Danfilm007

You can always do an "over the top" style station like Nottingham in this situation to minimise the buildings on the platforms? Anyway, today's "brainwave" is followed by seeing Hornby Magazine's Grand Central layout. As prev suggested, I could use scenic up the fiddle yard area, to do something similar like the bottom of their layout for the sidings? https://www.keymodelworld.com/article/building-great-central-railway

I certainly appreciate it (and am enjoying the debates going on too!) and I like the ideas - all are welcome!

Food for thought! It does flow quite nicely. I must admit I'm a bit of a sucker for the way Oxford Road flows with its point works and tightness but it does obviously work better your way

Interesting idea! Certainly is an interesting concept. Part of my reason for an Oxford Road style station was the variety of running but this station is more flexible in terms of reversal bays etc!

Mostly DMUs/EMUs and a couple of Loco hauled passenger stock

You are right, I think I'll abandon the idea od the sidings as it seems a bit much. I think I'll steal the changing heights aspect though!

Me again! I had some thoughts the other day. There is a layout on here that I can't recall the name of but it's a Northern modern image layout with some carriage sidings outside the station, plus layouts like Bradfield Gloucester Square where there is a mix of both station and sidings. I've taken some inspiration from Stockport station, so I have added in both another through platform at the top (which I may "dead end" or put a point on the lift-out section for it) and some basic sidings and a headshunt. The station at Stockport is also a bit easier - it starts in a bit of a cutting and ends on a viaduct so it could be a slightly more practical thing to model. Finally, it gives some more storage in the scenic area. Do you think I am slightly mad to incorporate it?

I'll give it a go! Really, the fiddle yard entrance is just too tight to fit any more points or changes in - this layout gives me a few extra loops and growth opportunities on those ends!

Very interesting topic (thanks to Accurascale guys and gals, you have some wonderful models!). As a modern-image ish (2000s onwards) modeller, Electrostars are a key part of the modern railway and have always seemed a huge gap given the variety of models, locations etc. Even for North West modellers, a substantial number of them have been tested and run up here. I would love more Voyagers and Turbostars. In fact, one of my first models I was given was a 3 car Voyager! Ultimately, for me the biggest gaps are 185 and 360s (although why Bachmann haven't done them yet surprises me), plus the new CAF units seem to be quite a gap too which could be filled fairly well... Growing up on the East Coast I have a soft spot for the 365s too, maybe worth doing?

Thank you! I can fit a 15ft building in the space (this is all long-term!!) so even accounting for insulation and smaller interiors 14ft inside should touchwood be fine. Obviously we can take length out if needs be! I'm readjusted the top-left curves slightly so they are looser but even on the right hand side it is relatively tight (20"). It is all a compromise in one way or another - this version has fewer sidings but is 100% accessible from all sides, whereas the other one had more but not all were. I won't be running trains at super high speed either so I don't think it is "as much" a problem? I'll probably add one or two in - it's why I quite liked the more unconventional format as it meant there was a lot more space in each of the sidings but this is much less complex and I feel happier with it, length aside!

It is simpler! The curvature on the ends means that you can't really fit many more points in, but I have lengthened them quite a bit so you can store multiple units in the main loops and a longer train or two too. Means it is all accessible from all routes too, and it could be managed on one board controller with a Megapoints 12 point controller for example!..

I would think so! It seems to fit the available space quite well. My only challenge is trying to get the right hand side accessible from all directions (so far, you can go west to east, but can't reach the longest two sidings from the east to west direction, which is hurting my head to rectify!)

Does this look better in your eyes, then? Now you can access all of the fiddle yard sidings from the facing direction, plus a special bi-directional siding for freight stock. Min of R19 curves (but 20, 21 mostly!) for a bit looser and smoother travelling

That's a fair point, and something easily fixed by putting an avoiding line underneath the points!

Thanks Nick! I appreciate everyone's feedback and it is an interesting debate on the fiddle yard. I have inverted it, so trains can more easily go into and out of the sections in the fiddle yard. I have added one dead-end siding that more easily allows for Bay platform shuttling, plus an elongated headshunt and crossover. To me it flows better, allows simpler use for in and out units, plus a proper way of reversing trains without being too silly. Simpler? Also means most are 5ft long - easily long enough for 2x 2 car DMUs, 1x 3 and 1x2, plus freight, a 67+Mk4 set etc. Freight - not massively long (as you can tell, space is at a bit of premium!), a smaller container train and maybe some PW too, my main interest is passenger services but a lot of interesting trains in my part of the world! Most items would reverse in the fiddle yard. As a lot of trains in the real operations go towards Piccadilly and Manchester Airport and reverse, so you get a reasonable level of churn both east and west. The other benefit to this this way means if I just want to chill out with some trains trundling round, I can just do that. We all like to play trains now and then!..

Using your efforts, I've come up with the attached! What points did you use? I wasn't able to accurately capture it but I think it wasn't a half-bad job for a first go. It allows any train to run through, or reverse back from any direction (apart from the last two loops, but you can always run those through the other direction!..

Thank you as always to everyone for their views! Today's idea for the fiddle yard is to add some reversing points on the lowest and top points - i.e you COULD get into the fiddle yard from the running lines but maybe is making it more complex? Harlequin, I'm modelling your fiddle yard type now, it looks a great idea too :)

All good thoughts - I liked the idea of Bradfield Gloucester Square where you had the carriage sidings too (I can't remember the name of the Northern modern image layout which had one plus a station too, it is on here, really wonderful layout!) but I think if this was going to be my first "proper" layout in my own space, keep things simple where possible. The slip sounds interesting - you may have noticed but I had one in the scenic section many iterations ago but that is a long time ago now. In a fiddle yard potentially less problematic? I am still conscious that I have 3rd or 4th radius turns which are nice but not super generous and if I ran IEPs or Mk5s then it could cause some issues?

Interesting idea, I imagine it's simpler to run etc! Have thought of them or cassettes on terminus layouts but never a roundy roundy. As Harlequin says it is a big risk. At least this way, there is plenty of storage for units and freight, plus run round options while leaving trains running (although it does mean you could knock items off the bottom running line...)

On the point of fiddle yards, I took some inspiration from an online fiddle yard model, this seems to be a bit more flexible? 6 roads in the middle and two continuous outer loops for running. Seems a bit tight but maybe also quite efficient? All the radius are 20/21" to make it a bit less tight!

I've taken some inspiration from your plans Robin and the advice of others, so please see the new attachment! I haven't updated the fiddle yard yet but I have one or two ideas. And yes, my top crossover is still there!! I think in the examples previously given there was through running from Platform 1 to Piccadilly so wrong line running does happen and at the least there is a way of switching on either end.

Thank you for your advice and plan, it looks great! It is a good idea so I'll have to go away and mock it up in my template. Does feel like I am getting closer to a resolved layout and your advice and others is handy. Fiddle yards etc are easy enough to design, I haven't really iterated on it as I wanted to get the layout to flow nicely. It isn't critical to have the second turnback, as you say, it isn't really used much whereas the ones in Deansgate are used a lot. The island platforms generally can squeeze in a 6 car train - from some testing videos, a 68 and set of Mk5as really dominate the island platform. There is a prototype for everything, even trains the same length of the platform!

I'll give it a go! It then goes back to the previous curving in that area effectively

Thanks, it has given me some more inspiration! I managed to get a lot better flow through the layout by re-reversing the layout (west to Deansgate, east to Piccadilly). The biggest platform should hold a 5 car IEP or a TfW 67 & Mk4s, and the rest should hold 4 car trains comfortably. The big green blob is the central operating space (ignore the bit over the running lines!). Does it feel a bit more natural to you? I expect I could get more curves through the platforms but best to start conservatively again after all my revisions and overthinking.

Thanks! That is really helpful. I was studying onboards of the layout to get it right - the last one I've just posted makes me a bit happier and your guide there helps a lot too, thank you!