Phil Copleston

Quick appeal - does anyone have a cash box that can be used on the day ?

 

Two are required.

 

Thanks

Me! I have two lockable metal cash boxes. Though I shall need one for the Bring & Buy stall.

Also received are new and simplifed motor mounts for coreless motors (7mm, 8mm and 10mm diameter). You simply glue the motor onto the mount. You can cut the mounting pins off if you want to just glue the mount to your frame spacers. Height adjustments if needed made by inserting plastikard (or similar) shims under the base.

 How useful! Is there a possibility for a mount for 6mm diameter motors too?

Well a real red letter day today. I finally got round to fitting some couplings to my eight coach Manchester Diner rake which I started several years ago. The main reason for this sudden fit of sensible use of personel modelling time was, having proved that the 7F s could haul the longest unaided freight up the bank, I wanted to carry out similar trials for passenger stock.

The usual load for the Diner (Pines from 1927) was six coaches, regularly strengthened to eight or more in the summer. I opted for an eight coach rake as I wasn't confident my 4-4-0s could manage six brass clerestory up the bank so went for eight which would require double heading. I had used plastic for the interiors to keep the weight down and used the beautifully free running Association bogies but, nevertheless, it remains a pretty heavy train.

I needn't have worried, my Raithby based 4F took all eight comfortably (4Fs were allowed eight unaided) and, much to my surprise and delight so did my S&D large 4-4-0 no 70.

This massive leap forward may well encourage me to get the coaches finished and paint the growing queue of finished locos. That said, what's really enthusing me now is cracking on with bridge no 1, the viaduct over the Lower Bristol Road which will allow me to lay the final couple of feet into Bath Junction and then it's a straight run into Queensquare.

The snap below shows SDJR no70 coasting downhill toward Midford having just emerged from Combe Down tunnel. With a load of eight coaches it should, by rights, be piloted. Perhaps there was a shortage of locos at Bath and the train was banked as far as the northern portal!

Wonderful news, Jerry - the day of "The Great Leap Forward" hath cometh at last! I can't wait for your first running session (all round). 

Oh, but I shouldn't worry about the lack of pilot: the loco is clearly a runaway without crew... And it looks like the heat and fury of Coombe Down Tunnel has stripped off the paint too... 

Good progress, my man. Now you deserve a glass of your favourite amber liquid! 

Looking good Phil. I'd add good quality materials to your list - the difference that the use of decent birch plywood makes to baseboard construction is huge in my experience. I'd never go back to using the awful stuff sold by some of the big DIY sheds now. By the time you add the plywood side profiles I think it'll be a very strong and stable set of boards.

 

Btw, any chance you could create a separate thread for your layout? I find that long-running topics often get lost on the general workbench threads and are difficult to find later.

 

Andy

Hi Andy,

Thanks. Yes, a good idea to create a separate thread (or blog) about my layout, if you think people will be interested. I had sort of wondered whether that might be a better place for it. I shall look into it and post a link on here. Good call!

You are quite right about only utilising good quality materials - more expensive, but well worth it. My ply is top-quality Russian birch ply obtained from Timber Cut, Marsh Barton Industrial Estate, Exeter https://www.roachcarpenters.co.uk/timber-cut  The ply is so smooth and creamy it cuts like cheese (no ragging), which is a pleasure to work with. Timber Cut will accurately slice up the 8' x 4' ply sheets into three managable bits (for a reasonable sum) so I can get them into the back of my car. Very handy.

All gluing is done using industrial strength 'Titebond Original Wood Glue' (much stronger than Resin W) available from Axminster Tools, Axminster, Devon http://www.axminster.co.uk/titebond  A few panel pins are added to hold the trackbed down while the glue sets, but nothing more.

These are the same suppliers my baseboard mentor and good friend Maurice Hopper uses. So highly recommended. 

Well observed about the side profiles. Indeed, by the time I've added the inner and outer scenic profiles to the three boards they will be even stronger and stable. So I am having no worries there.

Is there a reason why the surface appears to be unsupported between the cross members? Unless you are building a roller-coaster? I wouldn't like to trust that ply to stay level without some vertical supports along its length.

I think that OrangeCat is correct - in my view, getting the horizontal alignment (the level) is trickier than coping with the directional alignment, which is easy to check visually. I run a carefully planed spline beam unde the centreline of the track before fixing the track bed, then plane the track bed and fix the rails directly to this. More layers just gives more opportunity for errors to creep in. I then finish everything off with a gentle pass with a nine-inch file or a carborundum stone. This gets rid of the switch-back over baseboard joints.

Hope that this helps.

Thank you both for your concern and advice. Much appreciated.

I spent quite a lot of time considering how these support structures will function, including seeking advice from those with considerable experience with plywood baseboard construction. No doubts were expressed that this might not work.

The horizontal spans of 6mm ply between the uprights are 27cm (10½") on the inner curve, with 34cm (13¼") on the outer face. The upper surface is dead level, well on a designed continuous 1:127 gradient anyway. However, should it prove neccessary I can always add a spline beam later, as John suggests. We shall see. But at the moment all seems well.

Don't forget, this is not a passive deck of ply between uprights as on a normal baseboard. But instead is a stressed integral structural member of the 'semi-monocoque' design. Each monocoque compartment is a very ridgid 'box-like' structure, similar to Telford's once famous 'Britannia Bridge' over the Menai. I shall keep an eye on it anyway.

So, as long as I don't deliberately set it on fire (like the bridge), I shall be alright! 

Looks very nice Phil. You could have a bit of underground railway in there!

Thanks. Ahhh, but there is a reason for that extra depth. More will be revealed later... 

Looks good. How were all of those fancy shapes cut out? Was it all manually done or was there some automated assistance? DIY or outsourced?

 

Regards, Andy

Hi Andy,

No, all made by me. The shapes were cut out using a pillar drill (for the corners), a band saw, a hand-held jig saw and by hand using a fret saw. Then the edges cleaned up using glass paper. The rest is all about careful marking out, accurate working, and attention to finish. Having access to a decent wood workshop and tools helps too.

The resulting 'semi-monocoque' baseboards are immensely strong, ridgid and light. For this form of circular layout they are ideal. The only tricky thing was setting up the 120 degree joints to be spot on otherwise the whole thing won't work.

But I made sure I carefully marked it all out on a full sized cartidge paper masterplan using my own made 60cm diameter protractor and then carefully measuring the resultant chords. From the masterplan were derived the tracing paper cutting templates which I then used to prick through the shapes onto sheets of ply, then I drew it all back in again. Long-winded, but pretty straightforward really. 

The paper masterplan was then used to draw out the complete track plan (there are three through stations based on actual prototypes) and associated scenic features (bridges, etc.). From this was derived the cork cutting templates, which is where I am at now.

Here are a couple of extra close-ups of one of the 'semi-monocoque' baseboards:

I know there can be issues with glueing the cork down - I was planning to use evostick impact adhesive.

Hi Douglas (and Jerry),

I wouldn't use evostick. I stick down the cork with good quality wood (white) glue. After initial gluing, the boards are inverted onto a nice flat workbench surface and plenty of weight applied. Works a treat, resulting in a lovely flat surface. I like to work with a cork trackbed because, a) I believe it has some useful sound deadening qualities, b) I like the natural texture to work onto, and c) I like the smell! 

As for wiring and cutting slots etc., as this layout will be DCC operated with mechanically controlled turnouts, apart from vertical dropper wires from the track to the bus wires underneath there will be hardly any wiring required. Keep it simple, I say!

Thank you all for your kind and encouraging comments.

More anon...

Hello all,

Following on from my post #1434 (25th October 2016) about the three baseplates for my new 2mm finescale standard gauge circular layout, after a long gap here is a construction update from the workbench:

6mm ply risers push-fitted into slots in one of the three 9mm ply curved baseplates, but not yet glued in place.  

The risers now glued in and the lower cross-strengtheners attached and clamped. I'm not sure these latter are really needed but they may help make the baseplates and the riser joints more rigid. Two more baseplates awaiting risers can be seen stacked in the background.

More clamping to hold the outer end-plates in place (now double thickness) as the wood glue sets. More fretted-out risers lie on the bench ready for the next baseplate.

The top 6mm ply decks (where the scenery will be!) now attached to two of the boards and stacked together. As the daylight fades, this was the end of another day's hard baseboard building! Three photos taken on Sunday, 5th March.

These last two photos show the complete circular layout of all three baseboards temporarily clamped together to see how it looks. The inner, lower, fiddleyard strips are also now in place. Photos taken last Saturday, 11th March.

The three board joints are set exactly 120 degrees apart, and have an overall diameter of 1,676mm (5' 6"). There is a constant falling (or rising) gradient throughout the scenic section (to and from the two inner fiddleyards) of 1:127. Track viewing level will eventually be at chest height, 1,372mm (54"). These boards are to my own design of 'semi-monocoque' construction.

Almost complete with just the cross-over "flyover" to install (will eventually be hidden), the river bridges drop-sections (and a couple of other side bits) to cut out, and the inner and outer 4mm ply scenic side-profiles to attach. Nearly there. Thereafter, I have the three ply leg units and curved ply separation beams to fabricate, plus a couple of transport carry boxes to take the boards, legs and (eventually) the parasol-like suspended catenary lighting spider.

So, now that the "principal baseboard building" (to paraphrase a term from the film industry) is complete, let cork laying, track building and actual model-making commence. Hurrah! 

As I said in my earlier post, further updates will follow as construction proceeds...

Have just added demonstrations by Phil Parker & John Farmer to the list of exhibitors.

Will this be with pickets, banners and placards? I'm sure they will be working themselves up into a frenzy. Should be most entertaining! 

Once we get rid of these fake posts! :-)

 

Jim

Mark doesn't do "fake posts"... But he does do alternative humour! 

In my humble opinion, Trevor Nunn's 'East Lynn & Nunstanton' layout is truly one of the best model-railways (in any scale) ever built. Period. Not just that it is entirely scratchbuilt by one man, nor that is works beautifully and prototypically, but also that it is great fun to operate. This is a good old fashioned model railway!

For me, it also illustrates the point that backscenes are not de rigueur, nor is a proscenium arch presentation. It looks and works absolutely fine as it is. It also depicts a long portion of railway with three distinct scenes (quayside scene, East Lynn station and Nunstanton station) and a minimum of hidden fiddleyard trackage (three short traintables). All too often in this country we see layouts limited to depicting an individual station rather than sweeping portions of a railway (as our North American cousins do). The fact that the locations of 'East Lynn & Nunstanton' are entirely fictitious is quite incidental!

It may no longer be on the exhibition circuit, but if you are a member of the S Scale MRS the opportunity occasionally arises to play with 'East Lynn & Nunstanton' at Trevor's home-meetings now and again. Thank you Trevor for all the years of enjoyable watching and operating your train set!      

But it's less than 1mm in 4mm scale. Is it really worth bothering myself over it?

Of course it is! The whole character can be changed. It's about relative proportion, not absolute dimensions. Look at the Bachmann 'Rat' - the front-end look (and thus the roof curve) is quite spoiled by getting the cab width wrong in relation to the main carbody. 

Don't forget the full set of Working Tools, to keep things square, level and upright. The Volume of the Sacred Law (aka The 2mm Handbook) also needs to open at an appropriate place...

 

Edward S

Eddie,

The what? The 2mm Handbook has not been around for seemingly decades now. And newer Association members will not be aware of its contents. Fortunately, I have copies of both the blue and green covered versions. For sure, still an interesting read, but more of an historical snapshot of 2mm modelling in the 1970s and '80s. 

In practice, I find that for a lot of the techniques and guidance required for 2mm finescale modelling (or any finescale modelling for that matter, including S scale), the Scalefour Society's publications and data sheets are far more relevant and practical - and better produced. Good ideas and inspiration travels across the scales!  

In the background John, Phil and Maurice can be seen behind the layout - John's obviously had too much cake and is struggling to stop himself sinking below the backscene!

And as John crouched down, impishly peeping from behind the backscene, there were cries from us of "Kilroy!" (An American popular culture expression during World War II, typically seen in graffiti.) 

Looks to have been a splendid day, something I regret not being able to attend myself.

 

We're there any memorable annicdotes from the ex drivers and staff you could share?

Hi Spams,

We had so many conversations with locals and heard lots of anecdotes from ex-drivers and staff last Saturday - which was exactly what we were hoping for. But it was Jerry and John who mainly talked with the former railwaymen - so I will leave that to Jerry to recount. But I do recall that at one point we had four or five ex-railway staff posed in front of the layout for a group portrait. Hopefully, Jerry can post that photo for you on this thread.

As you can imagine, one of the great rewards of displaying a prototype-based layout in its locale is the positive feedback and pleasure it gives to so many. Not just a nostalgia trip, but the good memories it invokes in local folks. This is particularly true of ex-railwaymen. I remember helping Keith Gowen with his 3mm 'Helston' layout at the Cambourne show a few years ago and the positive feedback we had from local people was tremendous. http://www.uckfieldmrc.co.uk/exhib03/helston.html

It works several ways: we bring pleasure to local people; they give us an opportunity to explain about the prototype and 2mm modelling; and local people bring us their anecdotes and new information. Last Saturday, for instance, several folks very kindly donated to John their treasured snaps taken when the line was still open. Not great photos, but it makes for good interactions and everyone was happy! The organisers also gave John some prints of the rare archive photos that were on display.

The other thing was, most people hadn't realised that nearly everything they saw on John's 'Wadebridge' layout is scratchbuilt (or "handmade", as I explained to them) - from the track, locos and rolling stock, to the scenery, structures and buildings. They were quite amazed! This is not just a collection of commercial train set items arranged to look a bit like the real Wadebridge, but the product of years of focused research and dedicated scratchbuilding, and the application of real model-making skills. Such "expertise" is not something you hear extolled much these days or see a lot of or appreciated in the wider world of 'instant gratification' anymore. I like to think this type of explanation of our hobby helps spread a positive impression of railway modelling and of modellers.  

So it's a win-win when exhibiting locally!

MMRG pre-loved and shelf-queen sale 

 

Kim's Kitchen

Heyyyy, I'm attending just on the prospects of these two alone - a second-hand bargain AND a cake? What's not to like!!! 

Oh, and there's some spiffing train sets too. Excellent.    

Can I ask what's happening on 17th June?

Rab,

Not quite sure what Maurice was refering to. But the Warminster Show is on 17th June 2017 - "An Exhibition of Fine Scale Modelling" organised by Mr Queensquare himself (Jerry Clifford) of this parish, and not to be missed! Includes 2mm finescale and S scale modelling, amongst other delights. Jerry tells me I must abandon 2mm for the day and get on with an S scale demo at his "do". Seems I must obay!

More details here: http://www.ukmodelshops.co.uk/events/14095-MendipModelRailwayGroupExhibition

Glad everyone had a good day at Wadebridge.

 

David

Photos of the event to follow... 

Ooo, I would love to come, but afraid I'm otherwise engaged.

Hope it goes well,

Dave.

Oh what a pity, Dave. But be sure to come and see us next time. You will be very welcome. 

It's rather rare that my bursts of 2mm modelling last long enough for whatever new kit I've ordered to arrive. Usually, it will have to wait for the next time I feel like working in 2mm. However, at the moment things are going quite well and I've been virtually 2mm only since Christmas. This has given Royal Mail and USPS time to work together and bring me new sheets of nickel silver. This arrived yesterday and I started today. About 45 minutes invested so far. Can you tell what it is?

Nicely done so far. Is it an LSWR M7 0-4-4T, perchance? ...Is there a prize? 

If there were a show called Desert Island Kits it would be my luxury item (solar powered of course) :-)

I love the suggestion - Desert Island Kits!

We should start a separate thread to discuss our eight favourite must-take-with-us kits. With choice of an additional modelling book and a 'luxury' tool (a basic equiped workbench is already provided) to take with us. Could be most entertaining! 

Would absolutely love to see Wadebridge layout at Wadebridge station running 21C107 Wadebridge. Jerry mentioned it last weekend it last weekend at Stevenage show. Once in a lifetime event but well over 500 mile return trip. Sorely tempted...

That's it in a nutshell - 'Wadebridge' at Wadebridge running 21C107 'Wadebridge'! 

Seen at the recent Uckfield show - Spamcan No.21C107 'Wadebridge' (now with nameplates) departs Wadebridge station on John Greenwood's stunning 2mm finescale 'Wadebridge' layout. [Photo: Adrian Colenutt]

What a unique opportunity! Come and see this very model scene in the original Wadebridge station building - The Betjeman Centre, Wadebridge, Cornwall - this coming Saturday, 21st January - full details in post #203.

I obviously had a camera but film and processing were expensive so I took very few photos over the day - including none at Bodmin North (cor, I feel very brave saying that in view of who is watching this thread)

Don't worry, I won't tell him (yeah right, honest!). John's not on RMweb (or any Web).

Here's a 'heads-up' for a rather unique 2mm finescale 'fix' next Saturday 21st January 2017:

For one day only - John Greenwood's superb 2mm finescale layout 'Wadebridge' will be appearing at The John Betjeman Centre (the original Wadebridge station building), Southern Way, Wadebridge, Cornwall, PL27 7BX. http://www.wadebridge-concern-for-the-aged.co.uk

Not a model railway exhibition, but part of The John Betjeman Centre's event, "Remembering 50 years since the Last Passenger Train from Wadebridge Station" - the last regular passenger train left on 28th January 1967. The Bodmin & Wenford Railway will also be presenting a display, so other railway interest will be there too.

Open 10am - 3pm. Admission will be FREE!

So if you're in the area next Saturday (or travelling from afar) - please call in and see us (John, Jerry and me) and make yourselves known. You will be very welcome!

West Country class No.21C107 (later 34007) 'Wadebridge' at Wadebridge (minus nameplates) on the Down Atlantic Coast Express (ACE). This one-day event will be held in the real station buildings, as seen here on John's 2mm rendition of this station and famous train! 

And for the Wadebridge station gricers... 

This is Wadebridge station looking east from the footbridge on Molesworth Street, September 1968 (Douglas Nicholls, Cornwall Railway Society)

[Edit. to correct No.34007 'Wadebridge' to 21C107, as per David Long's post #215. Oops!]