Switcher102

Hi John If you go for the flywheel I'd be interested in your opinion. Advantages and disadvantages. Rich

Hey John, you're better at English than I am at Dutch Gosh, thanks very much for the link to the wireless DCC. It isn't legal for Britain either. It seems strange that tuning this equipment to a legal wave band for Britain seems such a problem. I've heard that there's a lot of red tape involved. I wonder how difficult it would be for someone knowledgable in remote control equipment to produce a legal version? Sorry, can't help you with the text and photos Rich

Giles - Ah, no, I didn't mean that kind of see-saw action between two wheels although that does work very well in keeping all wheels on the ground it's not really the suspension I was thinking of, I mean, would it look right when dropping stone onto the loading deck? I'll let you know if I ever get anywhere with that. John - I miss interpreted before what you typed about the flywheel. I think what you are referring to with motors without magnets are coreless motors. Is that right? I've been confused by those motors, don't know how they work, but they are smoother and thanks for your Faulhaber recommendation but I would have thought they still needed flywheels. Flywheels are not just to smooth out motor performance but to add that thing that is missing in models, that old momentum thing I've been going on about. But how a flywheel affects the starting of a model I'm not too sure about. Sometimes it can make it worse I believe, but I wouldn't have thought it would make a 1:100 gear ratio worse to start. I'm sorry John but I'm having difficulty understanding the part where you refer to a 1:60 delay and the rest. Can't think what that is referring to, unless it's momentum delay set into a DCC decoder. Can't picture your suspension idea but go for it John, we need as many ideas as we can get on proper visibly acting suspension that bounces like the real thing, no one has yet tackled that problem on small scale models as far as I know. The key with such small scales is in slowing things down. As the guy says in the first paragraph here …. http://whiteriverandnorthern.net/clinic_39.htm … "The first and most important key to success is slowing things down; then, when you think things are slow enough, slow them down some more!" Excellent advice I think, and Giles has already done a good job with the speed of his lorries. Now a slowed down suspension system would really add to the effect. (Have a watch of the video of this guy's amazing excavator, I think your flabber will be gasted, especially when you realise that this N scale, and the American N scale which is even smaller still) Interesting info Time - You mentioned bad starts John, one of the main advantages of DCC is curing bad starts by altering the CVs to give the motor those little 'kicks' it needs to get it going gradually, but here's the interesting thing about recent developments with DCC. I have heard that in America some people are using DCC remotely i.e. sending the digital information not via the tracks but via radio waves to the decoders. Do you realise what that means? That means that you would be able to run your remote controlled vehicles off your DCC controller, and Giles, that means you could place a sound decoder in your lorry and you've then got the ability to fine control your motor via the CVs and also have sound. It also means you could drive your locomotives anywhere. Whether converting a DCC controller to remote control is something any remote control enthusiast could do I don't know. I can see that you connect a transmitter to your DCC controller output and add receivers to your decoders, but it's the details that's the tricky bit. I bet Giles could do it

Hi Giles Ah, I see, yes, I missed John's point. Going back to centrifugal clutches I have heard of the Dyna Drive clutch that you mention and have found a web site selling them. Also hoping to get something called a Tracktopack clutch, but I think they'll both be too big for road transport. And such a system may necessitate working brakes. Quote:- " …. though it doesn't stop in a hurry!" Ha ha, yes …. exactly! Neither does the real thing. With the suspension I think the see-saw action is the way to go. Even at a very small scale I think you'll find that you can get something to balance and rock back and forth quite slowly, just have to get the weights right. Not sure how to fit that idea into a small enough system yet though but I've got some ideas. I think realistic working suspension would make one heck of a difference to road transport, even rail stock perhaps. Thanks very much for the info on your exhibition attendance. Burton-on-Trent is an easy distance for me; even Newark can be done in a day. I look forward to it.

Hi John Well, I will gladly share my experiences when I get to that stage. Quote:- "It makes no sense to put a flywheel on the gearbox, because the speed is slowly for effect". The flywheel is not for making things go slowely, it's for giving momentum. Models are not very big on momentum. With the real things momentum is a powerfull force. I'm even going to attempt adding flywheels to my railway rolling stock. Whether it will make them react more like the real things I don't know. I look forward to following the progress of your Model A Ford pickup. Hi Giles My stuff at the moment doesn't include any moving road transport, and it's a bit unconventional … I did an introduction …. crumbs, it was last October. I'll consentrate on getting at least one proper working locomotive done first. Quote:- "One could spring the rear axle without adding more complications by having the rear axle bearings, and the motor/gearbox all mounted on a subframe, and springing that......" Ah but how would you spring it? That's the question. The trouble with modelling is that you can't scale down gravity. Things react too quickly. Springs would bounce too quickly and they'd probably only bounce once. Movie makers can easily solve the problem with their models, all they have to do is make their model move fast and then play back in slow motion. Remember Thunderbirds? That was Gerry Anderson's solution with his road transport. He also added dust effect which is something else I'd like to do. I've lots of big ideas but at the moment I'm not too hot on carrying them out. Mmm, a solution to giving tread to those tyres. I wouldn't know how to do that myself yet but I'll cross that bridge when I get to it. Thanks. I'd love to see your stuff for real. If you feel like letting us know when you get up north of London somewhere I'd try my damndest to attend. Rich

Hello Giles Well, I've been meaning to congratulate you on this magnificent work for some time now, in fact it's the main reason I've joined RMWeb. This is one of the most impressive threads I have ever seen, and it so happens it's also just what I've been looking for. I was directed to it over a year ago now I think when posting on the O Gauge Guild forum about road transport and my ideas for its future i.e. making it actually work, not like the Faller system where they dart about like toys, but working remotely and moving more like the real things, with sound decoders in them and many other big ideas, and I find someone's already had a go .... excellent. Whenever you delve into the world of remote control models you get funny looks if you mention prototypical movement, but this shows it can be done and how much more exciting it is to watch. You've done an excellent job Giles, a man after my own heart in such matters, and I thank you very much for the great work you have done on this, also in photographing and explaining the procedure so well to help us who are not so skilled. When I get more experienced at modelling I now have a superb step-by-step guide. A big thing with me and models is movement, in fact so much so that I am even going to attempt to make it mechanically impossible for my models to move in any other way than like the prototype, even if they break down or the power cuts off. The big difference between a model and the real thing is the relative power of momentum. Momentum has much greater power in the real thing, so, as I see it, the way to redress the balance in models is by the use of weight, flywheels and weaker motors. The motor should not have the power to start and stop the model suddenly. Only via the additional help of the flywheel torque should the motor be able to get the model moving. Of course, this also involves other complications, such as a centrifugal clutch and preferably continuously variable gears …. eeeek! So, for road vehicles I will try for the same accuracy of motion but of course there's less space. Won't stop me trying though Two things I aim to add to all my models, road and rail:- Flywheels - Have you considered a flywheel? Do you think there would be room for an effective flywheel? I notice you have gone for a 1:100 ratio gear box, a wise choice when you only have the choice of one gear ratio. With such a high gear ratio even a small flywheel might be very effective in stopping any sudden stops and starts. Smooth continual movement I think makes such a difference to a model. It removes it so effectively from the world of the toy. Suspension - I don't mean the normal type given to locomotives which is mainly to keep the wheels in contact with the track, I mean a type that actually noticeably bounces, at a realistically slower balletic rate. A mammoth task at such a small scale but I haven't given up on it yet. I reckon it means deleting springs from the design. Unless you are a spring manufacturer I'm not sure any springs on the market could be adapted to make such a small scale model bounce like the real thing. I think the solution has something to do with a balancing mechanism rather than springs (a see-saw action). I'll let you know if I develop such a system (would especially improve your model when being loaded). Also something to bear in mind for road vehicles is that they receive extra suspension help from pneumatic tyres. Here's an idea for replacing your hard tyres with a softer version, it's a joy to watch this if only to see an artist at work:- Then of course it would be nice to add tread, but how would you do that? Something I will be looking into for remote control models is remote battery charging. Man handling the model every so often in order to recharge the battery is a bit of an illusion spoiler. Do you know anything about induction charging? It seems to me that there could be a designated area on your layout where you could park up your lorry and recharge the battery without even touching it. Bear in mind that all this is theory on my part at the moment. You may be thinking these ideas are just going too far but for me quantity is not really a need, it's quality I am much more interested in, and you've made a superb start towards that aim. Thanks again Giles Rich