Andy Hayter

2 hours ago, Andy Hayter said:

 

 

The defence is one that I well understand many cannot get to grips with.  

 

Having worked with teams in the UK, France and Germany, it has been interesting to observe the differences in  the way that teams work.

Given a typical problem that the team are asked to find solutions to:

 

The UK team would get on with the task.  Difficult issues would be brought to me for adjudication or a group get together to try and resolve.

The French team would go away and work with the problem but would request regular meetings where progress 

Sorry for some reason my machine seems to post randomly when  the "a" key is pressed   The full post should have read in reply to just following orders.

The defence is one that I well understand many cannot get to grips with.  

Having worked with teams in the UK, France and Germany, it has been interesting to observe the differences in  the way that teams work.

Given a typical problem that the team are asked to find solutions to:

The UK team would get on with the task.  Difficult issues would be brought to me for adjudication or a group get together to try and resolve.

The French team would go away and work with the problem but would request regular meetings where progress would be discussed as well as ways forward.

The German teams would frequently ask first off if there was a work instruction.

Having rules and following them seems top be deeply embedded i n the psyche.  Not an excuse for what happened but perhaps an explanation.

4 hours ago, jjb1970 said:

  At the time the world still largely bought the post-war argument that the killers were not only just 'obeying orders'

The defence is one that I well understand many cannot get to grips with.  

Having worked with teams in the UK, France and Germany, it has been interesting to observe the differences in  the way that teams work.

Given a typical problem that the team are asked to find solutions to:

The UK team would get on with the task.  Difficult issues would be brought to me for adjudication or a group get together to try and resolve.

The French team would go away and work with the problem but would request regular meetings where progress 

All this talk of abstemious use of the airways makes me feel very guilty - albeit that the vast majority were done as part of my work.

I was once accosted in Frankfurt Airport by one of these folk doing surveys.  When we got to the question, how many air trips had I done in the last year, she was shocked when I answered about 50.  No, No.  Trips - there and back is just one trip.  Yes indeed I  replied and I haven't included the extra flights where I have had to change planes en-route because there is no direct flight. 

However, because these were all short haul and because of the routes meant I had to use different airlines (including low cost), I never accumulated a mass of air miles.

On 10/12/2023 at 22:38, 45125 said:

Those are lagged tanks so will be used for products which require to be kept warmish. Coming from Salted they could be Gas Oil, Methanol,  Isopropanol or Isopropyl Acetate.

 

Al Taylor

Gas Oil possibly but Methanol, Isopropyl Acetate and Isopropanol do not need to be kept warm.  Indeed due to their flammability it is preferable to keep them at ambient temperature.  Or perhaps lagged tanks were used to keep cold material below ambient temperatures.

We seem to have drifted a long way from the subject but as one who has left the UK over 25 years ago, something intrigues me.

After some tragic road accident or  major disturbance on the streets, there is often an appeal for dashcam footage.  I assume these devices are mounted looking out of the windscreen and as suggested by some are therefore illegal.  Could any of the resulting footage than be used in court if it has been obtained through illegal means?

Could we now get back on topic please.

There is a wide range of model plants available from Noch.  Not to everybody's taste but they may be of use

https://www.noch.com/plants-laser-cut-minis

The talk of ventilators reminds me that Robinson was a fan of forced ventilation - whatever that was.  The consequence being that many of his coaches had no window ventilators - look at the original Barhams versus the LNER modified ones.  I assume such changes meant that the forced ventilation was lacking in some respects.

I agree that Malay and Indonesian food deserves to be better known than it is but in the Netherlands you can find some good Indonesian restaurants and in the past PO North Sea Ferries used to have a good Rijsstafel - much better on the Dutch crewed boat than the UK crewed one.

9 hours ago, Andy Hayter said:

 

From day 1, reporting of Covid deaths has been an issue around the world.  The basic issue is that AFAIK not one single person has died from Covid.  They have however died from pulmonary failure, heart issues, organ failure and so on all exacerbated by Covid.  So if someone with breathing issues catches Covid and dies, was it Covid or the pre-existing condition?  An autopsy might help determine but given the daily death rates, how many autopsies were carried out.

 

And yes some countries have made political points by ensuring low reported rates.

Bad form to quote yourself, but I Think there has been some fairly widespread misunderstanding because I did not explain properly.

So lets go back 100 years.

An outbreak of flu started in1918.  It developed and started causing thousands of deaths.  It spread worldwide and ended up with millions dying in 1919 and 1920.  The estimates of those that died ranges from as little as 25million up to perhaps 100million.   Record keeping then was rather less good than today hence this wide range of fatalities.  Like Covid, one problem is that flu, in  itself, does not kill people, but those susceptible to a range of conditions when attacked by flu can find those conditions are exaggerated and can then lead to death.  This can include many conditions and people that had not been identified as being at any way as being at risk.

That situation of uncertainty of whether flu was or was not responsible for a death led to a statistical way of saying how many people died as a result of ( not - not from) flu.  The average rate of deaths over 5 years was taken, and anything above that was called "excess deaths" and these were largely attributed to flu.  Typical UK excess deaths (attributed to flu) in the UK would run at 5k to over 40k in recent years.  Some of that has to be attributable to the success of flu vaccination and would otherwise have been higher.  Do note though that this method identifies how many died as a result of flu but not whether that applies to an individual.

Then along came Covid and frankly the same issues apply.  Telling if an individual has died from Covid is difficult - often impossible - but without  doubt many died with Covid and of those many deaths would not have happened in the absence of Covid.  However at an individual level telling if an individual would/would not have had problems/survived is largely impossible with current techniques.  Hence today we can say that an individual died with Covid but largely cannot say that they died because of Covid.  Statistically however we can see the thousands that have died as a result of (but not directly from)  Covid.

Exactly the same 

1 hour ago, Tony_S said:

I am sorry but all this stuff about whether or not someone died of Covid is just arguing for arguing sake. I am a polite person, but many would have said ridiculous . A lot of people died who wouldn’t have done so at that time if they hadn’t got infected by Covid. Many more would have died without the vaccines that were developed.  There was a lot of “these people would have died anyway” from certain politicians. As a vulnerable person due to immunosuppressive medication, I was very careful to avoid getting Covid. The Zoe project had statistics that suggested for people like me were 400 times as likely to die from Covid than those not immunosuppressed. It wouldn’t have been, according to you, the Covid that killed me, just the fluid building up in my lungs. 
As for what is written on death certificates, my Grandfather’s certainly didn’t say “cut his throat with a razor and threw himself down the stairs”. 

I may have misunderstood your argument Tony, but let me assure you that I am not a Covid denier.  However the way of collecting national statistics means that there are likely to be gaps* and anomalies as well as quite wide differences between how nations collect their data. 

* = under-reporting.

13 minutes ago, jjb1970 said:

 

Would that not be equivalent to saying bullets have never killed anybody, it is the trauma and damage resulting from a bullet wound that kills people?

 

I take the point that the statistics are blunt in not separating died with and died of, but I think huge numbers of people died who wouldn't have otherwise were it not for COVID.

A bullet can usually be directly linked to a death.  Covid was and is more difficult.  AFAIIA the UK death certificate does not/did not allow Covid as cause of death although Covid could be recorded as a contributing factor*.  I don't know if the same is true of traumas.   

* but in the early days when doctors were shuffling between deathbeds for 18+ hours per day whether that always happened is questionable.

47 minutes ago, Schooner said:

What utter twaddle.

 

 

 

 

One only needs a single type.

 

 

:)

 

God alone knows what the question was, but Swindon apparently decided the answer must be 'Okay!' under all circs.

I think the question was along the lines of, can you provide a small goods loco with condensing gear to reduce the smoke generated so that enemy gunners cannot range on the train?

I suspect the last shot in the video had the condensing gear shut off.

I have seen a similar post WW1 picture which IIRC was based on an LYR loco still in ROD livery. 

1 hour ago, PhilJ W said:

I looked at the deaths per million population column which was most enlightening. The official figures from some countries can be taken with a pinch of salt, DPRK for example had only six per million compared with most European countries which averaged 5-6,000. There was one place in the world completely untouched by the pandemic, the Falklands.

From day 1, reporting of Covid deaths has been an issue around the world.  The basic issue is that AFAIK not one single person has died from Covid.  They have however died from pulmonary failure, heart issues, organ failure and so on all exacerbated by Covid.  So if someone with breathing issues catches Covid and dies, was it Covid or the pre-existing condition?  An autopsy might help determine but given the daily death rates, how many autopsies were carried out.

And yes some countries have made political points by ensuring low reported rates.

7 hours ago, Caley Jim said:

 Why aren't the French getting on top of the gangs? 

 

I'll tell you why, they're only too happy to see the back of the poor souls and don't give a sou what happens to them after they are out of their hair!

 

Jim

The flaw in your thinking Jim, as expressed in the second statement, is that there is more than a suspicion that many of the gangs that are exporting asylum seekers to the UK are also involved in importing them to France (and other countries on the Med).   Since as a rough number, for every 10 that arrive in France, 1 moves on to the UK, there is a strong incentive to get to the top of these organisations and cut off the heads.

Weren't Stephen's kits based on zinc?

4 hours ago, tigerburnie said:

There has been a change in our house, I was the family comedian, but SWMBO has just taken over the role, having just got out of the shower, I was told I was not going out to get the coal from the bunker with wet hair as it's -5 degrees "You've been told, I'm in charge, so just sit and do as you're told".................................Apparently me laughing so hard I was almost crying was not the required response, did make I laugh.......me doing as I'm told.........................

I agree with @Gwiwer.  My own experience was returning across the Yorkshire Moors at the end of a successful potholing trip.  Kitbag with ropes in it and a couple of ladders were slung across my shoulder as we plodded across the frozen moor, in the dark, and with a strong wind encouraging the snow to be horizontal.  On arrival back at the road and our parked cars, I found that the ladders had frozen to my wet hair.

5 hours ago, kevinlms said:

There's the answer. Jouef WERE potentially taking sales off them, by selling them to other retailers. When buyers should have been buying them as passengers!

Wonder why Jouef failed in presenting that argument in court?

That may seem the simple logic but does not change the fact that Jouef were using the trade marks without permission.

56 minutes ago, iL Dottore said:

How sad is that, to be so reliant on the supermarket freezer cabinet that fresh meat is an oddity.

 

The last time I bought frozen meat was when. I bought veal kidney, as fresh couldn't be had for love nor money (however, rumour has it such things can be found at the various Turkish butchets in The Big City)

 

Oddly enough, fresh veal liver is easily found but VERY expensive.!

I agree but I probably would not have done 20 years ago and certainly not 30 years ago.  It is all about availability and if like your veal kidneys, only/mainly frozen is available then...............

duplicate post

Over the years I have been able to see the sometimes  extreme differences between national trends in providing the Xmas meal.

In Germany goose* (frozen from Hungary) was a favourite.  Relatively small (compared with fresh in the UK and also here in France) it was  ideal for 2 of us with a good Xmas meal with enough left over for subsequent snack and meals without eating the same thing for the whole week!   Frozen and fresh fowl available in equal measure.

* strictly goose was for St Martin's but plenty were happy to eat it at Christmas.  

We were eased into French Christmas with commuting down from Germany with a cold box full of German goodies.  However, other Brits have been horrified by by the lack of Xmas main meal goodies in the freezer cabinet.  No chicken, no goose, no turkey. I have heard of Brits panicking when 2 weeks before the big event still nothing in the freezer cabinets.   Then 5 days or so before the big event, the fresh meat counters are full of Capon, chicken (Bresse for the cognoscenti at 4-5 times normal price), a few turkey, plenty of guinea fowl and duck but all being sold fresh.   

1 hour ago, woodenhead said:

2 hours ago, Michael Hodgson said:

Why should they get all legalistic and  pernickety over the use of their logos

It's effectively free advertising for them. 

 

2 hours ago, Dungrange said:

 

That's the way you and I see it, but I understand that the legal teams at some companies don't see it the same way - they see someone trying to make a living off the use of their brand and they feel that they need to protect that brand.

It's probably never an issue when it comes to model trains as they are not likely to be ripping off the company through use of it's logo   But if someone malicously makes use of a logo they could potentially claim it was ok for them to use it without permission if they could demonstrate that the company was quite happy for a model train company to use it's logo without permission.

Sadly there is at least one example where that is not the case.

Accor hotel group, then owners of the CIWL trade mark and the logo and operators of the VSOE, took Jouef to court for the misuse of the trade mark (as displayed along the top of each coach) and the logo (in the middle of each side).  They won and shortly after Jouef went into receivership - possibly linked, possibly not.  

There could be no question of Jouef somehow degrading the worth of Accor's trade property, because on the VSEO itself, you could buy H0 models of the coaches in the train as souvenirs.  These were the Jouef models that infringed the trade marks!

If you are a member of a society, they may help with disposal of modelling assets.  It is important however to check first, since the work involved is considerable and some societies just do not have the resources.  They may well ask for a cut in the revenue generated and this should be specified in your will.  Some societies will handle the estate of members but only as donations - so taking 100% of the value but at least you know the models will have gone to those who appreciate them. 

I did have it explained to me once and thought I understood.

I think the objection to ring circuits is that if  a poor connection on the ring fails, it is likely to trip the circuit.  If you now reset the trip - which is what we all do isn't it - the now, no longer a ring main can go live with the possibility of now undersized cables drawing too much current.  

I assume this is based on unfortunate experience.

18 minutes ago, Philou said:

At least the modern electrics are very similar to UK domestic wiring (brown, blue and green/yellow) AND some socket manufacturers colour the inlets at the back so that everything SHOULD be the same. If I remember correctly, the phase is on the right hand side - same as the UK. Don't get me started on the safety guards inside the sockets, as unlike the UK earth pin being longer than the other two and also chamfered to depress the shutter inside, EU pins are round and there being no earth pin on the plug (the earth pin is part of the socket, if you didn't know) and a round-ended round pin isn't. the. easiest. to. PUSH. AGAINST. THE (straining now). SHUTTER! I have been known to take a persuader to the shutter (hammer and screwdriver) to force it or break it, and I'm not the only one - apparently.

 

 

Well yes - but definitely no.

I have a Legrande double socket where the internal connections on the socket means that on one side the right pin is live and on the other the live pin is left.

Further differences such as no ring mains  and very limited daisy chaining of supply lines makes French electrics a wholly different world apart from the cable colours and even there, after a switch you can (or could if the regs changed this week) use any coloured cable.  We have orange and purple as well as grey at various points in the house which was completely rewired some 12 years ago.

1 hour ago, CWJ said:

 

 

"The same applies to the pre-grouping era" - it does, but who can remember it? Modelling 1920 today is like modelling 1890 when I started 30 years ago.  It will always be a minority interest, albeit with some beautiful models. For anyone under 40, the privatisation era has filled their adult life, BR blue was 'old stuff', the popular steam-diesel transition era was 'when Dad was little' and anything before that is ancient history. I still hear people describingClass 150s as 'modern' just because they have internal combustion engines. This is equivalent to someone in 1990 calling a BR Standard steam loco 'modern'.  As depressing as it is for some of us, we need to get used to the fact that there are full-grown adults among us who have never known what it's like for the current year to begin with a '19'!

 

I chose pregrouping for 2 reasons.

1.  It is the area of UK modelling that interests me.   I am familiar with the shortcomings of the offerings.

2.  Rather inconveniently for your argument, from Andy York's last survey, there are as many people modelling Pregrouping as the contemporary scene.  9.2% PG vs 8.8% current scene.

The idea that I don't remember it so it is unimportant/doesn't deserve to exist does not hold water.