Star-rider

Will, that is indeed useful and very timely as I have had a second-hand Lima Siphon turn up in the post this morning that is intended to be the “van” in the formation that I have been describing elsewhere. I was going to try to find out over the next few days what the Lima model most accurately represents for a quick re-number and it seems that you have just done all of my homework for me! Unfortunately that is where the good news for me stops, the cut-off date that I have been trying to work with is the end of the 1930’s so both of the vehicles with the “correct” planking are outside my time frame and I think I will have to number it as a vehicle from lot number 1578 and live with the planking issue. I’ve also probably jumped the gun with the bogies having just ordered some 7’ SRMW / Shapeways items. My understanding is that some of the Siphon Gs were mounted on these and to my eye it looked like 7’ under the one at Dicot (here: https://didcotrailwaycentre.org.uk/article.php/146/no-2796-collett-siphon-g ) so hopefully it will match up with something from lot 1578. On livery, I am guessing that lot 1441 would have been out-shopped with GW lettering and all of the subsequent lots with the roundel? Best of luck with your project. Pete.

Product : Quantity : Price 2808: LNER 60 FT TRUSS RODS (TURNBUCKLE) (OO GAUGE) : 1 : 5.70 https://www.dartcastings.co.uk/mjt.php#CarriageComponents-Underframes&Fittings Depending on the length of coach you are building you may want to shorten them a little. Good luck with your build. Pete.

Well, I'm somewhere near finished now - thank you again to those that offered advice and suggestions. A Frogmore kit was used with a Comet chassis, the trussing came from MJT in the end. A Comet roof seemed to fit reasonably well, it has been sat on SRMW / Shapeways fishbelly bogies and I have painted it up in all-over brown as per the image I saw in the Russell appendix. It will be in the work tray for a day or so yet, the enamel paint in my box that was masquerading as matt black when applied to the corridor connectors turned out to be shinier than the satin that I used on the underframe and the small guard's step has broken free and made a run for it for the umpteenth time... I need to give it a gentle run through some pointwork to check everything is OK as I am concened that the trussing may foul the bogie movement (the MJT etch is probably over length for this coach). It all seems OK when it is upside down, but hopefully that is not how it is going to be when in service.

Yes, I may get in touch wil Allen, I have made he odd purchase from him in the past and he has always been helpful. As you say, the sides and ends are the main fight.

That does sound a heafty price for a book or document, but as with everything an item's true value is what someone is prepared to pay for it! It would probably be OTT for my needs (as I say I am looking for credible rather than accurate) but I can see that it would have a value to an enthusiast more serious on the subject than myself. Unfortunately it is the same with the SRMW/Shapeways Siphon J. I had noted it when searching for 3D printed bogies but the price of it is beyond what I am prepared to reach to at the moment (about £120.00 for body, roof, chassis and bogies). I may go that way as a last resort, but there are other vehicles in this formation to buy and get on with yet so I might just keep looking around and hope that something else turns up over the next couple of months. The ideal solution would be for somone to revive the Blacksmith range which is currently locked up with Coopercraft but that would take time. I missed out on a built Blacksmith one on Ebay by a pound over my maximum bid a couple of weeks ago and have since regretted not going for it more aggresively. The thought of having a first attempt at scratchbuilding has crossed my mind - I even downloaded a drawing, but I think I would need fo find a source of correctly embossed pastic sheet for the planking, I doubt that I would have the patience or skill to scrible something myself. Pete.

The time you have taken to look into this is appeciated. My one and only source has been the WS Beckett book which I have heard does contain some errors, but it is all I have to work with. I'm reluctant to copy a page as I would prefer to respect the autor's copyright but I've extracted the relevant bits in the hope that is OK. A note has been made of the model that I am intending to put into service, as usual any constructive comment is happily accepted. Shrewsbury-Paddington.pdf

Thanks, I am slightly familiar with it, I wish there was a similar web site of such quality for the line beyond Handsworth. Last time I was browsing the site I came across a special service consisting of a Grange hauling thirty-odd conflats and containers from the Vono factory near Tipton out towards the east coast. With it's bespoke head board it would make an interesting train, I rather fancy a stab at that in a reduced way - but that's a whole other discussion. Pete.

It's not that I in any way doubted you, but I just took a look in the box marked "kits that I built when I still had hair and need re-working one day" to see what was there. It turns out that they were a Monster and a Python - I suppose that neither are things that that you would want roaming loose in your bedroom in the dark hence my confusion. Pete.

As self-appointed judge in this enquiry, after gathering the evidence, opinions and conjecture it seems that the definition of a van must be: 1] A sizeable bogie vehicle 2] Likely to be gangwayed if positioned in the middle of the train 3] Would have no passenger accommodation 4] Would not necessarily have guard accommodation but may have it if the vehicle deployed was so furnished. 5] Would not necessarily have a facility for braking the train, but may have it if the vehicle deployed was so furnished. 6] Could be identical to another specified vehicle in the train e.g. a full brake or Siphon even though not noted as such. The wonderful thing is that as it is so vague it is going to be hard for anyone to tell me what I have finally chosen is wrong. Unless of course someone replies “I have a photo of the van on the 21:50 Shrewsbury to Paddington, it carried the running number 1234 and was built to diagram M99 at the inception of the GWR and is still running on that service today. In fact I had tea in there this afternoon with the guard and the Blonde One from ABBA, we ate rusks cooked on the back of the fireman’s shovel”. Whilst that would be a definitive answer it would inevitably lead on to further problems. No one makes a kit of an M99 or worse still someone did, but it is now part of the Coopercraft range. There is a specialist supplier based in Goole who produces transfers but only in Gauge One and for the period around 1990 when it briefly carried Railfrieght Petroleum Sector livery. But would this dishearten me? No. Let’s get philosophical for a moment; someone once asked “if a tree falls in the forest and there is no one to hear it, does it make a sound?” The truth is that as best as I can remember there are only three people who have ever ventured into my loft to look at my model railway and they would not know a Siphon from a sink plunger so I can really get away with anything. The only problem is that I am in the metaphorical forest and if there is a tree falling I want to hear it so that I can run away if necessary. The point is that I want to reasonably satisfy myself, nothing more. The preceding vehicle is noted as a Siphon G and I have an outside framed Mainline model to hand for which some alternative 3D printed bogies are due to turn up tomorrow from SRMW / Shapeways. My current thinking is that for my “van” I could relatively cheaply obtain a Lima inside framed Siphon G, it would mean ordering yet another set of bogies, but at least it would offer some further variety to the train. If anyone wants to free me from my delusions please shout up. Only the gentlest application of Rule One is going to be required, after all I am not aiming to make an accurate model of an historic service, merely to put together an interesting train that may credibly have been seen somewhere around the West Midlands in the 1930’s (and not be more than 7 coaches long ‘cos it won’t fit in my station). In fact if the Van becomes troublesome it could just disappear – you know what I am saying… As of this morning that is the solution. It is perhaps not perfect but there again nothing ever is - the Blonde One from ABBA is now 70 and your rusk has an after-taste of coal dust. Stay safe. Pete.

Thanks for engaging with this. It is part of the 21:50 Shrewsbury to Paddington service. It is noted that the "van" had previously worked the 13:18 Birkenhead to Shrewsbury. Pete.

This one has been to sleep for a bit longer than it should again. Once again, my thanks to those that have contributed their suggestions etc. I thought I should drop a note on how it ended up in case anyone else comes across this thread in the future when having a similar problem. In the absence of anything else coming to light I purchased an MJT (LNER?) roof extrusion to see what it would look like. The results are in the photo below which for my standards in now “finished”, as @exet1095 has noted it is a little high but to my eyes at least not too noticeable. If I had known the solution lay here I would perhaps have fitted the roof and filled it before doing my mock panelling on the ends – there’s no way that I am going to make a job of cramming Milliput in there now and making any sort job of filing it back with all of the Microstrip and end fittings in place. I’m just pleased that at least I have something to represent a 70’ brake composite which is a rare beast in model form at the moment. Now to find a Siphon J from somewhere…

Chris, If nothing else your confusion gives me some comfort! I do have a "monster" and "giant" that I made up from kits some years ago that are doing nothing important, I could perhaps slot one of those in as the formation build progresses - at aleast until the Swindon Police issue a summons for my arrest for malicious use of non-gangwayed vehicles. Pete.

Thanks for the link to the previous discussion, it seems that I am not the first person to feel unclear! I thought I had skimmed this branch of the forum thouroughly before opening my mouth, it had not hit me that the answers may be somewhere else on RM Web. A re-reading of what was in the previous discussion is in order, there are lots of grains of information in there, but a definitive answer has not jumped out at me. My conclusion at the moment is that it is probably going to be a gangwayed bogie vehicle without passenger accommodation - I'll see what's about... Pete.

Sorry if this is s primary school question (but I learn things by asking questions when I can’t find out for myself) - could anyone help me with a definition of “van” in a train formation please? I’m using the Beckett book to get together some credible if not authentic train formations and as I interpret page 77 I believe the portion arriving in Wolverhampton from Shrewsbury would be: 1] Siphon G 2] Van 3] Full brake (non-corridor) 4] Siphon J 5] Brake Composite 70 6] Brake Third Corridor 7] Full Brake Could anyone tell me what the “van” is likely to be – a suggestion of a suitable diagram reference may avoid my follow-up question Thanks.

Mike, as ever, your response is appreciated. Stafford Road Model Works offer a 3D printed 9' fishbelly via Shapeways so I'll get the knife into the slot in the piggy bank and go for those. They are probably not the cheapest option but I have used thier prints before and they have always worked out for me. I particularly like the integral NEM socket and the fact that they will take Bachmann or Hornby wheels which are easy to obtain. Like the toplight brake compo I started earlier in the year (still unfinished ) I will fit a Wizard / Comet LNER Gresley turnbuckle etch as this will probably be as close as I could get. I was aware of the preserved example at Didcot but the one photo I tuned up did not enlighten me. In more normal times I may have have a ride down there to see if there was a chance of viewing but with the various Covid restrictions in place (with more to follow?) and the fact that it seems to be stored with no plans for resoration means that planning a trip is difficult. Thanks again. Pete.

This is an old thread I know, but it seems sensible to throw out my question here for continuity... I'm about to embark on a Frogmore K36 and am striggling a bit with its underwear - Russell appdx. 2 shows a picture of one of the vehicles in all over brown but am I seeing the queenpost / turnbuckle type underframe rather than angled trusses? Also, the bogies are (at least to my inexpereinced eye) indistinct - could those be 9' fishbelly type? @Coachbogie's nice model pictured in this thread looks as if it is on American types, but I am fully aware that these things often got swapped round over the life of the coach. Usual thing - I'm not averse to paying for my own reference material but it is knowing where to look. Thanks in anticipation. Pete.

Excellent, thank you. I'll give that a go.

Thanks, Any information could be of value. I suspect that I won't easily get my hands on a Haye Vac-formed unit now so I feel another bodge comming on...

The H25 was painted up whilst I was waiting for the donor coach for the bogies and HMRC Pressfix transfers applied. Disaster then struck when I applied some varnish to the coach side as the paint started to run before my eyes and ended up with an orange peel texture. I’m guessing my mistake was applying Humbrol acrylic satin varnish from an aerosol to the Railmatch paint. I was so certain it was what I had been using before, but a rummage in the bin for the old can revealed that I had previously been using Humbrol enamel varnish. Lesson learned… The paint was stripped off for a second time and the transfers reapplied. My bill for spray paint has now exceeded Banksy’s. When renewing the glazing I was uncertain about the type of glass that would have been used in the Kitchen / Pantry area. Some images of catering coaches in Russell Appendix Two suggest an etched appearance, to the best of my recollection the Hornby model that my H25 is to replace had an almost “white” glazing. In the pack of Fox lining transfers that I had just been using was some plastic sheeting intended to protect the transfers from damage. I decided that it looked a good prospect for obscure glazing so have used a bit to see how it looks. The second-hand Airfix suburban B turned up and was stripped of its bogies in very short order. I also added some wire to represent tie rods as suggested by Coach Bogie (thanks for the reminder!) The attached photo shows the H25 almost done, the drooping coupling has now been dealt with, but I have just noticed the missing footboard on the right hand end, so still a little job to do. What are people’s thoughts on representing obscure glazing? Oh, I did manage to get the E155 done as well, although I need to look again at the lie of the roof tanks – Previously I used etched whitemetal plain or riveted tanks from 247 Developments but they no longer list them. I’ve not yet got the knack of bending Plastikard to a curve and getting it to stay down – suggestions gratefully appreciated. Pete.

Sorry guys, but the last few posts have lost me a little - is it that some builders are having problems with the wheels making contact with the underside of the coach floor? I've always gone for metal wheels and never had a problem, having said that I am always running in plastic bogies (in the instance of the E117, they are 3D printed). (When I converted to DCC a few years ago I did have a lot of problems with shorting as the DCC system is perhaps a little over-sensitve for reasons of self preservation. The only solution to this in the end was upgrading all my pointwork to electrofrogs - OK you can do something by switching rolling stock wheels to plastic, but one will never be able to do that with a loco). THe E117 is looking a little better now that she has started to put some clothes on and the next job is the roof. I had purchased a length of the Comet aluminium extrusion in the hope that I could use that, but it is not sitting right. Does anyone know what type of roof would have been supplied with the Haye kit and if it or something similar is still available? Thanks, Pete.

Thanks: I am unclear about that, my assumption was the two Siphons would have made it to Shrewsbury / Wellington but it was their next working that they may not be required for? Even knocking those two off it would probably still be too long for me as the shorter "brown" vehicles are balanced back out by the two seventy footers.

Thanks - Yep, missed that - but otherwise my thought process is sound? Pete.

Cambridge Custom Transfers offer a sheet of decals for BR ex-GWR conflats (sheet BL101). I don't know for certain and I may be making a leap of faith, but I would guess that they have produced transfers to the correct style of lettering, I know the propriotor's interest is in BR days . Might be worth enquiring? Pete.

I’ve referenced this publication exclusively (possibly a mistake!) when deciding on train formations for my own model railway and I was at some point going to pitch a thread on it (and may still do so if the current Covid lock-down continues). As this has been posted up though, it seems as good a time as any to ask if I am interpreting the information correctly, hopefully someone will step in and reassure or point out my delusions. Wolverhampton is being used as a “benchmark” for the trains I am putting together. Taking the extract already posted* I have disregarded any vehicle “from” anywhere north of Wolverhampton and then also struck through anything “to” south of Wolverhampton as per the following: My conclusion is that the following formation would have left Wolverhampton: Siphon / Siphon / Full brake / Siphon G / Siphon G / BCK 70 / Full brake / TK / CK 70 / Full brake / Van This 11 vehicle train would not be one that I would pursue as it is simply too long for the space available to me; I have set myself a limit of 6 pushing to 7 vehicles, but the Becket book still offers plenty of suitably sized and interesting formations to work with. *The rights of the author and publisher are acknowledged. I’m confident the sharing of this brief extract to a target market would be more likely to increase sales of the book than put off people from buying it. If the copyright holders do want to pursue me legally, my name is Boris Johnson and I live at 10 Downing Street, London. SW1A 2AA.

I'm sorry it was, I have now edited. (The problem is that the 8 and 9 on my keyboard are so damn close together, if the 8 was between 3 and 4 it would never have happened).