dunwurken

Lord Craig says that if you will place one of his posters at Castle Aching he will place one of yours at Craig. Craig Castle Poster by Malcolm MacLeod, on Flickr

Mick T who inhabits NGRM has an up to date list of all writings relating to the C&DR.

John According to the Forsythe book the J72 was introduced in Feb 1959 and the Caley tank in Sept 1961. Due to this covid lockdown I have no access to the club library so am not able to undertake the usual thumb through the ads looking for info. So thanks for the copy of the motor ad. Rodney The main focus of my attention in this thread is the standard gauge kits and it was more as an afterthought that I inserted the photos of Moira and Angus's chassis as I thought they might be of interest to the K's aficionados on this thread. They run remarkably well for a couple of old timers and are a testament to their designer and manufacturer. On checking I am not sure whether the photo used is mine or Rod's! My apologies to Rod if it is his. Malcolm

Moira's motor has been altered by PDH. Motor alterations was something he undertook almost from the days of his first models in the early 1950's. Moira's K's motor sits within a brass envelope. With Angus PD specifically refers to the availability of the new small K's motor and the flywheel in his various scribblings and he says that she has a scale chassis by K's presumably a private commission with Ken Keyser with any motor alterations also by Ken. Malcolm

Michael and John I've had time to take another look at the motor in P D Hancock's Caley tank and find my copy of the Forsythe book. The motor measures in old money 3-13/32nds by 5/8ths x 3/8ths and when I compared that to the MKl and Mkll motors in the Forsythe book it matched neither, too short for a Mkl and too long for a single magnet Mkll. It does however appear to be a later, post 1960, MKll which had a second magnet added. The measurements would appear to back up that theory. The Caley kit apparently did not appear until 1960 so unless there were a lot of older versions of motor to be used up first one would presume the new double magnet Mkll would be used. With regard to the motor in the J72 I am puzzled as to why it had such an old K's motor in it given both the MKl and Mkll motors were in production for a number of years prior to the introduction of the J72 kit. One possibility, that I am certainly not discounting, is that PDH was swapping motors around different locos, something he was known to do over the years, but if that motor is not original to the kit then that could set a few hares running with some of the other locos. Is it possible to give any production dates for the early motor? Attached is a photo of the 'original small K's motors' installed in PD's Douglass Models kit of 009 narrow gauge loco 'Angus' [built circa 1954] and also the 'somewhat battered K's job .... mounted vertically..' in Moira [built circa 1957/8] one of his scratchbuilt 009 locos. Both locos and chassis survive in working order. Angus - chassis by Malcolm MacLeod, on Flickr Moira's original chassis 12 Sept 2016crop by Malcolm MacLeod, on Flickr Malcolm

I would be inclined to agree but one thing puzzles me. The left hand track from Easter Road is nice and shiny which suggests traffic running into Leith Walk goods depot and / or down to Granton however the line at Powderhall is rusty. I lived in McDonald Road 1977/83 and the oil train to Granton was still running and the Leith Walk to Millerhill or Carstairs via Lochend Junction goods was still running but may have finished by 1983. Unless my memory is playing tricks I do not think the rubbish trains from Powderhall had started until after I moved away. I seem to recall there was a period during which there were no trains though Easter Road until the Powderhall traffic started and by then the Easter Road to London Road loop was out of use. I can certainly say the line to Lochend outlived the line to London Road. Sorry I cannot be clearer.

Thank you gentlemen for the information on the motors. PD did have a bash at soldering the chassis together but may have given up, especially if the motor was playing up, and never got round to building a replacement chassis. As far as possible I am attempting to keep things as PD built them but in this case the existing chassis / mechanism may go into 'museum' storage with a new chassis and motor installed. As you say it is well made and painted model and it would be a shame for it to be permanently sidelined. Malcolm

I am in the process of researching the standard gauge locomotives that ran on P D Hancock's Craigshire. As one might expect for a modeller of his era there are some models constructed, wholly or partly, from Keyser parts. Within the Edinburgh & Lothians PDH Collection are two Ks kits one of which is a Caley 0-4-4T No.127 and the other a J72 in NER livery No.2187. I have trawled through this thread and answered a few of my questions but....... Firstly the CR tank: Am I correct in saying the model is fitted with a MkII motor [which runs very nicely] and can anyone give a date for the introduction of the kit? CR 127 by Malcolm MacLeod, on Flickr CR 127 chassis by Malcolm MacLeod, on Flickr CR 127 underside by Malcolm MacLeod, on Flickr Buffers removed whilst rear buffer beam repaired and paintwork touch up. With the exception of a damaged rear buffer beam the NER tank whilst in good external order is not so good on the inside. Firstly as can be seen the front section of the whitemetal part of the chassis has broken at a weak point adjacent to the front axle and the pick ups are scrap. With a bit of care and much cursing the front end damage is repairable and as can be seen PD had a bash at this himself. That said the chassis actually runs OK! I presume the picks were originally to two wheels as per the CR tank despite this being an 0-6-0 but confirmation would be appreciated. Next the motor. I thought this as MkII but now have my doubts. It is longer than the CR tank motor and not like the catalogue sketches of a MKII. Can anyone identify it? It is stamped Ks. It will run in one direction and shorts in the other so a bit of fiddling and cursing required. One thing I have noticed is that a previous PD repair was to replace one of the carbon brushes and its spring [probably still hiding in the carpet of his old house!] but they are both too small. Does anyone know which of the current crop of carbon brushes available from the spares suppliers would be the best fit? Lastly is this an early or late version of the kit? NER 2187 by Malcolm MacLeod, on Flickr Chassis NER 2187 by Malcolm MacLeod, on Flickr Motor NER 2187 by Malcolm MacLeod, on Flickr Malcolm

Mike I do not think you missed too much with the broken links. The unobtainable google picassa photos were all moved onto the Google archive file. When I gat a moment I'll go through the thread and update as required (and 009 and NGRM). Malcolm

If you do find yourself hiding under the bed remember to take a torch with you so you can read Narrow Gauge Adventure when it arrives. Malcolm

Found lurking amongst some motors is another Essar mechanism, no chassis or wheels, with no number but the letters H H E. All the Essar mechanisms in the PDH Collection work! Not bad given their age etc. Malcolm

You're welcome Annie. Look forward to hearing from you as and when. In the meantime or whenever you have your first question pm me and I'll forward my email address. As I think you are aware there have been threads on NGRM relating to the C&MR though much of that concerns the recent history, i.e. post 2011. Malcolm

Annie I did not think my query a few posts back about anyone putting together a virtual Craig would start this. I am the author of that 2015 article in RM and the custodian of the ELMRC PDH Collection. Aside from the physical remains of Dundreich, Craig Castle and many of the Craig buildings I retain some of the original b&w photos and all the colour photos of Craig including a 1955/6 colour photo which recently found its way onto P D Hancock - Craig and Mertonford Railway in the narrow gauge modelling section of RMWeb. I have both editions of the book, all his articles scanned and indexed so I might be able to save you time and trouble. Malcolm PA to Lord Craig (i.e. current dogsbody!)

Annie Just a passing thought, has anyone in your group attempted Craigshire? Malcolm

I have no idea but looking at the mechanisms you can see why that might be the case.

Hi There were in fact three NBR 4-4-0s. There is the 'Scott' class, 'Kettledrummle', as you have already mentioned and two 'Glens', 'Glen Finnan', a conversion from a Tri-ang L1 and 'Glen Roy', a GEM kit. The exact number of standard gauge locos will never be known, all we can do is add up what is mentioned in NGA, the numerous articles and the odd snippet of information. PD bought and sold as the mood took him e.g. 'Glen Roy' and the NBR 'Yorkie' were purchases and there was a 'cull' between the second and third versions of the layout. There are 15 Craigshire locos, mostly the ones seen in the published photographs, whose whereabouts are known and there were 37 locos + 1 DMU that I can account for that either did run on Craigshire or PD threatened to build and run on Craigshire -see p90 NGA. Research is ongoing!!!! Malcolm

5050 - The Irish range was Authenticast. There is also information on some of the GF figures and some of the other worthies who populate Craigshire in the thread P. D. Hancock - Craig and Mertonford Railway in the Narrow Gauge Forum of Rmweb, it all starts part way down page 1 with the post by Albyn on May 14. This thread on plastic figures is a spin-off. Malcolm

He probably just forgot he had one of these extra high trailers.

David Ronald, who wrote that article for NG&IRMR, is of course the same David Ronald who helped build the Craig tram system. Malcolm

There was a series in the Model Railway Enthusiast by Paul Brookes which ran from June 1998 through to March 2000. There is a history of the company and a list, in numerical order, of over 100 items produced by the company each item having a colour photograph and a brief individual description/ history with on/off market dates. I have a scanned copy of the series but, due to the dreaded coronovirus no access currently to the original magazines. Malcolm

Yes the gear rotates if you use your finger but it is no longer connected to the drive mechanism. Apparently 'Duncans' driver, Angus MacWhirter and who can be seen in the earlier post, prevailed upon Rod Allcock not to connect up the gear in the roof as it was a health and safety hazard. On a number of occasions he had very nearly been decapitated by it and had lost count of the number of caps that had been whisked of his head if he got too close to it whilst on the move. You will recall this is the same driver who in 1899 was thrown off the footplate as a result of the locomotives erratic motion. The chain around the cab was added thereafter however the corrugated iron awning was not supplied until 1911 – in spite of repeated entreaties by the same Angus MacWhirter who disliked being soaked to the skin every time it rained. Malcolm

Bernard I know this thread is for plastic figures however there has been mention of Mastermodels. The full range of Mastermodels was covered in a series of articles in the Model Railway Enthusiast in about 1999. I may have copies hidden away somewhere should you require them. Malcolm

PD gifted the non-working “Duncan” to Rod Allcock who has since fully restored and re-motored her. Rod related the following story to me a few years ago. When PD let Rod have Duncan he couldn't get a cheep out of the motor. This was traced to the (very crude) brush gear having worn away and Rod replaced it with the brush gear from a defunct Minitrix motor. Duncan was then kitted out with new rear wheels (Jackson) and a set of Romford 20:1 gears driving the rear axle. This gave a total reduction of about 140:1 and a lot of noise. Then the original motor finally gave out. Later Rod was speaking to PD one day he said 'I suppose there is no chance of getting a new Ever Ready Mighty Midget motor' to which Rod replied that the true solution would be to strip out the internals and make a new chassis fitting inside the frame with a modern motor driving a layshaft and worm gears to both axles. There was a short silence broken by PD saying 'what, you mean turning it into a real locomotive? I'll have to think about that!' About three weeks later the phone rang and it was PD t say that he had spoken to Lord Craig about Duncan and he's given you carte blanche to do what you want with him!' PD also mentioned that “Duncan’s” nameplates were made of paper and were cut out from a Duncan’s chocolate bar wrapper. Duncan no longer has the vertical motor but still has the gears under the roof. The original worm and worm wheel were donated to Craig & District Electric Tramway Co. Tramcar No.2 - see NGA pages 24/5. The worm and worm-wheel had come from a Zenith motor bogie, most probably the bogie which powered the “Petrol Driven Work Car”. Exactly when the donation took place is not recorded. Three photos of Duncan attached, two of the cab showing the gears under the roof and one showing the current underside arrangements. The green commutators of the current motor can be seen in the centre of the loco either side of the layshaft. I regret I cannot show you more of the inside as basically quite a bit of dismantling would be required and, as the model is working well at the moment it is a case of it ain't broke don't fix it. If it ever breaks down to the extent that a complete dismantling is required I will remember to take some photos. Malcolm Duncan cab and driver jun 2020 by Malcolm MacLeod, on Flickr Duncan cab jun 2020 by Malcolm MacLeod, on Flickr Duncan underside Jun 2020 by Malcolm MacLeod, on Flickr

Yes I somewhere compared the goings on in Craigshire to a tv soap with even different actors taking the part of the same character. How many actors have played Lord Craig or Angus McPhwat?? Malcolm

I, with the exception of three magazines from the USA, have acquired copies of all PD's articles whether in RM or elsewhere. What is more they are all scanned although some could do with being re-scanned to a better standard (another job for another day) and they are all indexed in date order. Also acquired, scanned and indexed are articles or other items relating to Craigshire/CMR/PDH written and published by others mostly from 2000 onwards. This continues up to the present day namely the 009 News article on the Charter Day 2020. I cannot claim with any certainty this list is 100% complete, indeed I've just thought of another one not on the list! There is also an index of instances where photographs by PD (not necessarily of Craigshire) have been used to illustrate another author's work, again I cannot claim this is 100% complete. If anyone wants Pdf copies of the indices, just drop me a pm. Also pdf copies of any of the articles can also be made available for anyone undertaking their own research into PD and Craigshire. One problem with modern technology and in particular forums such as this one or NGRM, etc is the amount of interesting information that is available regarding PD and Craigshire but which could just disappear overnight if the proprietors of the forums pulled the plug out. Much information could be permanently lost. For instance Ted Polet (of Craigcorrie & Dunalistair fame) organises the 009 Society Dutch Group site which includes information regarding the visits over the years of C&MR locos to the C&AR. A recent revamp of the site caused me some angst as some of the information seemed to disappear however Ted pointed me in the direction of the archive where the information now resides. I won't have that panic again as the information has been downloaded and hard copy printed. So beware if there is anything you see on a forum that could be interest in the future. Download it and/or print a hard copy. Malcolm