Dungrange

Whilst your experience may be limited, I think what you highlight is very common. It's the same in my own club, with a limited number of individuals far more active in layout construction and maintenance than the majority: I'll place myself in the 'lazy' half of the club. However, whilst that may seem 'unfair' to those who contribute most, I don't think this is the right way to look at the operation of a model railway club. Speaking from experience, we need all of our members, including those who only turn up occasionally for a cup of tea or to show off their latest toy, and those who simply sit around talking every week, with little interest in actually building anything. Basically as a club we have a number of overheads - rent, electricity and water charges, insurance, etc. Based on our current membership subscription and our current overheads, we need a minimum of about 20, maybe nearer 25, members to cover these overheads. Then we need more money to pay for materials to actually build layouts, so we need another maybe half dozen or so member subscriptions to cover these costs each year. That therefore means that without having somewhere between 25 and 30 members at any point in time, my club would not be sustainable financially. Therefore, if the club committee were to adopt a policy of setting some sort of minimum commitment level and turfing out all the lazy b*****s who don't meet whatever threshold we set, whether than be attendance or modelling output, then subscriptions would have to rise significantly - perhaps to the point where some of the more committed members could no longer afford to be members. It should also be borne in mind, that some members may be relatively new to the hobby and don't feel that they are as skilled as some of the other existing members and therefore don't appear to contribute much. They may in turn become more active on the next layout. I guess the same is true on RMWeb, where even the lurkers and occasional posters have their place. The financing of this website relies on advertising and what advertisers are willing to pay depends on the popularity of the site. All the lurkers who read these threads but never contribute directly are still pushing up the site statistics for the number of members / unique visitors and that in turn helps attract advertisers to pay the running costs. There is nothing inherently wrong with that. Ultimately, attending a model railway club is supposed to be enjoyable - it is not a job. We just don't always define enjoyable in the same way.

Obviously one of the 'grumpy old gits' sent that e-mail, but it does raise another question - at what point would you deem an invite to have lapsed? I've had people in the past who have enquired by e-mail about membership, I've responded providing a link to our website with the address of our club room and a map, highlighted the opening hours for our next meetings, sometimes highlighted which of our layouts we currently have erected for testing and invited them to come down to meet us on whichever of our club nights suits them best. I've sometimes had a response along the lines of "that's great - I won't manage down this week, but maybe next week" and then they never come along. I've tended to assume that they changed their mind, but I guess there comes a point where they may view the invite to come along as having lapsed (and they have missed their chance). Should I re-invite them after, say, two months?

I think that's very important and we have the same policy and the same experiences. A couple of years ago, someone e-mailed me to say that he wanted to become a member, but he couldn't find the "Join Now" button on our website and could I help him sign up for membership. I told him he couldn't join on-line and invited him to just come down to the club to meet the other members and see what we were working on before making that decision. He came down to the club the next week and I spoke to him, as did dome other members, but I've never seen him since. Clearly the goings on in our club that week was not what he was expecting, so I'm sure he was relieved he hadn't paid our subscription fee up front, as he had wanted to do. There have been several others who have visited us once or twice and we've never seen them again. The question that our committee have discussed on more than one occasion is how often should we allow someone to visit (as a non-member) before asking them to become a member? I think we've decided that by the end of someone's third visit, they probably have a good enough idea as to whether or not they think they fit in, so if they come back for a fourth time, that's probably the right time to make sure they have a membership application form and to discuss ways of paying their subscription. Often people ask about joining on their first night, but unless specifically asked, we'd tend not to present them with an application form, and just leave them with the question, "will we see you again next week?". I think the best approach is to convey that they are welcome to come back, but that we are not trying to put pressure on them to part with their subscription fee too quickly.

I'm assuming that this was intended as a reference to the The Model Railway Club in London, which I understand was the first model railway club in the world, although their website says that they were founded in 1910 - https://www.themodelrailwayclub.org/the-club/. It is however possible that the founding individuals first met up in 1909 to discuss the formation of the club. I think the point is that there have been various model railway clubs now for 110 years. Some have survived for a long time, while others have come and gone for various reasons.

That sort of reminds me of the first model railway club that I visited - I probably went three times before deciding that it wasn't for me. I can't say that anyone was unfriendly, but I didn't fit in age wise. At the time, I was 22 and their existing 'young lad' was probably in his late 50's or early 60's. I think every other member of the club was retired - it was what has been referred to previously as a 'last of the summer wine club'. I'd just started my first full-time permanent job, so didn't feel that I had much in common with anyone. I therefore tracked down the next nearest club to me and joined them instead. I was still the youngest member at the time, but at least there were members in their 30's and 40's who I was better able to relate to. Perhaps unsurprisingly, I understand that the first club I had visited folded within a couple of years of my visit. That's why I think my current club is rather fortunate to have members of all ages (17 to 80), which I consider to be a healthy sign. I'm not even sure that any club is ever a 'perfect fit' - I wouldn't regard my current club as a perfect fit for me, and I'm the secretary! My primary interest is the post-privatisation period, whereas most of our club members are interested in the BR Steam Era or narrow gauge railways, so all of our club projects tend to centre around these majority interests. There are other clubs in central Scotland who I think have more members with interests that align with my own, but of course they are less easy for me to get to. As such, I think there is always a need for compromise and whilst at an exhibition, our 1950's branch line will be operated with correct period stock, in the club room, it may well just see a class 66 (mine) running alongside some pre-grouping coaches (belonging to another member). That variety of interests within the club is also a healthy sign.

I'd expand Izzy's reference to DCC Sound to include sound and / or lights. A rake of lit coaches or a brake van with lit tail lamp would require the same feed to every section as shown in Izzy's second image, but if you're sure that you won't want either sound or lights, then I agree that the first of Izzy's diagrams would be adequate.

Yes, that's better. The only potential issue is that you've changed the hand of the point leading into the siding. I'm not sure if that is a problem (ie you already have the points), but if it is, then you should be able to use the right hand point shown in your first plan by moving the left siding closer to the right one. It looks like your loop is now around 15" between clearance points, so depending on the length of your tank wagons, that's probably enough space to allow two one coach trains to pass, but I'd make sure you test the clearances before you commit to the plan.

Thanks Ian - it isn't just everyone with ASD that is different - that applies to the entire population! :-) I'd guess that this boy tends to the milder end of the spectrum, so your experiences are probably relevant. Communication didn't seem to be problem and his mum e-mailed me after his first visit to say that he had really enjoyed himself - he seemed to feel that he fitted in. Not everyone that he spoke to would have known he has any 'problems' (for want of a better word). I guess that this is where it is slightly easier for an autistic child in an adult club than an adult with autism. In this case, I'll be speaking to a child who is nearly 40 years younger than me. The chances of our conversation switching to current affairs, 1970's comedy shows or an event from when I was at university is highly unlikely. These are not things that I'd normally discuss with a typical ten year old, but may with an adult. However, if I was unaware of his condition, I'd be tempted to stray into other subjects. For example, my 11 year old is obsessed with computer games, as are all of his friends, so I could say that there would be a natural tendency for me to assume that he might be as well and bring up the topic as a way of trying to find common interests or things to talk about (other than model railways). There's also the questions about what he likes at school etc that I'd ask a 'normal' child if I was trying to engage them in a conversation. However, I'll avoid that if that's not what he's likely to want or expect. I don't think that there should be too many issues finding something railway related to talk about. I at least have the benefit of being interested in the post-privatisation period, so we are interested in the same era. Your last sentence sounds a lot like me sometimes. I quite often find that I don't know anything about a particular subject, so just keep quiet. Maybe I'm not too far off the spectrum myself. Anyway, thanks for your insight.

I think the loop is too short in the first image. If you intend for this to perform the function of a 'passing loop' then it's not long enough to accommodate both a locomotive and one single coach. Whatever you run in the opposite direction will hit either the locomotive or the coach depending on where your train is placed. If it was only to be used as a 'run round loop' then it looks big enough to accommodate a single coach (there looks to be around 10" between your clearance points), but that doesn't fit with the idea of a fiddle yard either end, which implies through running. As such, I'd prefer your second image, although I'd be tempted to shift the platform to the left, so that it is actually adjacent to a train sitting in the loop, so that you can run round whilst passengers are boarding or alighting from the train. Good luck with whatever you decide.

I'm sure that the original four star review was just referring to the area in general, rather than specifically the viaduct.

Correct - it's not an essential modification. The theory is that the switch contacts in the Cobalt Digital iP point motor will be more reliable than relying on the contact between the switch blade and the stock rail, which may not have sufficient contact pressure to overcome the dirt that may build up on both the switch and the rail. However, that improved reliability won't materialise if you modify the point as indicated and create dry solder joints. Instead, you'll either end up with a dead section or an intermittent problem dependant on your solder joint. Therefore, if soldering isn't your thing and you don't want to adopt Nigel's suggestion of different soldering equipment, then I wouldn't bother trying to modify the point.

I don't think you are alone there - I'd tend to say the same about most of those whom I interact with as well, whether they be work colleagues or members of my model railway club. The relationship is as you say rather superficial: friendly enough, but not particularly deep and bonding. This may sound a bit like a self-help group, but 'thanks for sharing'. Out of interest, given that you have mentioned Autism, how would you prefer or have preferred others to interact with you? I ask, because the gentleman who looks like becoming our newest club member actually only has a passing interest in model railways from his youth, but it is something that his son is very, very interested in and therefore model railways is one of their father / son bonding subjects. His son has apparently been diagnosed as autistic and the father's motivation for joining us is largely to attend with his son. His son seems a nice, well behaved boy, polite and careful with things that don't belong to him and we don't have any issues with the proposed membership arrangement. However, I don't really have any experience of dealing with people with conditions on that spectrum. He seemed quite willing to talk to other members (of all ages) about railways and our layouts (presumably because that's something that he feels he knows about) but I get the impression that he could be quite focused / precise, which maybe comes from a desire to keep the conversation 'on topic'. I can imagine him being a database of facts that interest him and he seemed to be quite good at remembering names. He is about the same age as my own son, yet his behaviour seems a little different from the way my son interacts with his friends and adults. As for a lot of club life being about socialising - I agree with you. Many of our members seem to spend most of their time just chatting to others and every job that needs to be done takes rather longer than it would if everyone was focused on the task. However, I have noticed that sometimes conversation can head off in obscure directions such as discussing Wallace and Gromit or some sketch from Monty Python, the Two Ronnies or some other comedy series from days gone by. I assume it is those deviations from the 'core subject' of railway modelling that you have a 'problem' with, alongside the stories of when someone discusses something that they experienced at work 40 years ago? Am I correct in saying that when you attend a model railway club, your expectation would be that members only discuss model railways? Obviously that won't happen in the case of the club as a whole, but I guess if we know someone prefers conversation to be 'on topic' and they don't like 'off topic' chat then it is easier to try and ensure that we meet their expectations as best we can.

Thankfully we don't have either of these individuals in our club. I only became secretary because when the position became vacant (ie the previous secretary specifically said he no longer wished to continue as secretary) there was a deathly silence with no volunteers willing to join the committee. I didn't really want the position, but after an awkward few minutes I agreed to be nominated and was then unanimously elected. Every AGM is effectively the same - any nominations for Chairman / Secretary / Treasurer? Someone always nominates the incumbent, someone quickly seconds that nomination and then no-one else wants to be nominated, so we have the same one candidate elections each year. However, I can see how both 'types' would cause problems in some clubs.

The first point is just highlighting that you should ignore the myth that turnouts have to be specifically modified for DCC: they don't - wiring for DC and DCC are exactly the same. However, switching the frog independently rather than relying on contact of the switchblades should provide greater reliability under both DC and DCC operation. This is the second option. You don't need to do it, but since you are using Cobalt Digital iP point motors that have built in switching, I would make the modifications such that you are using the Cobalt Digital iP point motor to switch the frog.

I'll admit that looking at an aerial view of an exhibition hall you are likely to see more men than women, and the older demographic is likely to outweigh the younger demographic. Our club is no different - I think we have slightly more members in their 60's than any other age band. The problem is that there seems to be a perception amongst those with an apocalyptic view that the older generation (say those over 70) need to be replaced by teenagers, whereas in reality, they just need to be replaced by someone younger than them, which includes those who take up the hobby at any point in their adult life. Most of our new members tend to be middle aged, although the two who joined us last year both filled gaps in the younger demographic. I agree, although the group of people that he was referring to and the group of people that you saw may have been different. Look at the operators behind the layouts at an exhibition, and I will agree that they are often older gentlemen, but look at the people who have paid to attend the show and there are a lot of families - at least there are at the shows that I attend (though I've never been to Warley). If you define the hobby only as those operating the exhibition layouts, then you are ignoring the next generation of prospective railway modellers, who are pestering their parents to go to the model railway exhibition, because that's what they aspire to. My parents used to take me to the local model railway exhibition each year when I was a teenager. That highlights the imprecise definition of 'old'. To some of us 'old' people are those who are retired from the workforce, but to others 'old' might just mean anyone who isn't a teenager / student. If you take the latter definition, then the hobby is certainly full of 'old' men, but if you take the former view, then there are loads of people in the hobby who are not 'reaching for the summer wine', which includes me.

This reminds me of the fact that sometimes the 'grumpy old git' isn't that old. I recall speaking to a member of another club several years ago (we'd both been members of another club several years before that) about the recent (at that time) death of their club Secretary / Chairman, who was one of their club's founding members: I think he was in his early 50's at the time of his passing. The deceased had been instrumental in setting up the club and saw it very much as 'his club': model railways was his life. Having been in his home on several occasions, it was one of these houses where there were boxes of locomotives and rolling stock in every room: lounge, kitchen, bedroom as well as in his attic. He was a very good modeller, but a bit of a perfectionist but a pretty poor communicator. Anyway, far from the club suffering from the loss of such a central character and skilled modeller, I was informed that the atmosphere in the club had actually improved with his passing. The problem was that the deceased had no dependent family and lived on benefits for a lot of his life. He had all day to sit and cut out individual roof tiles to make the 'perfect' building. However, some of the other members, who had lots of family and work commitments preferred a much less time intensive technique, but were usually told rather bluntly that their efforts weren't up to his standards and such 'crap' wouldn't be going on 'his' club layout. I think many members had found his attitude to their efforts rather demoralising. However, without him, they found the rest of the club more willing to accept the compromises that they had made. Perhaps the standards of their exhibition layouts fell, but everyone within the club seemed to be happier. Maybe 'grumpy old git' should just be 'grumpy git'.

Thankfully your apocalyptic vision of the future is nothing like reality. My club currently has about 25 to 30 members; the youngest is 17 and the oldest is, I think, just turned 80. We have members in their 20's, 30's, 40's, 50's, 60's and 70's. In fact, if I were to line our members up in age order, I don't think there would be any gaps of more than about six or seven years. One woman who visited our club with her son just before Christmas to ask for some advice on building a layout, commented on the great spread of ages in the club (and our 17 year old wasn't there that night). The notion that the hobby is exclusively for old men isn't really true - as our membership demographics show. Our membership has been growing in recent years (albeit very slowly), but new members don't have to be teenagers. Some enter the hobby in middle age and our latest potential member falls into that category: in the older half of those of us who still go out to work - he'd got his first train set for Christmas. That sparked the desire to seek out and engage with like minded people who can help and provide encouragement, which is what model railway clubs should be all about. The reality is that there will be a continuing place for physical model railway clubs for that reason for many years to come.

Starting with the original post, I think expelling someone from a club for being 'grumpy' is a rather dictatorial attitude. As far as I am concerned, those with the 'sling him out' attitude are every bit as much a part of the problem as the 'grumpy old git'. Whilst it's easy to seek to 'blame' the 'grumpy old git', if prospective members don't join, then the issue lies with the other members not being welcoming enough. I suspect that as a hobby we have more than our fair share of what I could consider socially backwards people, and I'll include myself in that category. No-one would describe me as 'the life and soul of the party' and when faced with work events or conferences, I tend to chat mainly to my team and those I already know (to some extent). I don't actively seek to introduce myself to a group of complete strangers - I'm what you could probably call a poor 'networker'. As such, it's all too easy to just ignore the visitor who has walked in the door and keep doing whatever I am doing or continue speaking to whoever I am speaking to - I'd say that's naturally who I am. However, the problem is that if everyone in the club adopts that behaviour, it's not very welcoming and doesn't present a good image. At our club, this was raised by a past secretary several years ago and since becoming club secretary myself, I now make it 'part of the job' to go and introduce myself to all visitors to the club and our club Chairman does likewise. Asking what interests a visitor has - modelling scale(s), gauge(s), location(s), era(s), their level of expertise, skill sets / interests and occupation - often makes it easier to introduce them to someone else in the club. If said visitor is interested in the pre-grouping era, I'll introduce them to one member, but if they are interested in track and signalling, I'll introduce them to someone different. Depending on how friendly the member that I'm introducing them to is, will to some extent govern the extent to which I continue to be involved in the conversation - just in case they think I've dumped them with the 'grumpy old git'. However, on the whole, most of our members are reasonably friendly once 'the ice is broken' and a several visitors over the last few years have commented to me along the lines of 'seems a friendly bunch'. Last year we recruited two new members, but we've also had three prospective members down at the club in recent weeks. One has now given me a completed application form and has been given the club bank account details to set set up a Standing Order. One has been twice in December and has indicated to me that he'll come back and a third visited for the first time on Thursday, but he also asked me about membership because he thought we were a friendly group and he has indicated that he'd like to come back. I'll have to wait and see, but I got the impression that he will. 2020 may therefore be good year with regards recruiting new members at our club. I think the important point is that there needs to be a number of members who are willing to actively make visitors feel welcome and although in our club that is perceived by some as a role for the Chairman and Secretary, everyone has a part to play. Thankfully we don't have any members who could be described as particularly 'grumpy old gits'. Some members are naturally more popular than others, but none are up for eviction and never will be whilst I am on the committee.

It's certainly possible to wire a layout for both DCC or DC operation (but not at the same time) simply plugging in the appropriate controller (DCC or DC). However, the main advantage of DCC is that the whole layout is live. Therefore if primarily wired for DCC operation, you would only be able to operate a single DC locomotive when using your DC controller as the whole layout would be live and connected to that controller. If when operating as a DC layout, you will want more than one locomotive, then you will have to take account of that in your hybrid wiring. That is, you'd either have to wire separate sections (as per DC Cab Control) or you'd have to create isolating sections within your predominantly DCC wiring. Which is the best course of action depends on whether if you are using two or more locomotives, they both need to move at the same time (DC Cab Control) or you just need to be able to isolate a locomotive at one or more discrete locations (DCC isolating sections).

Well, I don't have an e-mail either, but I'm guessing that the Accurascale lads are working through the orders one at a time in the order in which they were placed, so that probably means I'll get an e-mail at some point next week - I didn't pre-order them all that quickly. Since I don't have a layout for them to run on yet, I don't care whether I have to wait a few more days. It doesn't make any difference to my life. I'll only get concerned a few weeks after everyone has posted pictures of their models and I've still heard nothing.

I don't think there is any specific definition of 'mass production' and I think it can be taken to mean slightly different things in different contexts. The price issue is all about batch sizes and therefore the purchasing power of those placing the orders. The factories in China will have a cost associated with producing any item (labour and materials) and on top of that they will add a margin to ensure that their manufacturing facilities make a profit. Those placing an order for their services (eg Bachmann or Apple) will try to seek a discount on that margin. The low volume client (eg any model railway 'manufacturer'), when looking for a discount on a production run of say 2,000 units, will likely be told to 'get lost' or be given a nominal discount for their continued custom. Without a high volume discount, the cost of models will therefore rise in line with Chinese production costs, which are largely governed by rising labour costs, which have been increasing by double digit percentage increases in recent years. That is what we have tended to see in the pricing of model railway items over the last decade. However, the high volume client such as Apple, who may be placing an order for 750,000 units or more, will be able to extract a higher discount from the production facilities and if they are able to increase their production runs from say 750,000 to 1,000,000 units, then they may also be able to negotiate a larger discount. Any increase in the discount that they are able to negotiate through increased production volumes will tend to negate an increase in labour and materials cost and therefore there will be less price inflation for a product where batch sizes are increasing. The opposite has been happening in the model railway world where increased choice has led to falling batch volumes, thereby eroding the power of model railway 'manufacturers' to negotiate volume discounts. In the context of quality control, virtually all model railway items are 'mass produced', which is simply a term for not being 'hand made'. That it the models are being produced in batches and a sample of these are 'checked' and if these are considered okay, then the whole batch is considered to be 'okay'. Remember also that those who are doing the 'checking' are probably not interested in the model that they are checking (ie it's a toy train that represents a foreign locomotive that they have never seen in reality), so they are looking at it with a less critical eye than some of the end purchasers in the UK who are going to moan about the shade of paint being 'wrong' or not wrapping round the body like the prototype. They have images of what they are supposed to be producing - do they think it looks like the images that they have been given? Yes - then it's time to ship them to the UK.

That depends on your definition of 'mass produced'. Model railway items are 'mass produced' in the context that they are not bespoke custom products where every item is a hand finished work of art. Each production run will be several hundred or even several thousand items for which only a small proportion will be checked for quality control purposes. However, they are not mass produced to the same extent as say an i-phone, for which there will be hundreds of thousands of each model produced and sold worldwide. Therefore model railways don't benefit from the same economies of scale as some other goods and a model railway manufacturer is unlikely to be able to exercise the same pricing pressure for what in global terms are relatively small production runs.

Your link takes me to a completed survey. Try http://oakhamwarp.dinksurveys.com/Transport-Survey for anyone who wants to start at the beginning. Extension of the existing system may be a great idea, but since I don't live in the area and know nothing about local transport options, there's not a lot of point in me completing the survey. I would only buy one of the Parry People Movers for a freelance type micro layout, being shorter than the average DMU.

The explanation would seem to be that you need better laid track and not to buy something based on a picture of a box. :-) Why does your question not bear any resemblance to the title of the thread and why have you posted in the Model Shop Guide rather that in the Hornby section, which would surely have been more appropriate. Do you have an explanation? If you're not happy with your purchase then you either have to return it for a refund, sell it on or weather it to suit your taste. Is the colour really that bad if you weather it to the sort of in traffic look that many steam locomotives carried in BR days?

I think you're thinking of the IZA Cargowaggon. This thread is about the IPA car carriers, which I don't think is a Kernow product but one that I understand Revolution will be delivering themselves. I'd also be interested in timescales, so I know when to commit to this project.