latestarter

Thanks for the advice @Nearholmer and @RobinofLoxley the more I look at it, the more I'm sure it's the Hornby track rubber, which is softer than I expected - not unlike a large pencil eraser.

I need to get it off somehow without roughing up the track too much and then find a way to keep the track clean. I saw something called 'Inox' on YouTube, an Australian liquid/spray product that gets good reviews for cleaning and maintaining track, but as always, I can't get it in Ireland.

@Nearholmer You would be horrified at the amount of sawdust I threw up this week, around the layout. It will be in my latest 'Branchline' Video on YouTube after 12 noon Saturday (4th December).

Thanks @Nearholmer . I've been using a Hornby track rubber on the top of the rails. It's light grey and now has black residue a bit like pencil lead on it.

The room has a dormer window and it's only for the layout. So it's been getting very cold in there and then I've turned the heating on when when I've used the layout for an hour or two each day.

Thanks  Robin. No, I didn't have the power switched on. There's been a lot of dust, including saw dust, in the room over the last few days. I wonder if something has been attracted to the metal. I found something on another forum about electrostatic charges from metal wheels, but it's a bit beyond me.

I finished the bus wiring on my layout yesterday. It's a combination of 8 pairs of Peco Track Joiner Droppers and 3 pairs of soldered wires, all connecting to a 'horsehoe' shaped bus wire, with a Chinese version of Scotchlok connectors. The bus wire is 16 AWG and I'm using the standard Hornby transformer (1amp) through the Select controller. 

I was painting the rails today with rust-coloured acrylic paint, and after cleaning the tops of the rails with a track rubber, and running a couple of locos, I noticed patches of a matt grey coating appearing in some areas of the layout, on the top rails. It's appearing in places where I did and didn't paint, and it's not all over the track. But, the loco's stop on it (sometimes) and I'm fairly (but not absolutely) sure it's coming back after I clean it off. You can see an example of it in the photo, on the nearest rail, between the 2 recessed sleepers. In some places it's lighter and more patchy.

I wondered if it might be something to do with the wiring - sort of like grey emulsion paint. if anyone has any thoughts, I'd be very grateful.
 

Part 6 of BRANCHLINE: A Model Railway Journey is now on YouTube. I tackle my biggest fear - wiring - using Peco rail feed joiners, with some thoughts on how to manage being out of your comfort zone. I hope you like it!

So, with encouragement from you guys, including @RobinofLoxley and @ITG and others, I have installed my first (8) dropper wires. I used the Peco Power feed joiners (wires pre-soldered to fishplates). I know that these are frowned on in some quarters, but considering I almost didn't do anything about droppers at all, it feels like progress. 

I used 2 packets (8 pairs) and they are installed at the locations shown by the wagons and the locos in the photo. This may be an issue, as they are (mostly) all at the front end of the baseboard, nearest to where I will be controlling the layout.

The main reason for this is that those areas are sidings, and I had already pinned down the track (as I had envisioned the wires being soldered - which is unlikely to happen for a while. But I can add more at the back, if needed.   

My intention is to have the droppers there in preparation for the bus wiring, which may be a bit further down the line. I know this will raise some eyebrows, but consider me as a Luddite using my first 'Spinning Jenny' and thinking it may not be such a bad thing after all.

 

BRANCHLINE: Part 5 - Shunting Area and Uncoupling Ramp Problems on the new layout is now on YouTube. Please feel free to comment, like and subscribe.

2 hours ago, kevinlms said:

Fact is, wiring needs to be done BEFORE you ballast, doing it afterwards is 10 times harder. I did suggest a possible idea earlier, solder drop wires and poke them through holes drilled in the baseboard and then they can be connected later - indeed perhaps never.At least you could get on with the ballasting, if that's what you want to do. But PLEASE don't be tempted to ballast before you solder wires, it's much harder - believe me!

Thanks for the helpful response. I'm going to try the Peco pre-soldered wire/fishplates, as suggested elsewhere in this thread, for now. It will mean I can avoid soldering at least in the short term, and I'll have the wires in place for such time as I'm ready to install a bus wire. I've heard that there might be issues with these, but for me soldering is a bigger issue.

I'm just back from the doctor and pharmacy, even lighter in the wallet, but slightly more hopeful of some periods where I can model without interference from my ears!

@Pete the Elaner Try reading my most recent post. I can't even stand up half the time, never mind flip a ton weight baseboard over, or get under it for hours on end to do wiring. It's not about it being boring. It's about me being ill. Please if you can't read posts properly, I would kindly ask that you stop replying to them, to avoid becoming deeply offensive.

16 minutes ago, Pete the Elaner said:

I understand your frustrations. But on the other hand, getting there too quickly involves taking what I would consider to be shortcuts (minimum feeds, large sections, relying on point blades for electrical contact & probably a few other things which I now do from experience without even questioning why).

I''m not sure sure that you do understand my frustrations. This is not (just) about wiring and soldering, and it's certainly not about taking shortcuts. It's about being ill - and wanting to get on with the good bits of railway modelling. Not least because I've spent a fortune on it, so far, but also because I may not want to be bothered (because I'm so ill) next year.

4 minutes ago, Pete the Elaner said:

Can you flip the boards onto their side or even upside down to work on them? Working underneath is a real back breaker even for someone quite fit.

Have a look here from 7 minutes 30 secs

Thanks for all the help with this, everyone. A bit more clarification (hope it's not too boring) is below...

When I made the OP, I was feeling that the situation is quite complex, both from a personal perspective and from that of actually getting the layout finished.

The medical issue I have is complex, likely to recur at varying levels  of debilitation and expensive (Ireland, where I live has no 'NHS' to speak of). As an example, right now, as I type this, I've got the timpani section of the LSO playing in my left ear. Last week, I was so physically sick and dizzy that I couldn't walk from one side of the room to the other for 2 days. I've had to cancel the guy who was doing the layout wiring for me, as all my money is going on medical appointments and medication.

So, what I need (if it exists) is the easiest, simplest and cheapest way for me to get to the point where I can start to do the things I might enjoy on the layout. Including ballasting and general modelling. Stuff that I would be more capable of than wiring. The track is pinned down - and this was on the advice of the wiring guy - who is an experienced baseboard builder and layout modeller. 

I like @ITG's suggestion with the block terminals, as it seems like something I could probably do - and would not involve time learning soldering (although I bought the iron) and being under the baseboard.

I'm tempted to just get on and start ballasting, but at the same time, I don't want it all to stop working a few weeks later.

39 minutes ago, ITG said:

Yes, if you wish to avoid soldering and for simplicity sake, you can use the Hornby power clips....

 

Once again, great help, thank you. Unfortunately, the only Hornby power clips (top photo) I can find are the ones that are meant for connecting DC track. They have wires with bullet connectors on them - so I'm not sure how that will work but I've got some of these that came with Hornby extension packs.

I'm looking at Peco connectors, but I think the best thing might be for me to replace some R600's with Power Track? I could probably locate them at about 4 places around the layout on different lines, including sidings.

 

@ITG You know, that even makes sense to me - someone who used to have trouble wiring a plug!

A couple more things... can I use the Hornby Power Clips (as below) and how many would you say are needed - or any there any 'strategic' places (points - in both senses of the word) to place them. 2) The blocks you linked to have different Amps, is there a recommended amp, and a gauge for the wire? Thanks again!
 

8 minutes ago, smokebox said:

You're confusing power clips and point clips.  Point clips are the little wire staple like things that go on points and power clips are what connects the power to the track

Thanks, that clears it up. So, adding some more of those is the suggestion, I gather? But how are they connected to the controller? My original question was...do I add extra controllers to power connectors on the track, so maybe I'm halfway there. Is it possible to add more power track(s) or clips to one single controller?

5 minutes ago, ITG said:

I think what’s being said is leading to confusion, by different interpretations of the words ‘power clips’. R8232 are small sprung clips used to improve the connectivity of points, whereas ‘power clips’ in another sense means that connection of power feed to the track.

 

By having a bus wire below the board, with multiple feeds to the tracks in numerous different places, you are insuring against future potential failure.

Thanks @ITG. Yes the cross-terminology is a bit confusing for a beginner. Your answer seems to be 'you must bus wire it to avoid future failure' (which is unambiguous). However, although @AndrewC was probably not referring to the Hornby power clips, I get the feeling he's referring to something other than 'bus wiring with dropper feeders'...I just don't know what it is.

9 minutes ago, AndrewC said:

I mean add more power clips connected to the existing power pack. The more the merrier as they say. This will increase the reliability without having to add soldered droppers to each section of track. It isn't the absolute best practice, but for a small layout with minimal track it should be sufficient. 

I've got the Hornby R8232 power clips on every set of points. Would you put them on straights and curves too? Incidentally, I bought 2 packs a while ago, but Amazon sent me 12, and said I could keep the extras. So, I've got more than enough to do it. Or am I confusing what you mean by 'power clip'. Easy mistake for me..my surname is 'Power'.

3 minutes ago, RFS said:

I would recommend doing the "coin test". This just means removing all you locos from the track, and then going round with a coin or piece of wire, and deliberately causing a short. Make sure the command station cuts out immediately when you do this. If it doesn't, then at that point you should add some extra track feeds.  You may find that 2 or 3 additional feeds are needed rather than a complete bus. 

I've already managed to do several unintentional 'coin tests', when I've put screw drivers and other metal objects on the track. You'll see the two 'drums' on the back of the little Hornsby shunter at the bottom left of the photo. I put large metal 'washers' in them for added weight. One of those fell on the track and caused a short. The 'Select' Controller cuts out immediately, something which I've been aware of more than once.

4 minutes ago, AndrueC said:

How is each section of track getting power? If most are getting it through fishplates then that's not a good idea.

Thanks for the reply @AndrueC. It's all Hornby set track, connected to each other with fishplates.

2 minutes ago, AndrewC said:

...but if you can perhaps add one or 2 more power connectors as insurance. 

Thanks for that @AndrewC, just to clarify (as I'm very new to layout building), do you mean add a new transformer and controller at another section of the track, with a power track or similar connector?

7 minutes ago, Nigelcliffe said:

If its working, its working.   No amount of theory can change that.  

 

For a layout of the size shown, I see no purpose in changing the wiring.

Thanks @Nigelcliffe obviously that's the sort of reply I was hoping for. However, for 'balance', I rang the guy who built the baseboard, just now, and he said...'No, it won't work in the longer term. Once you start adding ballast and glue etc, it will interfere with the electrics.' I have a feeling the debate here will go along these two main lines (another intended pun).

On 13/11/2021 at 15:07, stucashmore said:

Thanks Iain! Greatly appreciate your help. I'm off to try it now.

And...?

I'm close to finishing laying down the track for my first layout (it is DCC). It's on an 8 x 4 baseboard with legs, and it's design has been discussed at length in another thread. The photos show it almost completed (perhaps 2 more R600's needed on the top row of 3 sidings).

The power, currently (pun intended), comes from a 4 amp transformer through the Hornby Select controller. There is power to all areas of the track, with no dropouts and all 4 locos run at their correct speeds - including stupidly fast ('Aberdonian' Tornado). The points will be manual (Caboose Industries 'ground throw turnouts'.

Since starting it, I've been diagnosed with a problem with my inner ears (Meniere's syndrome) which is taking a bit of a toll on me, and means I probably won't be able to work on the basics - such bus wiring and soldering droppers etc - as much as I had planned. I'd rather get to the point of ballasting and then building the layout sooner, if that's feasible.

So my contentious question is this... given that I only want to power the track, and it's working now, do I need to install bus wiring at all? 

I have the feeling that this is one of those...ask 10 people and you'll get 10 different answers...sort of questions, but I thought I'd throw it out there anyway.



 

Part 4 of BRANCHLINE: Planning & Laying the Track is now on YouTube I hope you enjoy it.

Part 3 of BRANCHLINE: Choosing a Layout Is Now on YouTube