olivegreen

Standard procedure for rather too great a proportion of the population this side of the Channel, sad to say.

Not only her but, being of Scandinavian origin, I also have Knut Oyl as a cousin. Sorry… back to topic. Waiting impatiently for two fat ladies to cross the Channel. Mike (88 - geddit?)

He'll be the one who lives in monstro city (sic) then...

Pie in the sky. Why, for Heaven's sake, do any goods need to be delivered at that speed? Surely it is the continual flow that matters in responding to demand, not the absolute speed. Reading in that article the quotations of some of the supporters, I realise that I no longer inhabit the same planet as them. Am I getting old? (followed, I hope, by 'oh no, not you!' ... as in the song!)

Having just read this thread I am quite astonished at the impatience/naïvety/stupidity (or insert whichever word you prefer to avoid insult) of the original post regarding something that, according to what is written there, is nothing whatsoever to do with Hattons. Hattons is a company upon which many of us rely for the excellent overall service it gives: if the delivery service it chooses is not up to standard, it is not Hattons' direct fault, although it does the company no favours, I would agree. I have never had any problem whatsoever with Hattons - I have no connection with the company other than as a satisfied customer, and hate to see it criticised in the manner of the OP. I would hope that others might agree.

Must be Z gauge.

There was worse: look at the 'White Pullman' train pack!

No need to: most already know that the answer is zero. (or very near to zero).

Because of cost, principally, especially if one has a lot of rolling stock. But it is a personal choice, I accept.

And that is precisely the point of my questioning Hayfield's view on 'what the French have done to their railways'. As has already been discussed at length in these threads, French railways have been criticised at the highest levels of government (note the paradox!) for excessive expenditure on LGV and TGV whilst secondary routes and what one might qualify as 'commuter routes' around Paris and other large cities have been starved of investment over decades and suffer from daily overcrowding, poor services, frequent breakdowns and more yet. Additionally, public transport, secondary railway routes included, outside the conurbations here broadly serves those going to and from work and school at each end of the day with little in between. As to who pays for what to keep services going and calling at certain points…that opens up yet another long discussion. That is what the French have done to their railways, which is why the present government is trying to correct the problem. Whether they achieve it, given the reaction to any change whatsoever by the unions, remains to be seen. I hate to disillusion people but an occasional long TGV journey through wonderful countryside on holiday to a dream destination is a great thing for sure, and I love it, too, but it is NOT the daily life of the vast majority of rail travellers in France. To keep things in perspective we should perhaps beware of comparing apples with oranges! (Edited to add that I am aware this has not a lot to do with HS2 !)

I sympathise with much of what you say, but could you elaborate a bit on your comment about French railways, please? I have a slight feeling that we do not see things from the same perspective!

Reply received from Hattons: the lower, pre-order price as on our accounts with them (ie not the higher price in the e-mail Hattons sent yesterday) will be honoured. Full marks to Hattons, and I thank them. Mike

Same here for the Taw that I ordered many moons ago at a pre-prder price somewhat below the one Hattons give on the e-mail received today, yet they have never told me they are not going to honour that lower pre-order price! I'll be contacting them this evening for clarification. Edit: have contacted Hattons - awaiting reply.

Me too: somewhere up in the attic I have one of the red Tri-ang exploding cars. I did have a rocket-launching car too, but gave that to an Oxfam shop many years ago. Oh to see them now behind Channel Packet in LMS red, a few 6-wheeled beer tankers, some opens liveried for coal companies that never existed and a Highland Railway brake van in Deutsche Bundesbahn livery. Bliss. … Profuse apologies to the MiM and others of a sensitive nature... back to reality...

Apart from the importance of Rule 1, if you are a consenting adult - as it were - are doing it in private and nobody else sees it, who is there to care if it is entirely fictitious?

There are some interesting videos on these issues on youtube, showing how they are set up and the effect on a following pantograph; a number of them made by the French/SNCF in research for their high-speed lines.

We have been round and round the subject of alternative routes for the seaside stretch between Exeter and Newton Abbot many times. The simple, though rather unpalatable facts are that an alternative route is unlikely to be built in the lifetime of any of us writing on this forum, I'd suggest, however much the local media and population protest. Once elected by his or her constituency, an MP's loyalty is to parliament, not directly to his or her electors: given that, and that public money would be at stake for building such an alternative route, which would need parliamentary authority, and given also the percentage of the UK population that lives (in railway terms) south west of Exeter (I don't know what it is, but it is not very high), I doubt that any MP - even a West Country one - would vote for massive expenditure on something that inconveniences that relatively small population for just a few days a year on average. Especially when enormous amounts of taxpayers' money is already pretty much committed to other railway projects that should serve a far higher percentage of the population - HS2 being one, of course. This is not a political comment, just a fact of governmental life: it is less onerous to accept slings and arrows from the locals, and pay the repair bills, than to vote for new build. Which is why we should continue to expect drivel and platitudes from MPs! (Edit: typos - as usual!)

I'm pretty convinced that one of the main reasons French railway magazines cease publication is their price. As oldudders said (above) their value for money is generally abysmal. In addition their content is often recycled stuff from other (not acknowledged) sources, as the OP indicates. We have been here before in these discussions and one argument is that they do not carry the sort and amount of advertising that UK (and other, I'm sure) magazines do, but that simply demonstrates to me, at least, lack of enterprise on the publishers' part. In several of the magazines, the bulk of the advertising is of the publisher's own other publications…how can that bring revenue in order to keep down the cost of the magazine? (Other than by banking oldudders' money and not delivering the goods for weeks on end! I sympathise with you.) As a comparison for general railway publications, rather than just modelling ones, the UK publication Southern Way, which is well-researched and has comment by those who know what they are talking about, represents far better value than any French mag- or book-azine I know when comparing price/content/frequency of publication/drain on one's budget and so on. (Usual disclaimer - I'm just a very satisfied customer). Yes, it has far less colour than many (as does MRJ, for example) but that is hardly the point when speaking of content.

The difficulties you mention in your third paragraph, Edwin, are well understood but I find it hard to accept that it is beyond the wit of intelligent man to overcome at least the customs and immigrations elements of them, whether or not the UK is in the Schengen zone. And given that the UK is not in said Schengen zone, none of that need in the least be affected by Brexit, whatever the doom merchants on either side of that particular debate might have you believe. All that said, the fear of an attack in the tunnel would still lead to airport-style baggage and passenger checks… but how and where? … at which point I as a non-expert give up! Edited to add that I share your feeling on the future success or otherwise of the extension to Amsterdam - it will be interesting to see …it makes me wonder what the financial (rather than politically convenient) success is of Thalys from Paris to Amsterdam: I wonder if beyond Brussels, or perhaps Antwerp (well worth a visit by the way - far better than Brussels, but I admit to a bias!), Thalys really pays?

I think we have different aspirations in that field!

Whilst I agree with you in principle and would support greater use of the existing European rail networks (before even thinking of expanding them), the sad fact is - as has been mentioned earlier in this thread - that current low-cost air travel killed all ambition of long, perhaps overnight, rail travel on cost grounds. One only has to look at the intended night sleeper services through the Channel Tunnel, which never really got off the ground, as an example of that. Another fact of the travel industry to remember is that in many sectors there is greater movement from UK to elsewhere in Europe than the reverse (apart from Brits coming home, of course!). For example, though not an ideal comparison, I accept, Brittany Ferries' main non-freight income has long been from British tourists, not French or others. I fear that your suggestion of direct travel from London to other cities in Europe (other than those currently served, that is) is, as has been said, a non-starter until the low-cost air travel bubble bursts. And then there is the cost to be considered…remember, sleeper trains have low passenger-per-carriage loadings, which is where the cost argument so often fails. Other than that, I welcome the ability to cross vast expanses of Europe without changing trains…and speaking as a resident of France, especially without having the nightmare of having to change in Paris! Mike Typos edited

Agree. As a former Chartered Engineer of many years, albeit my specialisation is not railways, I am appalled at so shallow an article in a magazine/webzine (call it what you will) called 'The Engineer'. I sincerely hope we don't see the article quoted by uninformed journalists under some heading like 'Engineers power trains by the sun'! To understand more where the 'research' is going, one needs to read the report referred to (Riding Sunbeams): I confess to only having read the executive summary plus a few other bits, but am left with the feeling that we are seeing here nothing more than a university project (which is commendable in itself for furthering science - don't get me wrong): there are too many 'ifs', 'mights' and 'possiblys' for any pragmatic application of the supposed advantages, which in any case are a maximum of 10% of the energy needed…though where the figures come from seems to me a bit of smoke and mirrors especially for the UK situation. To keep the research aspect in perspective, I note that one of the authors is from 10/10 climate action, whose aim is quoted as: 10:10 is a registered charity that exists to help people take action on climate change. Whether we’re installing solar panels on schools and community buildings, cooking up a vegan feast, celebrating the power of onshore wind, or lighting up our favourite places with LEDs, we’re positive, inclusive and dedicated to cutting carbon. Charity no: 1157 363 . Not a lot to do with railways or major engineering planning, methinks: more about banging the green drum which, again, is commendable but it is a question of context. The other author is a post-doctoral researcher and is not quoted as being an Engineer (by which I mean the true, usually Chartered, sense). Whatever your or my view on the idea, it is a little too early in the development process to affect GWML electrification! (Edited for typos)

Err, not entirely. The other side of the coin is that SNCF wants to charge regions such high prices for TGVs to go and stop there that those regions won't pay any more. And that is even before thought moves towards building further LGVs. Also, with reference to your comment on maintenance costs, as far as SNCF is concerned, if one delves into where the money goes (insofar as that is possible - which is pretty difficult!) the combined high cost of TGV rolling stock and LGV permanent way maintenance is precisely one of the major factors that has put SNCF into its parlous financial position. I merely repeat what is in the public domain here - I do not profess to have any other specialised knowledge. Yes to all of that, according to the latest reports here.

I agree with you in all of that. Just to clarify my rather throw-away line on potential savings from HS2 (I am on record here as disagreeing with it in its currently-planned form), from what I have learned from those far more versed in the subject than me I believe that what the country needs is more pathways in certain areas (for example, WCML - hence a new or newly upgraded parallel route is needed) and, I'd suggest in the 21st century, widespread electrification, at least of major routes (for example, the entire length of the GWML, and perhaps that to Plymouth (and beyond?) too). What the country does not need is super high-speed links, with their associated long-term and very high maintenance costs. Even with the far greater distances involved the French have come to realise this, and the current government is planning to put a stop to further new investment. [Edited to add that the equivalent of the national audit office puts SNCF (and its associated bits disguised under other names) well over 47 billion euros in the red, a debt that is increasing at a rate of 3 billion euros per year largely, it is said, due to LGV and TGV expenditure, whilst the rest of the network (it is also said) crumbles] On contracts in general - governments (and not only the UK one) are as a rule pretty bad at doing them. Let us hope it improves, as you and jamie (above) suggest.

Well, first bin HS2 as currently designed (which is likely to bankrupt the country as well, to borrow your phrase) …oops… can of worms opened... Retiring to darkened room.