the locos never carried a numberplate. The first stumbling block in the conversion was the parts. Shop 3 only had 2 pairs of 9.5mm wheels available. Jerry (Queensquare) very kindly offered me a spare pair following an appeal in the "any Questions Answered" topic. The wheels, rods and balance weights have all been chemically blacked and the conversion has commenced. As of last night I have 0-4-0 rolling chassis. I've had to remove the brake gear as this clashed with wheels due to the wider gauge (10.5mm). I'll replaced this suitably shimmed out once I'm happy with the chassis. There is also limited clearance behind the rear footsteps so these have been thinned down with a file to provide more room. I may do the same with the front steps as they are now noticeably chunky.

No sorry, it was the Greater Britain class that were red and white.....

There are a couple of books by Bill Simpson on the line that would be worth tracking down. A young Argos received them for Christmas from his parents. At that point (early teens) I had decided I was going to model the LMS with a Midland bent as more was available. These books sent me down a different route and started my passion for the LNWR. The line saw the Problems finishing their days after displacement from mainline services. These little engines in full flight with a light train of LNWR carriages must have been a sight to behold. Shortly after reading the books my Hornby station building was removed and replaced with a card and stone paper model of Bicester station based on the plans in Vol 1. This was followed by a good shed from lords Bridge scaled from photos in the book. I always though Islip would have made a great model but the there is much of architectural interest along the line. This includes some tudor-esq (there is probably a posh architectural term for them) timber and brick stations.

Likewise David, and I rather think I owe you a drink for the supply of the 10.5mm roller gauges.

It's all of 100m from where I work, it would be rude not too....... Thanks for highlighting that David.

Love the dog!

Hi Pete, If it doesn't work for you there is no point in investing more hard come by modelling time. No point in looking backwards.

Hi RLWP, I was showing the smaller motors to highlight the range available. On most of the pages linked there are options for 8, 10 and 12mm motors that will offer more power. That said I would expect any model train load for the period to be light anyway.

Cheap is no good if they don't fit! If you are willing to take a punt on ebay then much is available, how well they work is a different matter but then we're not talking much money only a few quid. If you're looking for quality motors with gearboxes built in then Faulhaber have a selction:- 6mm dia by 15mm long:- https://www.faulhaber.com/en/products/series/0615s/ Associated Gearbox with ratios between 4/1 to 4096/1:- https://www.faulhaber.com/en/products/series/061/ These don't come cheap though :- https://www.glockenankermotor.com/index.php/cat/c3_0615---S-Faulhaber.html/XTCsid/92c511c00ae7856709f0dca477c9f786 Some alternate ready made solutions in various scales here:- https://www.sb-modellbau.com/index.php?page=gruppe&path=/00000220 Again not cheap, but a more reasonably priced option is:- 4mm motor with gearbox options 80/1 to 2016/1: - https://shop.kkpmo.com/index.php?cat=c339_4mm-Geared-DC-Motors-4mm-Geared-DC-Motors-339.html&XTCsid=0jk0oju6ndo6rjom2jn7drfdh5 6mm range with 5/1 to 700/1 options:- https://shop.kkpmo.com/index.php?cat=c337_6mm-Geared-DC-Motors-6mm-Geared-DC-Motors-337.html&XTCsid=0jk0oju6ndo6rjom2jn7drfdh5 I am sure there are more if you are willing to look. Once you take away the requirement for the gearbox then the options open up even more.

I agree Don, I don't have a vast stockpile of wheels but I have bought some to put into packages for builds so everything is there as and when I get around to starting the build. I suspect there are many of us with these reserves. Perhaps we should set up a wheel swap topic until the drought subsides?

The n20 motors are quite chunky. There are plenty of smaller options out there. Some even have combined gear boxes. I'm not sure why anyone would restrict themselves to a N20 motor if modelling a small prototype?

Not a question rather an appeal:- As we know certain loco wheels are now out of stock in shop 3 and I have the fortune/misfortune of securing the last two pairs of 9.5mm drivers. Fortune because all the 8.5 and 9mm drivers have gone. Mis-fortune because I was going to use them to re-wheel a Jinty so need three pairs. Does anyone out there have a spare pair of 9.5mm drivers in their gloat box they would be prepared to part with? Thanks