Clem

8 hours ago, Headstock said:

The dia 246 looks pretty cool, how do you weather the window frames, it seems highly effective on the other Kirk revitalisations that you have done. For some reason, I can never get used to angle iron trussing on Gresley 51'1 1/2'' stock, it looks good though, part of the variation I like in models.

Good morning Andrew.

What a beautiful sunrise this morning! Regarding the window frames: well to be honest I've used 'Glue 'n' Glaze' this time rather than a very small amount of butatone to fix the windows in (my usual method) and whilst I haven't had to (typically) redo a couple of panes due to frosting this time, the white cut edges of the panes do show up more. So, in the course of general weathering of the carriage body, I'll need to pay attention to the window frames in order to mitigate the problem. 

I really like the angle iron trussing on the D246. It gives them a bit of a different look.

Another little snippet I've noticed in my perusal of photos of the train consists on the Grantham-Derby line that is that in some cases, the Gresley BT(4)s used have lookout duckets and are therefore do not appear to be part of the numerous lookout-less diagram 65s (used by me as a bit of a stop gap until I build more variation in). Unless some were retro-fitted with lookouts, these carriages appear to be diagram 128. 

52 minutes ago, Headstock said:

On building, I have almost completed all four sides (plus van compartment sides) on my second dia 210 twin, oodles of panels, droplights and door stops, do I get a medal too?

A definite round of applause! Looking forward to seeing your D210s together, back to back. 

3 hours ago, Headstock said:

This is a dia 177 van photographed at Hull Paragon in 1964.

 

The main things to note are.

 

Three ventilators on the roof, not four as on 120.

 

The simple toplights without rain guards or inset opening pivots.

 

The thick wooden headstock and longer wheelbase.

 

The outside springs and original axle boxes.

 

The double battery boxes on the opposite end from 120.

 

Vac cylinder and dynamo on opposite sides.

 

The body is slightly shorter on this variant but not that apparent in 4MM.

 

Also note that the telegraph code is BY, not BYP.

 

Embedded link to 53a models below.

Thanks Andrew, I think those mods are pretty do-able. I'll think, if he does that fits the vehicle, I'll start off with a Masokits sprung wagon W-iron set for a long wheelbase. I can then fit the springs on the outside. I'll need to look at the toplights and the vents should be easy enough to change. The rest looks like simple placement. 

I'm closing in on completing the D246 and I'll post a picture of it later (32 windows to cut and fit!). I may also look at a Diagram 61 BT(5) using kirks as per the D246. The Kirk solutions haven't got the finesse of an etched brass model but I think they do pass muster as part of the carriage scene in the mid 1950s.

18 hours ago, Headstock said:

 

Good evening Frank,

 

Got you, the Chivers LNER dia 120 BY. I'm slightly disappointed, I thought you may have discovered a new GNR NPC type, such as a hound van.

 

Two things to consider, the dia 120 BY were built for the former Great Eastern section, they wouldn't have been seen pottering around the moors above Bradford.  A further five, to a different diagram, were built for the southern area or the GN mainline, a tad more plausible but they differed considerably from your kit.

 

A second thing to consider, beyond historical accuracy. Many different  manufacturers have produced kits of these annoying little vans over the years, none have succeeded in producing an accurate one. Unfortunately, the Chiverse kit is no exception. You would end up with, a typically beautifully crafted sprung chassis, carrying an inaccurate body, of a prototype unlikely to be seen in the vicinity of Clayton, unless kidnapped by local sheep farmers. Sheep van anybody?

Good Afternoon Andrew,

I was interested in Frank's latest project with the 'Parkside GN pigeon van' (sorry Frank, I couldn't resist it :-) ). I note your remarks about the D120. I have also ordered one of these with a view to gradually working up to make up the train illustrated (below). (Sorry if I've posted this before).  I certainly thought it was a 120 but may be mistaken. A couple of questions. If not a D120, do you know what diagram it is? and, as it seems close to a D120, I wonder how difficult it would be to convert it to whatever diagram this is. There was a considerable number of D120s built (56) so I'm thinking (hoping?) they may have spread, at least to the East Midlands.

Everyone can make up their own mind on gearboxes and I have no wish to criticise anyone for their choice. However, I am most definitely in the HL camp and agree 100% with Tony Gee's and Frank's comments. You couldn't have a simpler gearbox to put together. I cut the gear stage axles to size using a carborundum disc in a mini drill and it takes just a minute and the idler spindle with the same, although my techinque is to do it a number of goes until it severs to avoid the motor having too much heat. (this seems to be the bit that seems to have been raised as complicated -  or have I got that wrong?). I always take my time on the assembly but it is incredibly straight forward and the big plus for anyone giving it a go is that the instructions are fully comprehesive.  These gearboxes are unbelievable value for money and people who do use them, swear by them (not at them!). 

Jesse, I wouldn't dream of ramming my ideas down anyone's throat and I don't think anyone else here would either. Surely this is just folk putting forward their own preferences, with the help of their own experience. As always, everyone to their own.

1 minute ago, Headstock said:

She must have seen your layout.

She's always nicking my men to photograph, plus the occasional wagon. 

15 minutes ago, dibateg said:

I'm just about to embark on a J6 - again a bit of a stretch, but  they have so much character.

Hi Tony,

if it's post March 1960, it's 64219. There's a slight overlap with (off the top of my head) 64257 by about 3 or 4 months. It went Summer 1960. 64219 went November 1961 if memory serves me correct.

It'll be fantastic to see it all in 7mm.

14 minutes ago, Headstock said:

Did you tell them you are EM and special?

My missus calls me 'special' ... (not sure about her meaning...)

3 minutes ago, Headstock said:

Yipee! First to page whatever, give me a medal. Don't nobody change nothink.

It's a con! I didn't receive my 50,000 long service medal. No prize either. After all the build up too!

5 hours ago, dibateg said:

Clem - I like that K2 with the curved smokebox handrail, I wonder if anyone's been brave enough to do that! The NER coaches would make an interesting addition to the fleet, they must have gone by the '60s. There is that excellent photo of a J6 pulling in to Basford North with one in the formation.

Hi Tony. 

Your 7mm layout is certainly coming on. It must be a very big undertaking in a huge room! On the NER carriages, a very large number of the numerous non-corridor diagram Y178s were withdrawn in 1953 with the remainder taken out of service by the end of 1959, with just a very few (fingers of one hand) making it through to 1962. So you'd be pushing it for your Basford North layout. (what year are you basing your layout in? I think you told me early 1960s?). 

 In fact the ex-LNER non-corridor carriages started being replaced by London Midland stock from about 1959 and all the photos I have taken after 1960 only seem to include the odd Thompson CL or brake third with the teak Gresleys gone altogether (I think they were either transfered to stored as, for instance, the diagram 210s were generally withdrawn 1961/2. - did they go to the Manchester area?)

61738. Lovely model Tony.  The K2s continued to run on the Summer excursions until the summer of 1960 although if memory serves me correctly Colwick borrowed them in that year from Sheffield amongst other places. The flying pigs arrived soon after the M&GN closed in 1959. The last Colwick J6 was withdrawn in November 1961 having outlived its class mates by a year or more. 1959 is the real transition year. Loads of L1s came the A5s disappeared etc.

1 hour ago, Tony Wright said:

Argumentative, controversial, self-opinionated, insensitive, useful, helpful, enlightening, disappointing, creditable, long-winded, upsetting, creative, misleading.........................

... and that's just applying it to the argument who won the 50,000th post prize!

4 minutes ago, t-b-g said:

We might need a recount.

 

The counter suggests that the Aussies may have taken the last wicket with 3 runs still needed.

 

It is suggesting that the first post on this page is 50,000.

 

Call for an enquiry of some sort.

Damn!! Robbed!! (echoes of VAR!)

OK got it! Do I get a prize? (to which I know the answer will be, 'yes, a kick up the a**e')

1 minute ago, St Enodoc said:

Well done Clem. Give yourself a gold star!

Ay? (as we say in Nottingham)

8 hours ago, Headstock said:

 

They were around on my North South axis rather than your East west. When they were running as individual units though, they might like to take a Detour. What You need is a horde of ex NER 49' T (8), they were all over the shop.

 

have a look at this awesome Not Gran - Ord, second pic down. Ex NER T (8) / ex GCR BT (7) / Thompson CL (3-4) / Twin CL (2-5) - BT (6) / LMS Vanfit. 

 

http://www.tracksthroughgrantham.uk/recording-the-railway/grantham-railway-galleries/photographs-from-1949-to-the-1960s-by-humphrey-platts/

 

P.S. The thirteenth image down is your steel twin set, noted for its permanently attached BY (Bird brain van)

Thanks Andrew. What a brilliant site. I've not seen any of these photos before. Yes I definitely need a NER T(8). They appear in photos of the line frequently. Do you know if there's a kit? I also clocked the B1 on the SP twin diagram 310. 

The photo of 61821 (and others) have NER? clerestories in the background and a 60' GC matchboard. I wish I could have got to Grantham 10 years earlier!

8 hours ago, 65179 said:

The photo on the cover of the Foxline Publishing book linked to below shouldn't be entirely trusted as it's a coloured b&w image (colouring done by Larry Goddard if memory serves), but there are ample black and white photos in this book of this and similar trains to confirm the mix of liveries as valid:

 

Thanks. Already ordered!

13 minutes ago, Headstock said:

I dug out some of the images of the GC Gresley hybrids. I have better quality ones but this shows the whole family in one train. At a glance, your average Jo might mistake them for standard 51' 1 1/2'' stock. As a model, the larger size would stand out quite well. The GC style underframes are more noticeable and definitely not Gresley bogies.

No mistaking that underframe. I have no pictures of them working on the GN line around Nottingham, mores the pity. It's such an interesting blend of style.

6 minutes ago, Headstock said:

I've built a few of the cotswolds kits for the LNER pipe, you can get away with the BR copy too (Parkside Bachmann) as above. B 74O652 is quite early, black patch on unpainted wood.

Unpainted wood. That's how I remember them.

44 minutes ago, Headstock said:

 

 

Ah, yes. Got a few of these to build - cotswold kits I think. I remember seeing them when I was a kid. (The real thing that is, not the Cotswold kits!).

50 minutes ago, Headstock said:

did I mention the reverse guards compartment BT (5) and I'm sure I have a photo of an SR Maunsell set deparing Derby. Don't forget the pipes.

Reverse guards compartment BT (5)  Diagram 62. High up on my prioiry list. I'll probably do another Kirk bash for it. I'd prefer to do it as a brass coach side etch but nobod does it as far as I know. Diagram 61 and Diagram 63 are also BT(5)s but with the guard's compartment in the usual place. That was another option.

The photo of the Maunsell set in Derby F. - I'd love to see that if you can find it. Pipes? Are you talking about the vac pipes on the sole bar below the step board?

It's funny. I have quite a lot of photos of Diagram 246s, but none of them give me a decent take on the detail of the carriage. From what I have, I've already found one error in the Isinglass drawing and I fear there may be more. Oh well. Best endeavours...

9 minutes ago, Headstock said:

So, Pinxton (my favourite mineral wagon) and Derby?

Yep. Burton beer, Manchester goods, loads of coal and iron ore. Lots of mixed goods - K2, K3 hauled. Steel out of Stanton. You know much of the local passenger stock and then there's the East coast seaside excursions, not to mention the North Wales and even Alton Towers excursions.

haha! I'll never finish it!

4 minutes ago, Headstock said:

The Greslified thirds were dia. 58, they were 56'1/2'' stock, basically a stretched 9 compartment version of the 8 compartment third on a GC underframe. I have a photo somewhere but I can't find it at present. They were rebuilt from ex ambulance train carriages. They pop up quite a bit on photos even after they stopped appearing in the CWN's for my area. 

Steve Banks did an article on the diagram 59 which was the BT(6) version of the 58. I was thinking of doing a 59 as they're pretty easy to knock up using Kirk carriages. BTW I'm doing a D246 at the moment. Still a lot of work to do on it yet but it's been an interesting kit bash....

10 minutes ago, Headstock said:

I must have missed the original post. I'm not so sure about the painted brown but Coach use to see a lot of the 60' matchboard carriages around his area, He remembered them as a weathered teak with the BR right hand end Gill sans numbering. The 60' matchboard stock also received crimson, There are colour photographs of carriages in Gresley Thompson sets in that livery, Weathered teak and Crimson would be fine for your area. By the way, I know you are somewhere on the GN lines around Nottingham but where exactly, West, East etc? 

 

Thanks your take on GC carriages in the 50s. It matches what other folk have said. I'd like to have a go at doing one in teak. I've ordered a Bill Bedford one.

I'm modelling West of Nottingham. Fictional station between Basford and Kimberley. I regret not doing one of the stations or even Awsworth Juunction. But I'm too far down the road now.

6 minutes ago, Headstock said:

P.S. another type I'm keen to get hold of are the Gresleyfied exGC 9 compartment thirds.

How were they Gresleyfied? Presumably Gresley bogies? what about angle iron trussing?

This came to mind. I think it's GC. The year is 1963. In departmental use.