Kingmoorkid
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Posts posted by Kingmoorkid
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It was the Central Hotel when I was a lad. Used to work part time in Woolworths opposite and would often 'lunch' in the cellar bar which was under the hotel, it was nicknamed the Dive and was ropey even in the mid/late 1970's. I think there was an separate entrance either from the front by means of some steps near the main entrance or down the East side. Can't remember going through the hotel reception.
If great models are created to invoke great memories - this really hits the mark for me.
Simon
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Here is 60024 carrying its Clitheroe Castle name plates pulling the Preston Lanfina to Lindsey Oil Refinery Tanks at Hall Royd junction today.
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I saw this and thought of you (part2). I took Junior Kingmoorkid to Dent for first time last Monday - he was impressed that he can actually walk across the tracks over a crossing on his own using just the simple skills of looking and listening - no flashing lights, no fluorescent jackets, no supervision!
Anyway took some pictures which just reinforce how you have absolutely nailed the magic of Dent. It hasn't changed that much in the 40 years I've been going up there, just wish the signal box was still standing really was an integral part of the scene.
Kingmoorkid
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Mike
Continuing my 'I saw this and thought of you' posts - here's a view of Dent station that you don't often see. For those not familiar with the topography I'm half way up Great Knoutberry Fell looking West across Dent Station to the Lake District about 30 miles away.
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I saw this and thought of you. Making a pleasant change from the usual industrial tanks LYR Class 27 was out and about on the Embsay and Bolton Abbey line on Tuesday, just about 10 miles from your front door!
Just getting some of those 21t hoppers onto my workbench - picked up a couple of cheap Parkside kits from Dave's Cherished Trains at Hellifield station (if you haven't been well worth the relatively short trip as you never know what might be for sale).
Kingmoorkid
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Haworth station. Midland 4F steaming off.... This is the prototype of the Bachmann model.
Jeff
Jeff/Jason
Sounds like a grand weekend in Bingley and Haworth - but I'm going to trump that 4F with an 8F that was running on the KWVR mid week.
95280 in all its glory. Now I've done extensive research and can confirm this specific engine pulled a 12 coach troop special from Bacup to Warcop via Kirkby Stephen during the morning on 1st April 1959!
Keep the good work going - it's even inspired me to get a bit of modelling done in past couple of weeks.
Simon (whose been lurking but not contributing much!)
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Jeff et al
On subject of local trains DMUs were around in 1966/67 by look of reference material I have. The local Bradford Carlisle stoppers seemed to have a wide range of steam haulage right up to 1966, in MIchael Welch book Settle and Carlisle Steam Finale (full colour highly recommended - Runpast Publishing ) there are pictures of Britannia 70035 on three stanier coaches in 1964, 70006 with three mark ones in 1966, Clan 72006 in 1965 and my favourite Royal Scot 46152 with three coaches, a bogie parcels van, four vans and a DMU being towed north in 1965.
Something there for everyone.
And I've found in same volume 3f number 43295 heading a freight south in 1957, and a superb picture of a very grubby WD 90243 heading some Covhops north at Dent in 1966.
Few locals from Bradford to Garsdale headed by 2-6-4 Stanier and Fairburn Tanks and a Carlisle to Appleby with a Fowler 2-6-4. Its well worth tracking down this book if you can.
Simon (KK)
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Right - a question for anyone who can supply a specific answer....
Can anyone recommend a good reference book/website for diesels on the S&C between around 1960-1968?
I have plenty of links to bits of sites but if any of you experts can bolster my resources, that'd be good.
My diesel operations, for this period on KL, will likely be dominated by 40s and 45s. I've the odd photo of 37s on the line, along with 25s and 31s.
Jeff
Jeff
I've attached a link to the David Hey collection - great site with some links to sites by a selection of photographers and a few anecdotes - a real goldmine.
There is a load of stuff from Aire Valley, Holbeck, S&C etc.
Diesels over S&C in 1960s were mainly class 25s and class 40s and 45s on freight with occasional class 24 and 47 and nearly always Holbeck class 45s on expresses.
The Metrovic COBOs double headed on Condor ran in very early 1960s. 37s were a rarity until early 1980s as were the Class 31s which didn't often get passed Blea Moor.
Rails in The Fells has picture of double headed Claytons at Armathwaite but that was a bit of a one off I think.
http://www.davidheyscollection.com/
I haven't got any books dedicated to 1960's diesels on the S&C but smattering of good colour pictures in various publications. If you want something specific I'll dig something out.
Cheers
Simon
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If it's shunters you want, here is a (wrongly numbered and with buffers rather than blocks) L&Y Pug, Class 23 and the ubiquitous Jinty, although I just class the latter as tank engines really in the case of Bacup as they work trains in, shunt them and then take them out again rather than being allocated just for shunting. The yard is too small to justify that and in practice, I believe that most of the time the loco that worked the freight in would do the shunting, regardless of what it was - seen lots of photos of Black Fives doing just that.
How confusing ... Bacup stuff at Luneside the only two layouts that I'm avidly following. That chimney must have some sentimental value Sandside not many in the Aire Valley with a 45 degree top!
Anyway popped into Ingrow on the KWVR yesterday just in time to see the 4F 43924 passing, until comments on these sites about left and right hand drive never realised there was a difference. All I can say is that with the 4F all the exciting action goes on between the frames....brilliant to see in detail and it sounded great as well.
Think it's a sensible idea to extend your modelling period Jeff - a 10 year period from say 1957 to 1967 should cover a lot of bases, although it might cost a fortune.
Keep up the good work...
Simon.. (KK)
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Thanks for all the contributions.
I suppose the big eVENT is my decision NOT to go ahead with the vent. I agree that the siting gives a direct indication of the line of the tunnel. I used an aerosol can plastic top to represent the vent in line with the portal and it looks a bit daft so close to the portal itself.
So, the vent has gone. Less work I suppose! However, the derelict shepherd's hut.... Bill, I think the article you were referring to was David Wright's in the August 2012 BRM. His method uses DAS - which I've plenty of - and I'll study the article with interest.
Jeff
Jeff
I know I kicked the vent idea off but having looked at the pictures I'm in the no Vent camp as well now - I don't think it would look like it was in the right place in relation to the tunnel mouth.
Good decision. Get some walls up that hillside.
Simon
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Jeff
Fantastic progress - the walls and fells are looking superb, that green stuff really has brought the fell to life, looking forward to the Air Shaft, I was up at Blea Moor last Friday but didn't get past the Signal Box, (the Ribblehead to Chirk log train is an impressive sight over the viaduct though).
I haven't bothered posting recently (too much else going on) but I've been tracking progress on this and on my new near neighbour's Bacup - both proving inspirational.
The 4F looks great - the Skipton based ones were regulars on the line early to mid 60's but they seem to have had tender cabs I think for extra protection when working snow ploughs.
Now autumn is fast approaching I'll be making more sensible contributions to the cause....
Simon (KK)
Here's a photo I know all Lunesters like a nice S&C picture!
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Please remember that KL is set predominantly around the mid 60s, with the option to cover 1958-1960ish.
Consequently, the steam locos on the layout will generally be in a grotty condition.
Now what kind of state would the DIESELS be in? As relatively "new kids on the block" I expect they were comparitively clean.
Jeff
Evening Jeff
There never seemed to be much cleaning of diesels at Kingmoor - they were pretty grubby by the early 60s from photographic evidence. When I started spotting in early 70's the Class 25s and 40s allocated to D10 Preston Division were often in filthy green livery which they had carried for ten years plus, I suspect they had had minimal external cleaning in that period, but still seemed mechanically sound. I think a well weathered diesel on some well weathered wagons will look the business trundling over that viaduct.
There are a few livery options to go for as well - how about a lightly weathered all green Holbeck Peak with no white stripe, split headcodes and small yellow ends as seen on D16 in 1967.
Your rate of progress is impressive by the way - the walls are fantastic.
Cheers
KK (Simon)
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Scheming and planning needs inspiration. How about this?
I'm pretty sure that's the brooding mass of Ingleborough in the background.
The photo is from the wonderful, highly recommended collection of the late Paul Claxton, compiled by his brother, Mike, in memoriam. The collection is licensed under Creative Commons: http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-nd/3.0/deed.en_US
Cheers,
BR(W).
Great picture but I think its approaching Ais Gill from the North and that's Wild Boar Fell in the background. Still a great place to watch steam specials & freight trains go by, loaded coal and log trains are passing here at about 10 miles an hour as they struggle the last few yards to the summit.
KingmoorKid (Simon)
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I've finally got round to putting a touch of paint onto the bridges - well, part of the branch bridge....
As my working "model" I've used this picture from Garsdale, taken earlier this year by Simon (Kingmoorkid):
post-17870-0-25363100-1366230774_thumb.jpgI haven't got any greens in my paint kit, but I'll add the algae/mould effect with scatter when I fit the bridge in.
Here is my attempt at a grotted-up, 100 year old bridge fascia:
The brick arch liner is suitably filthy with years of soot:
Jeff
Jeff
Great start with the weathering - this aqueducty/bridgey thing is really very good and it's going to look great when in situ. Small point of correction it was Gargrave not Garsdale.
Think that green slime finish in the shady parts will be hard to reproduce convincingly anyway....
Simon (KK)
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Hi Simon, good shot and as Jeff says, always good to see a JUBE in action.
Bodgit
Bodgit
It even looks OK standing still - after being a rusty basket case not that long ago it is a great credit to the restoration team, I'm sure there will be gnashing of teeth from few purists but I guess it will be in green at some point in the future. Lets hope they add one of those yellow diagonal stripes.....
KK
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While you lot have been discussing dry stone walls the Kingmoorkid has been out today amongst the dry stone walls watching the trains. In this case a BR Maroon Jubilee 45699 on it's loaded test run. Now I know it's not an authentic livery but it looks OK to me, and for some reason better than the LMS equivalent.
It's not the best picture I've ever taken but a Jubilee at speed is always worth a look at.
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It is one of those quirks of modelling that if you were to copy the weathering in that photo, unless you could present it as evidence, nobody would believe it on a model.
Talking of weathering, did you see the amended Cravens DMU with the muck taken off the sides Jeff? I know you commented on the filth, just wondered what you thought of it cleaned up? To be honest, without seeing the photos of the real thing, I wouldn't have believed that something with such dirty underframes could look so glossy up top!
OK I'll admit to be a Bacupster as well - from chimney pots to Black Fives, quite inspirational. The Craven DMU looks great now.
KK
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I've been doing some of the really fiddly tasks on the bridge fascias.
The photos show the filler work needed to provide some kind of decent transition between the Slaters dressed stone (effectively corrugated plastic sheet) on different faces (at 90 degrees) of the pillars.
The filler was applied "carefully" and left to set for 6 hours. This is the kind of mess you get...
After an hour of rubbing down and scraping - I use 220 grade sandpaper, the sections have melted into one another so the transition looks reasonable when painted (which I clearly haven't done yet!!)...
I'm sure there are people who are more skilled than me, but I'm quite happy with the result.
I'll do the other face later this evening.
Jeff
Jeff
Think it looks great - I'm posting another Gargrave bridge pic (took these weeks ago while waiting for some steam engine working that never turned up) you might not spot it but on each of the stones there is an indentation in the middle where the masons lifted it into position - if you want the ultimate in accuracy....... Still love the fantastic colouring though.
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I've managed to get the second fascia to a comparable stage as the first.
Both need copings and a bit more walling on the insides of the pillars - followed by a bit of filler and rubbing down.
Then the arch ring needs "scoring" and a keystone adding.
Jeff
Jeff
I'm still monitoring progress (or lurking) but been a bit busy in past couple of weeks - glad to see the Air Shaft for Lune Fell is still in the pipeline. Anyway progress on the bridge/aqueduct is going well, couple of interesting comments in previous threads about finish - so thought I'd attach photo of overbridge at Gargrave Station which isn't a million miles from your design and has a wonderful 'patna' after 150 years of weathering.
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Three more pics showing the extent of plastering - before the supply ran out!
Jeff
Like that last picture - is it just me or does it like a resting Polar bear!
Was walking the Dales Way up the real river Lune yesterday alongside the old Low Gill route - a couple of fantastic viaducts over the river, sadly forgot camera, the Low Gill viaduct on a curve with an old pack horse bridge below, is worth a look at from a detail perspective.
Kingmoor
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Evening all,
can't really afford to go missing for a few days on this thread (Wedding Anniversary, Easter, kids, father, etc etc) I see you've been moving mountains Jeff - plan c looks like a winner and I like the idea of the aqueduct/bridge. I didn't get any pictures of the south end of Blea Moor but the watercourse over the railway is a substantial construction about 15' wide with retaining walls, a stepped stone set base and plenty of stone work. The aqueduct in Dentdale is a lot simpler. Should be fun building whatever you fancy.
KK
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Don - when I read your post this morning I thought you were joking. My dad - who lives in Barrow (they don't usually get a lot of snow and I was supposedly going to see him this weekend) - tells me it's the worst he can remember since the late 70s.
South-West Scotland is particularly hard-hit - so Simon (Kingmoorkid), you were lucky to get those photos the other day before the blizzard hit!
Just going out to check how my own snow/plaster-scape is setting...
Jeff
Jeff - too true there. Can't get car off my drive in Ilkley it's about a foot deep, hasn't been this bad for a few years. Think the S&C is still closed, snowploughs have been sent to Kirkby Stephen area so must be drifting badly up there.
No snow in Carlisle though. Bizarre.
Kingmoorkid
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Thanks Simon, wow that looks a lot bigger than my 9 x 2, ?????????I will now need a complete rethink and look at T Gauge.
Mad Bodgit the dejected
:no: :no: Just spotted the Copyright Peter Robinson on that plan - if I plug his excellent book 'Railway Centres - Carlisle - Ian Allan 1986' perhaps I'll avoid a court appearance.
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Hi Jeff, good to see some pics and the Viaduct is getting further away, wonderful stuff mate.
I will have to get the Kingmoor Kid involved with my new shed layout Annes Hill MPD as it will be based around Carlisle Canal.
Bodgit
Bodgit - you just have to ask! Canal closed when I was 4 but I do remember a walk from school circa 1971 when we visted the old shed site and the coaling tower was still there. I've plenty of reference material on the Waverley.
Here's a start for you.
Canalkid. Ha ha ha
CARLISLE BUILDINGS Photo Restoration
in Scenery, Structures & Transport
Posted
It might have been through the arch but sadly can't remember, do remember it was a Greenall Whitley establishment by then though.
I was an avid spotter as a kid in early 70's when Carlisle's still had much of its old infrastructure, with a massive working marshalling yard, goods lines, trip workings, signal boxes, proper goods trains, diesel variety, wheeltappers etc etc. Electrification started a change but 40 years later there are still many of the remnants of the infrastructure around.
Building Carlisle in EM with such detail ranks as one of the biggest modelling projects I've ever seen - it certainly deserves a thread as the glimpses we've had so far are quite tantalising.
Simon