RikkiGTR

May be hard to see but I've marked on the plan where I have feeds for the fiddle yard.

Truth be told it may be an issue with under-gauge wire used for the main bus - I got it from Amazon and it is Chinese, it does feel quite flimsy and is probably not 32/0.2, so I'm going to remove the entire bus and replace it with much heavier wire and see if that sorts out the issue.

7 hours ago, Andymsa said:

The poor op must be getting really confused by all the tech talk of specifications…

Correct 😬

My images are too big to upload from my phone but hopefully I can describe it well enough - 

Track is N Gauge, all Peco. 

Fiddle yard is a basic 8-track (4 up and 4 down line) configuration. The only part of the layout that uses set track points (the rest is code 55 finescale). 
I have droppers on each track before they enter the fiddle yard from either side and one on each fiddle yard track as well. So 12 droppers covering the fiddle yard (or 24 if you want to count red and black individually). 

5 hours ago, Dungrange said:

What is the current output from your command station and how many locomotives / accessories are you running when this power drop is occurring?

 

My first thought is that it's a problem with voltage drop due to too much resistance in the wiring.

Power output to track is 3.5 amps, I'm running maximum 3 locos when this happens - I have 2 mainlines that can circulate (and go through the fiddle yards) whilst another train moves around the branch line and/or sidings. 

1 hour ago, GrumpyPenguin said:

Before you start adding boosters double check the integrity of your bus &/or wiring.

 

Easy enough to do using a simple multimeter/voltmeter & a "load" such as a 12v 21w indicator bulb.

 

Connect the bulb (rememberb that it will get hot) in parellel with the meter (set to, IIRC AC volts 25v + setting)**.

 

Check & note the voltage as close as you can to the output of your controller, keep taking readings round the layout - that will pinpoint any defective joints/connections. If all proves well, then look at the possibility of a heavier bus to the far side of the layout.

 

** Forget the "can't measure DCC voltage with a basic multimeter" guys, what you are looking for is consistant readings with a load (you can also forget the "short out the track with a coin" method too - the controller will probably trip before any dry joint heats up).

I don't understand... any of that. 

Well, it doesn't sound too complicated, truth be told. I don't have a multimeter/voltmeter so I obviously need to acquire one. Which would be best for the task at hand? 

Hey guys and gals,

On running my layout, all trains will slow down when they go through my fiddle yard tracks. I have definitely soldered the power bus correctly to each track, and all wires are also connected properly. 
 

My layout is 8x10ft in 2mm scale, with quite a lot of track and many many droppers. I’m using a Gaugemaster Prodigy Advanced DCC control system. The power “begins” at the opposite side of the layout to my fiddle yard, although it is a complete circuit insofar as the main bus wire is concerned (which is 32/02 wire). 
 

If it were a single loco I’d simply look at that, but all locos suffer a noticeable drop off in speed when they reach the fiddle yard. Should I be adding a power booster, and if so which one? I don’t actually know anything about them. 

A little video I took a few days ago of things running on the layout. 

I used an emery board for in between the point blades and stock rails (the small part where they meet). I did this after applying some IPA with a cotton bud. 
 

Seems to have done the trick, as all my locos run over the points perfectly now. Aside from a single loco (a brand new Class 58) which stops dead on all siding points, yet runs around the mainline loops, pulling a rake of carriages without any issue at all.  

The points that I have painted with rust are now quite bad in terms of electrical connection.

I need a way to clean the rust off the top of the rails, and in particular around the point blades which I believe is where the worst issues are. I'm wondering if I could use my Dremel to "buff" these areas, or is there a better solution? 

Re-laid the station throat as described in previous post, and set about getting some ballast down on the branch line to test out my ability in that department. Looking good so far.

Another minor change being made - this may have been recommended here or on the N Gauge forum so I take no credit for it.

I've discovered that when running trains on the anti-clockwise line I need a way to get to the central avoiding line from there without fouling the clockwise line, so a couple more curved points have been ordered to remedy this.

I was told about this when planning the layout but it's only in practice that I realised how important it is.

1 hour ago, PaulCheffus said:

Hi

 

Don’t bother. This advice is generally for OO points. I have sixty unmodified Peco code 55 N gauge points on my layout and have not had any issues in the last twenty years.

 

Cheers

 

Paul

Yeah I really didn’t fancy it at this point, they seem to be working fine even if they are manually operated for now. 

32 minutes ago, Siberian Snooper said:

One thing I would do, before fitting, is to solder on lengths of wire to each motor of around 6 inches/150mm and use connection blocks to join them to the main cabling. This saves soldering upside down, helps fault finding and allows easier changing out faulty units.

 

 

Yep! Something I had planned to do anyway was do any soldering “above ground” before fitting the motors underneath the base boards. 

43 minutes ago, TomCrewe said:

I hope your points are dcc ready? or you may have to take them all up again to mod them!

Yes I’ve seen a few things about this, but the points seem to be working fine here with no mods unless it’s something that will happen with continued DCC use? 
 

Only issue I’ve noticed so far is when I’ve accidentally run a loco over a point that’s set the wrong way - I get an overload. What else will happen? 

After your comments earlier on my thread, I followed the trail back here and had a good read through the thread. Fascinating layout with some amazing electrickery, will be following keenly. 

@Siberian Snooper the “points on the bridge” will not actually be an issue as only the front single line will be a girder bridge - the back mainline will run over another embankment with perhaps a small water outlet below it, so easy enough to disguise the motors. 
 

@BluenGreyAnorak as much as this task is daunting, it’s also extremely exciting as well. I’m not remotely put off by the amount of work ahead of me to realise my ambitions with this layout, and I’ve no doubt that once I start I’ll get my head around it. I’ve just been unsure *where* to start. Your control systems look incredible though, and it’s a lot of inspiration for me. 

@ITG yes the entire layout is laid, I ensured there was a hole drilled for each point motor pin as I went around laying the track. I’m unable to flip the boards up though so I will be fixing them in situ. 

@Jeremy Cumberland this is a closer representation of what the layout is now. Only remaining change I haven't shown is the double slip at the station throat (left hand side), which I have replace with a couple of sets of regular left and right hand points (pictured) for less complex wiring. I could do it easily when laying the track, but couldn't replicate that in scarm 😅

Ironically the 4 points at the top right is where I began track laying, so it makes sense to begin point motor wiring there as well. 

All your points (no pun intended) are much appreciated, taken on board, and are certainly extremely helpful. Thank you! 

PS - the fiddle yard has 8 tracks, not 6 as depicted in the track plan. 

This is the track plan, more or less. 
the “dock/scrap yard” is a different shape on the layout but same point composition. 
And I’ve lengthened the 2 lower sidings where it says “industry or maintenance” and added a runaround loop. 
 

I’ll try to put together a fully up to date track plan later on Scarm, but this is accurate enough as it is. 

DCC control of points seems just as daunting (even more so, truth be told) than DC control. The choice before me is so vast I once again don't even know where to start.

@Nigelcliffe another vote for DCC control of points. 

I do have a good Android tablet here that’s largely going to waste, it could be better served as a control system for the railway. Certainly worth looking into. 

@ITG perhaps I’ll look into that then, if it simplifies anything for me it’s worth at least investigating. 

@ITG yes my layout is DCC but I always planned to have analogue points. I like the idea of toggling little switches and watching points change on command. 
 

Truth be told I’ve never put much thought into DCC control of points. And it seems quite a faff to have to type in addresses for those as well as locos, especially on my Prodigy Advanced controller. 

@Brian that link is also extremely helpful as well, thank you again 🙏 

I’ll have a good read through it later. 

@cliff park that does help quite a bit, I certainly need to be able to visualise it before I get cracking. 
 

I did wire up the DCC bus without any issues, but the points aren’t just “red to front and black to back” so it’s a bit more daunting 😅

2 minutes ago, Chris M said:

I would either go to your local club or go to a few exhibitions and ask the question. There are no any different approaches all of which are valid. I always use a diode matrix and a flippin big CDU. Unfortunately I couldn’t write about all the options here.

Unfortunately I live in Northern Ireland, and both clubs and exhibitions are almost unheard of. I know there’s no clubs anywhere near me in Coleraine, and with work and family commitments, travelling up and down to (for example) Belfast wouldn’t be feasible. 
 

I’m largely on my own in this, and relying on what I can find online. 

As titled, approximately 45 points to wire up on my layout now and I don’t know where to start. 
 

I am using solenoids (Peco PL-10), plus side-mounted ones for the fiddle yard. 
I have a Gaugemaster CDU and a ton of passing contact switches, plus loads of wire. 
 

Do I break the layout up into multiple sections (banks of points)? 
Should I run another power bus around the layout from the CDU for the points? 
Should I have more than 1 CDU? 
Do I build control panel(s) first then run wires from the point motors to them, or wire the motors first and create control panels after? 
 

Any videos I find only show how to wire up a single point, but I already know how to do that - they don’t continue on wiring more into a control panel. I basically need a “start to finish” tutorial on how to wire up many many more points.
Can anyone point me in the right direction? 

@Davexoc im using solenoids (Peco PL-10 I believe) for the visible layout, and side-mounted point motors for the fiddle yard since there’s no need to hide them. 
I have all the solenoids and passing contact switches here since I originally bought all the equipment for my first attempt 11 years ago. 
 

I did wire one up back then just to see if it would work (which it did), but this layout whilst being slightly smaller has sooo many more points. 
I have a Gaugemaster CDU as well, but I read somewhere they only control 4 points. Although with your comment I assume that just meant “at a time”. 
 

I’ll go have a look through the Power, Control & DCC section as you recommend. I just don’t know where to start.