nnich

With respect- are you sure the cab would be correct for 30082? That loco is an ex Drummond K14 and I thought the Drummond locos had a more pronounced radius to the cab roof. All the samples look like original Adam's locos to me but I'm ready to be corrected Drummond locos also had a different boiler but of course boilers were changed between both sub classes interchangeably Norm

Thank you for that. Another digitrax loconet detector I was unaware for James: I can't see anything different in your setup to my own. I'm stumped and I thank you for all the help. As an update to this thread I have a Digikeijs detector on order as it seems well worth a try for a cost effective 16 detector piece of kit I'll report back in due course Norm

e Is there a specific image in that collection that I should be looking at James? That link takes me to a collection of unrelated images Many thanks Norm

Thank you James. at this point I am getting extremely frustrated with it !!!!! I notice you said in an earlier post "Loconet can also be an issue- I have mine split into two rings with LNRPXTRA in the middle- so that the DB 64's and BDL 168's are on one ring (along with throttles), and the boosters are on their own ring" Now my little test setup I've described in an earlier post does of course have a command station and throttle in it, albeit part of the Zephyr command station. I have now cut the computer interface via a second loconet cable to the Digitrax out of the picture as it's superfluous to the test It only leaves the bare minimum number of connections now When it's all plugged in I see the green LED on the board flash every two seconds or so, just as you described earlier and it's only necessary to flip the Zephys's Brake/Reverse lever to get the red LED to flash The test track has power whether or not the BDL168's PS14 is connected, but it's only with this power connected that any LED's on the BDL168 light up. Norm

Nigel Yes, I have tried the 'isolated from the rest of the railway' test with and without the ground connection. I think it is necessary but I thought I'd try without it just in case ....... Norm

James I do have an LT1 tester but no means of re-assembling a cable at present. However I feel we've tested this possibility by 1) Trying with multiple cables 2) The fact that the DS64/BD4 works with the same cable. I actually use an Acculite board for the connections, but I tested with an ohm meter and there is no break in connectivity between the Rail B (or A - I've tried both) input terminal on the Acculite board and pins 1 and A on the BDL168. Without this connected, as you rightly say, the loco on the test track won't move When I have the test setup and underway I see the green LED on the BDL168 board flashing every 2 seconds or so. The red will flash sporadically with no activity going on but I definitely see about 4 flashes in quick succession if I use the throttle to move the loco. This is what you mentioned I should expect. As another data point of interest if I unplug the PS14 transformer, the test LED's and the board LED's go out, but the BDL168 still transmits power to the detection section - Zone A section 1 in this case. I guess the current just flows through from the input (pin1 and A) and the Zone A section 1 output terminal) Once again - much appreciation of the suggestions from yourself and TWG, as well as the other folks who've all provided some great input. Norm

Thanks for that tip TWG Unfortunately that had no effect either. I wired it up in the standalone test mode I described earlier. Retested it to make sure nothing had changed. This time I omitted the LocoNet cable from the PR3 so it had no connection to the computer - strictly manual control via the throttle. Result again was all LED's lit for zone A (and B/C/D - I checked). Power was available at the test track and I was able to both see lights in a Hornby Pullman and drive a loco a few inches. Remember that at this point there was only one LocoNet cable in the entire system, between the command station and the BDL168 after that I hooked up the PR3 again , fired up JMRI PanelPro and flipped option switch 3. I set it and read it back with PanelPro to make sure it was properly set. Then I disconnected the PR3 again and repeated the first test. Unhappily the result was exactly the same I agree it's probably not the BDL168, especially as digitrax said it was tested before dispatch, but there has to be something not intuitively obvious going on here!!!! Previously I did some searching on the web and came across claims that all zones must be wired before it will work, but Digitrax tell me that's not the case It should work fine with only a single zone in use Norm Edit: Remembering what James told me I also just tried reversing the power (rail A/B) wires at the command station. Again no effect I'm afraid

Hi TWG I don't have the equipment to make one. Do you know a source I could buy one? I must confess to being a little skeptical that this is the issue because I've tried totally isolating the problem by connecting one section output of the BDL168 to a piece of test track In this setup my connections were as follows From the command station (Digitrax Zephyr at present) Rail A directly to one side of the test track Rail B to the Zone A input of the BDL168 Ground to the ground pin on the BDL168 From the BDL168 Zone A, first section to the other side of the test track Digitrax PS14 power supply to the BDL168 One loconet cable between the command station and the BDL168 One loconet cable between the command station and my Digitrax PR3 (computer interface) With this setup I have the exact same problem - all LED's on for Zone A and no power indication LED but the locomotive has power on the track It does occur to me that in this test setup the extra loconet cable to the PR3 is superfluous so I'll repeat the test without it and report back Recall also that when a DS64/BD4 is substituted in either scenario - on the layout, or the stand alone test track, all works as expected. I'm willing to buy a reversed cable and try that, but I don't really understand what it would achieve - I can't really imagine that a respected manufacturer such as Digitrax would not have seen this issue before, or document it !! Thank you again to everyone who is giving me suggestions - it is much appreciated Norm

James I am very grateful for your detailed reply. You have confirmed what Digitrax told me, which is that the indicators I see on the LT5 are normal for the 'Zone Power Off' condition. However power is on and trains will run in the associated sections fed from the BDL168. But a comment on your reply I did try wiring the BDL168 such that it was my only detector hardware, with a single Loconet connection. Well two actually - one from the Digitrax PR3 to the command station and one from the command station to the BDL168. That showed the exact same symptoms, although I note (and don't really understand) your comment about reversed track connections. I have it wired exactly as shown in the BDL168 manual for Direct Home wiring. Only one side of the track power actually goes via the BDL168, so I am unsure what the point of swapping the A and B connections would be.- especially with my test setup of only the single connection from a BDL168 to the command station via the LocoNet cable...... I also wired the ground connection between the BDL168 and the command station The loconet cable must be OK because I was able to directly replace one zone of the BDL168 with a DS64/BD4 using the same track connections and cable The DS64 LEDs showed track power Still baffled !!! Norm.

I am using RocRail peach james. I've never heard of loconet cable direction being important. When I substituted the DS64/BD4 combo for the Bdl168 first zone I used the exact same cable but I couldn't swear it was the same way round!! Can you tell me if what I got from digitrax is correct? That the 5th LED on the LT5 tester should always be lit when zone power is on and that the other 4 shouldn'f be lit unless the corresponding section is occupied. Remember all 4 of mine were lit all the time which Digitrax say is normal with default settings and zone power off Norm

Thank you for the reply peach james. I will study your diagram at length later. The problem I had with the BDL168 was that it didn't actually detect anything!! I wired it up exactly as specified in the manual and although it was indeed supplying power to my first four sections in zone A the included LT5 test LEDs were always lit but the all important 5th LED indicating zone power never lit up. I sent it back to digitrax , they returned it, I sent it back again and they sent me a new one. Still had the exact same problem. You mentioned the power supply in your post. I used a dedicated digitrax PS14 transformer which is what they recommend. Thinking I might have got the wiring messed up I substituted my normal ( see original post) combination DS64 and BD4 which worked perfectly of course!! Digitrax told me that with default settings which is what I was using they would expect the LT5 tester to show the 4 powered LEDs if zone power was off, but that it should show real readings AND the zone power LED if it was working as expected. It was on the same LocoNet network with the DS64s but I tried it standalone at one point with the same results If you can think of anything that I might have missed please let me know. At the moment the board is gathering dust while I look for another solution ... Norm

Good to know roundhouse. Please let us know how well it works when you get to use it. Would you be using it with model railway software and the loconet capability? Norm

TWG and Peter. Thank you both so much for your suggestions. Peter I neglected to say in my initial post that I don't use transponding- just basic current detection (and RocRail software). Because of that the new BXP 88 might be overkill TWG As you say, the Digikeijs product is very reasonably priced compared to it's Digitrax alternatives. I see that particular model of the DR4088LN is designed for use with LocoNet Do you have any personal experience with these products? It certainly looks as though it would be worth evaluating one Once again, thank you both. Two products I hadn't known about or considered. Norm

I have a fairly large layout under construction with almost 100 % Digitrax equipment to date - just a few loco decoders of other makes. For block detection I've been using DS64 Stationery decoders and DB4 detectors. For those not familiar with these two products, the DS64 is a stationery decoder which can operate 4 switches and has a loconet interface for computer software. The BD4 is a small board which allows one to set up detection in 4 different blocks and connect to another set of inputs on the DS64 to report the block detection back via Loconet. The two boards together thus allow both detection on 1-4 blocks and will operate 1-4 point motors Because I have more blocks than switches I tried using a Digitrax BDL168 which is a 16 block detector with the loconet interface built in. I have been having endless problems with this particular product (returned to Digitrax , replaced and still not working for me) and wondered if any one knows an alternative from another manufacturer. As long as it has a loconet interface it might fit my needs. My alternative is more DS64/BD4 combinations but its wasteful in that I won't need the stationery decoder part of the combination Thanks Norm

My set of four crimson cream Maunsell coaches making set 247 arrived today. I was surprised and pleased to see that the corridor first coach (S7212S Catalog R4797 is a model of low window stock (as previously seen in the Somerset and Dorset 3 pack in green). The rest of the set are the more common high window variants. I don't think this has been previously mentioned. I just checked on the well known retailers web sites and the corresponding SR Green set has the high window variant Norm

I just saw this thread would like to add that the HM app often crashes on my admittedly quite old iPad and has to be restarted. The other magazine apps run just fine on the same iPad Norm

Lots of good information coming out in this thread, but unfortunately no resolution for the OP Mike. Now I feel bad as it was I who suggested snipping out the (are they really capacitors or inductors Nick?) I would like to make sure we are getting our terminology correct - The components I'm talking about are the three small almost circular orange/yellow ones. One is soldered across the motor brushes and the other two from each brush to the motor body. Bachmann use a similar setup on the LBSC E4 and the half cab, and so far it is the E4 I have modified. However, as I reported, removing this component (I only removed the one across the motor brushes) transformed the running and it no longer runs on for several minutes after the throttle is reduced to zero. Nick: you seem to have the knowledge we were hoping for - can you tell us what the other two, more cylindrical components with the yellow/silver stripes are? - the ones that sit under the decoder position, running from PCB to motor. I thought they were the inductors as they appear to be connected from the power supply to the motor brushes Mike, I'm sorry if I've inadvertently made your position worse vis-a-via the half cab. However if snipping out the little yellow components didn't work, the cause must be elsewhere. I think you said you had no way to test the loco on DC, but as a last resort could you try some batteries wired in series and connected to a test track or rolling road? Even a single 9V battery should suffice. That would be a very on/off electrical supply but it would tell you if the loco runs smoothly in both directions and comes to a stop when the power is disconnected Norm

Mike I said I would not remove the capacitors on the half cab until I had tried the suggested Zimo MX622N decoder, but I could not resist a quick unscientific approach to a similar loco I have which had the same symptoms - a Bachmann E4 0-6-2T It has the same setup - three capacitors, one across the motor brushes and one from each brush to the motor body. I carefully snipped out just the cap across the brushes and re-tested the loco - result instant transformation!!! Comes to a stop as it should according to the programmed deceleration cv and runs very smoothly. I intend to carry on the experiment as I had planned because what is now interesting to know is whether the MX622N can code with a loco still fitted with the capacitor, whereas the Digitrax DZ126IN and perhaps the Zen ZN68 cannot. It's going to take me a while to report back as I have to mail order the Zimo decoder and I have some travel coming up, but I will do so as soon as I can. Norm

Mike and Nigel Thank you both for your informative replies (Mike.. I love the idea of a naughty siding . Perhaps we should try and source model 'Not to be Moved' boards ) I think what I am going to do is to take a scientific approach to the issue and acquire a Zimo MX622N and try it as a direct replacement for the Digitrax DZ126IN in both the half cab and the USA tank to see if I get better results with otherwise unchanged infrastructure. I will then try the DZ126IN again in the half-cab after removing the capacitors as recommended by DCC Concepts, but I won't do that before trying the Zimo decoder in that loco. The Zimo's cost about 34 US dollars over here, as compared to around 22 for the Digitrax, so ultimately I would certainly like to be able to get the DZ126IN's to work well I will report back with results good or bad Norm

Hi Mike Does the Bachmann half cab run well now, or have you still not found a suitable decoder? I note that you said that when you transferred the chip to the Jinty it transferred the problem with it. I am hoping someone will confirm that it's OK to remove the three capacitors from the half cab as I believe they are at the root of the problem. I don't own a Jinty so I don't know if it is set up the same way with the capacitors. As a matter of interest I use the same type (Digitrax DZ126IN 6 pin) in the Bachmann USA, with similar issues, but I have tried several examples of the same decoder so I don't believe it is necessarily the actual problem. The USA tank appears to have a capacitor mounted under the motor, it looks as though something is soldered across the motor brushes but without extreme dismantling it is difficult to be sure. I'm sorry to be somewhat rambling between different models (all Bachmann 0-6-0T configurations however), but the bottom line is that I believe certain decoders have more issues co-existing with onboard capacitors than others. Can anyone confirm that these models, Half cab, Jinty, USA tank and possibly many others do have onboard capacitors which are not integral with the blanking plug and have perhaps removed them? If we don't get an answer within a few days I will snip the wires to the 3 capacitors in the half cab and report back whether it solves the problem - I guess I could always resolder the wires if the experiment fails BTW, there was a thread asking for recommendations for USA tank decoders - it uses the same 6 pin arrangement http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/115500-model-rail-usa-tank-suitable-decoder/ There is some good information there on small 6 pin decoders Norm

As I recall approximately half of the class were either scrapped or sold into industrial use in the months following nationalization I believe some of the latter lasted into the late 50's early 60's. Full details of the class can be found in the book entitled 'The B4 Dock Tanks' by Peter Cooper. I don't have my copy to hand unfortunately but for anyone wanting one of these models I think you have almost unlimited opportunity to find an excuse to run one wherever your model railway is portraying To answer darren01 that loco was ex 30096 sold to Corrals and used to shunt Dibbles Wharf. It had previously been one of the pair used as the shunter at Winchester CityIt is now located at the Bluebell Railway Norm

As a postscript I looked inside the Bachmann half cab and it has what appear to be 3 capacitors - one across the motor brushes and one from each brush to the motor body. Does anyone know if its safe to remove these, or at least snip the wires? There are also 2 components that are green with yellow, purple and silver stripes. What are these? I have a feeling these components are related to the problems Mike and myself are seeing Norm

Mike, Just to add to this thread, I have been having similar problems with this loco, but I don't think that one fact is particularly relevant as I'm having similar issues with several locos, both Bachmann and Hornby all fitted with various Digitrax decoders - both 6 and 8 pin variants of Digitrax DZ125 and DZ126 chips. My loco's symptoms include uneven running - speeding up and then slowing down, only to repeat the cycle, and also the running on as you describe where it will not actually come to a standstill for many minutes after the throttle is closed. I have done some research and uncovered a hint that may be helpful If your decoder has support for Back EMF, then try disabling it. On Digitrax decoders this is done via the CV54/55/56 settings I have seen it stated that Bachmann locos in particular are susceptible to mismatches between any onboard capacitors and Back EMF on the decoder. You can either disable BEMF or remove any capacitors - note that in some of the newer locos the capacitor is incorporated into the blanking plug and is thus removed anyway when you fit a decoder Other folks have made useful suggestions, especially just trying another decoder of maybe a different make. Also the tip on disabling analog mode Can any of our more learned electronic experts shed any light on whether these are truly valid points, and in my case, suggest a starting point for the CV54/55/56 settings on digitrax decoders? For both Mike and myself I'd be interested to hear what decoder people recommend for the Bachmann half cab Norm

What RFS says is very true, but it's worth mentioning that RocRail can also profile individual locos. For example I have several hidden loops where trains can disappear offscene. As an example let's assume that the first electrically isolated (on one side only) section is 9 feet long. I wire it as 2 electrical sections through a BD4 or BDL168, the first 8 feet long and the second about 6-12 inches long. The 'enter' sensor trips when the leading loco or power car enters the 8 foot section. At this point RocRail can profile the loco to reduce speed to vMin as it exits the first section and stop completely when it enters the second short section triggering the 'in' event. RocRail profiles and stores the commands to smoothtly reduce speed from the time (or adjustable delay) that it triggers the 'enter' event to the time it triggers the 'in' event at the second short section. As I said in the first post you can also just use a single (in this example - 8-9 foot section/block) and have a similar profile reduce speed by the time it reaches the end of the electrical section - in this case entering the block is configured to trigger a combined 'enterin' event and you can set a delay for RocRail to trigger in 'in' event which is probably the point at which the train should stop. Meantime it can be reducing speed smoothly triggered by the 'enter' event. If Graham would like more info on this - search for 'BBT' in the RocRail documentation (BBT is Block Brake Timer) It does get confusing because each system doesn't really mean the exact same thing by 'Block' Graham has digitrax equipment and has the choice to use either DS64/BD4 combinations to operate up to 4 switches and 4 detection(electrical) sections, or a BDL168 for detection of up to 16 electrical sections - which would drive 8 of these 2 sensor blocks for RocRail. Don't get me wrong I do think RR&Co is the most feature rich system, although I found the bronze version severely lacking when I did my research. I would need the gold version to achieve what I would want. Here in the USA a BDL168 can be purchased on eBay for roughly 120 US dollars - about a 100 UK pounds at present I am talking only detection by individual electrically isolated sections, but I think all the various software choices can also be configured to respond to events triggered by magnets, LED detection, etc and these may provide cheaper alternatives for sensors Norm

I'm in that very same boat Graham and am following this thread with interest. I have Digitrax equipment and my layout is being built now. I evaluated RRr&Co, RocRail and JMRI and have just decided that RocRail will do all I want. RR&Co definitely would be the way to go if you had the funds and it does have both excellent documentation and thanks to Ruud Baier, comprehensive online tutorials. JMRI is good also but very complex (unnecessarily so IMO) to use. That leaves RocRail which to me strikes a good balance. The documentation is not great but it is quite comprehensive and there is a user forum to answer newbie questions What I liked most about RocRail is its ability to realistically slow a train in smooth steps as it runs into a block section. It works on the principle of having several insulated sections per train block so that the 'enter' action can be separated from the 'in' event where you probably want the train to stop. Alternatively you can trigger a combined enterin event and the software allows a fixed time interval between the two. This would also stop a train realistically but without the precision mentioned by others above. All three systems follow the same basic principle. At the very simplest conceptual view one defines blocks, routes between the blocks and then schedules using those routes. I'd suggest you spend some pleasurable time watching Ruud Baiers online Traincontroller videos on YouTube to see all the basic principles covered by all the above systems. Just search 'Traincontroller' and 'Ruud' to find them. I'm finding that RocRail allows me to do a lot of what the very comprehensive RR&Co Traincontroller software does at minimal cost. It's actually free but I did make the requested donation Hope this helps Norm