Woodcock29

50 minutes ago, Barry Ten said:

 

They look a lot like Alco PA1s to me.

A lot of South Australian modellers converted PA1s to 900s in previous times. There was a brass Korean model made back in the 1980s but this is the first plastic bodied model.

7 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Thanks for all the comments/advice/experiences regarding that 47XX.

 

I'll probably go down the PDK route; I can't see myself hacking about at a lump of sold brass!

Tony

Going down the PDK chassis route for the 47xx is probably the way to go.

However, it is quite possible to fit modern gearboxes to the solid brass chassis. Although perhaps lacking in detail from my experience the Cotswold milled brass chassis are very true and add a lot of weight low down.

I built a Cotswold LNER F1 (ex GC) quite some years ago and because it was so heavy (the body in particular) it struggled with most motors I tried. In the end I got the files out and opened up the gear wheel slot so it would take a Portescap gearbox - now it runs like a dream! I have a spare chassis for one of these and will be using it in my Graeme King resin D7 as the driving wheelbase is the same and I also have a Cotswold Q2 to build sometime again with the solid brass milled chassis.

Andrew 

3 hours ago, great northern said:

A couple of images to show what Peter was doing on Sunday, and which I forgot about till just now. Both of us had come to the conclusion that three of them looked a bit too similar, and that all could benefit from some extra weathering. here's the result.

Being in a generous mood, I shall give you a third image, featuring the Claud again. I've been meaning for some time to do an image with a blue sky which hasn't been altered in any way from what the camera saw. Here it is.

Far too much colour saturation for my liking, but I'd appreciate your views. The photo was taken on a day with good natural light.

Gilbert although I like the view, the saturation level is too high for an English sky in my opinion. If it could be lightened gradually to the horizon it would be better but still more like an Aussie sky.

14 minutes ago, gr.king said:

O2s:  First impressions only from the images above are that the Nu-Cast and PDK examples do a more convincing job of portraying the lower running plate of the part 1 and part 2 locos. The Heljan s-curves in the running plate are sharper and make the central section of the running plate still appear higher. And why does the only example of the Heljan "O2/1" appear with the imperfect rendition of the later GS cab, which we've seen before.  Where's the much more relevant sample of a model with the promised new "high-eaves" round-top, small-specatcles, original GN cab?

 

I do agree that I've had no running trouble with my own altered and "sorted" Heljan O2 - the basics of it have been reliable.

I think there is a full height GN cab version coming. I'm hoping I can actually buy spare parts as we could with the first round of O2s. I need a full height cab and the lower centre type footplate to rebuild a second-hand first round version that I was offered very cheaply. I don't think they are going to revise the incorrect expansion link arrangement as that would have been shown as I understand the very malleable valve gear material has been replaced with something far more robust in nature and I'm assuming that is what we're seeing on these pre-production models?

Tony - pair of the the expansion links I got from you recently will be used on this second-hand first release model I have stashed away.

As mentioned above a wide range of Bachmann spares are available via a dedicated Bachmann spares website. I recently purchased a range of J11 tender underframes and wheels and other bits and pieces from LNER models for my kit-bashing projects.  At a quick glance a C1 tender (GN Ivatt B type tender) in LNER lined green would be £20 for the body and £16 for the black frames lined in red with wheels. Given its painted that's pretty good value in my book - £36 in total. You'd need to add your own vacuum pipe!

Andrew

By gently squeezing the coal rails together the coal and coal rails can be lifted out of the bunker. This exposes a screw at the base of the rear of the cab in the bunker. After removing the screw the rear of the cab can be lifted upwards and the front gently released from under the rear of the tank tops where the lugs on the cab front fit.  Hope this makes sense - its very easy - might just need to push the sides of the cab front in a bit as you do this.  Great for fitting crew.

I also removed the glazing from the front and side windows (they didn't seem to be glued and simply pushed inwards) -  then I carefully painted the edges black to reduce the prismatic effects - I didn't refit the rear side windows. I didn't try to remove the rear spectacle windows as these are more securely fitted.

Andrew

I have now replaced the chimney on my A5 with a PDK turned brass O4 chimney. I've also removed the moulded smokebox door handle and replaced the fitted express headcode lamps with lamp irons. I'm yet to modify the front tension lock coupling but that will be undertaken. I'm currently contemplating replacing the moulded plastic coal rails with etched brass coal rails that happen to have. The vacuum pipes have been bent so they are swayed across as per the prototype.

Repainting the smokebox was easy as the boiler unit can be removed from the rest of the body after the cab top is removed. Care needs to be taken in extracting the metal boiler handrails from the front of the tanks during this process. So its easy to mask the rest of the boiler and just spray the smokebox once I had completed the work.

For comparison:

11 hours ago, 60526 said:

Any idea who sells the oval brass buffers?

Brassmasters make a nickel silver etch of oval buffer heads designed to be fitted to round heads. You file the round head flat and solder the overlay on. There are two sizes of oval heads designed to be fitted to 16mm diameter or 13mm heads unfortunately I think the GC oval heads are somewhere in between the two sixes but it's possible to file the larger ones down down to size. I'll be fitting mine to 14mm Maygib GC  buffers obtsined from Branchlines.

There are 40 of the larger heads and 24 of the small heads - so more than enough to last most 4mm scale modellers a long time. I got mine from the bits and Bob's in a deceased estate a few years ago hete in Oz.

1 hour ago, St Enodoc said:

Good reasons to leave the chassis alone, Andrew - it's set up precisely for the motor/gears combination shown.

John

I suppose it depends on whether you like open frame motors and old Romford gears? Certainly not my preference. It's also worth noting that these kits are extremely heavy. The F1 certainly is and didn't ever run well with an open frame motor that I fitted when first built in the mid 90s. The Portescap was probably fitted 15 years ago maybe.

Andrew

2 hours ago, LNER4479 said:

On the subject of good and bad kits, this was passed to me a few days ago.

 

How do you rate my chances?

Graham - I'd suggest later Romfords or Markits driving wheels, different motor and a gearbox. You'd need to file/mill out the slot for the gearbox but as Mike said these milled brass chassis blocks run well. 

I fitted a Portescap into an ex GC F1 and have a Q2 to build. I've also got a spare F1 chassis I've partly prepared to fit one of GK's D7s.

Andrew

I've just been examining it and note the chimney appears to be part of the smokebox/boiler moulding so it will need to be cut off and cleaned up. The chimney on the model is 6.6mm tall, so 1'8"compared with the height of 1'9" quoted in Yeadon. The top rim appears to be rather flat - not tall enough to truly represent the original Robinson chimney in my view. I'll be fitting a brass LNER O4 chimney from PDK. This is 1'5" tall and has a pretty good profile.

The smokebox front is a separate moulding and seems to be slightly bigger in diameter than the smokebox - it's probably not that noticeable.

Just received my 5024 this morning here in Adelaide. Its only had a few laps so far but seems to be smooth and quiet. There is slight bend in footplate upwards each side of the side tanks. But if you didn't know it's there you probably wouldn't notice.

Haven't measured height of chimney yet (I'm currently out) but I'm planning on replacing it as its too tall for my period. Its been modelled as the original Robinson GC shape and height which were all replaced by the LNER from at least 1930 onwards, firstly by a plant pot style then the LNER cast version similar but different in shape to the original GC type. That's what I'll fit.

The lettering whilst neat and tidy is missing the fine white edging between the yellow and the red and brown shading. The red lining is extremely well done but I think the jury is still out on whether the wheels should be lined or not.

Buffer shanks need to be painted black for LNER black livery.

Andrew

Love the lighting on this photo of Tracery Gibert- terrific in fact.

Andrew

3 hours ago, DougN said:

Great to see every one is keeping Tony alive and kicking... well flogging the students. I am slightly worried about Andy R 's comment above... next year when I make it back to the UK I look to darken the door of a Mr Wright...!!  (I am a rather tall individual!)    I do wonder if us ANZAC's are slowly taking over... There is a large number from this part of the world that are making a bit of a trip over to see him! Funny thing is alot of us, Jesse, Myself, Woodcock... all model LNER! 

 

Any how great to see your all having fun. Tony will be saying things to Jesse about his tattoos and long hair... then move onto modelling... I suspect he will make endless jokes about P4 when I see him next 🤣

 

 

 

 

I'm also planning on going over in 2024. Possibly April-May. Can't believe it will be 7 years since the last trip then - but we did lose a few years!

Andrew

I've had the same view about the lettering not having the fine white edging to the main lettering colour but was waiting until my black 5024 arrives to make any comment. Looking at some photos I was starting to think maybe it is there but very subdued. I'll comment more once mine has arrived, hopefully within the next week.

8 hours ago, t-b-g said:

 

Have you looked at photos of real D2s in your assessment of the model Tony? The reason people thought it was several mm. out is that on the real D2, on a sideways shot, the top of the bogie wheels is just under the bottom edge of the valance.

 

That is the reason why the front end looks so wrong. If the buffer height is correct (I always measure against rail height rather than compare it to another model that may or may not be correct but I am sure you have built enough DJH locos to be confident that it is right) then either the bogie wheels are undersized, or the valance is too thin, or maybe both.

 

I would need to check a drawing to be certain but my recollection is that the chimney on the non superheated version of this loco was in the centre of the smokebox, not against the rear edge. They were usually vertical too but that perception may be caused by the close up camera and distortion. Maybe it is vertical in real life. The handrail is rather too low as well. There should be a much bigger gap between the splasher top and the handrail. The shape of the front footplate step plate is quite wrong too. It should have a lovely curve at the front edge. 

 

There are so many things not quite right that a major strip down and a rebuild would be needed to make into a decent D2. It is maybe one of those "If you want to go there, I wouldn't start from here" situations.

 

I thought you were quite correct when you questioned whether or not it was a worthwhile exercise to put time, effort and money into it. 

In some ways I don't want to get back on this subject - Jesse's  D2.

Tony G is right about the chimney position. Tony W has corrected the height issue which was really only marginal. The reason it looks odd is that the  bogie wheels are under size and I think Tony W mentioned this in the first instance but also the splashers are oversize which makes the driving wheels look too small and the handrail too close to the top of the splashers. The handrail is in the correct position. There's not much Tony W could have done about the splashers. Its much easier to make them larger (which I did on a Bec D11) than make them smaller.

Andrew

Tony 

I hope you got the personal email I sent you late last night your time?

Andrew

4 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

The jury's probably out, Andrew.

 

In my Yeadon's Volume 21, the images are a bit 'grim', so it's impossible to tell if any wheels are lined red or not. 

 

What is clear is that the general application of lining on the BR example...........

 

 

Is very crisp indeed. 

 

As for the lamp (which comes attached) showing a red aspect on the top rear lamp bracket, can anyone hazard a guess? 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

I would guess it's going to disappear! Not much call for bankers on LB.

4 hours ago, jwealleans said:

 

Andrew - these small extracts from a K3 painting specification (LNER Drawing 14162-D) kindly scanned by Dave Jobling:

 

 

 

I read HNG's signature date as September 1928, which I think is after the painting specifications were changed to be less costly?

 

I also had a look at Brian Haresnape's book last night and I wonder if there are variations by Works as well.   The very well known color picture of a clean C4 where the red lining is very clearly visible shows no evidence of it on the wheels (Gorton), but a black and white shot of a V1 tank does seem to me to have it (Doncaster?).

 

Practically, except on  an ex-Works or recently cleaned loco I doubt much lining would be visible.

 

 

 

 

Thanks for this info Jonathan.

I've been looking at passenger tank photos in particular tonight. Maybe I can see red lining on some N2 wheels in Yeadon Vol 25. Before, I thought these lines were the joint between the wheel rims and the tyres or between the wheel centre and the axle.

In Vol 16 on V1s, V3s and Thompson L1s (which I must admit I've hardly looked at) its very clear that on freshly shopped V1s and V3s they had red lining on the wheels.

In Vol 21 which includes the A5s there is no clear evidence of any red-lined black A5s with red-lined wheels.

I've learnt a lot tonight - at least some classes, other than J72s, clearly had red-lined wheels.

So the lining on the wheels of my Sonic A5 will remain at least for the moment.

Andrew

5 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Good afternoon Mick,

 

The lined black LNER locos which I've built which Ian Rathbone and Geoff Haynes have painted for me have red-lined wheels.

 

Knowing their expertise (and ability), I assume it's correct.

 

 

London Road D2.

 

 

DJH Klondike

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

They do look very nice Tony.

I remain to be convinced they should have red-lined wheels. I can't find any evidence of this in any books (and I have most Yeadons and a lot of others) other than on the J72s I mentioned previously.

The tender on the D2 above is lined incorrectly in my view. The red lining shouldn't go up on to the flare of the side. It should be like the C2 tender. I didn't mention it previously when you posted that photo earlier.

Are you still connected to the LNER Soc? Surely someone in that org would know about the wheels?

Andrew

13 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

 

I've just received a sample of the Sonic Models' A5 for review in BRM.........

 

 

It does look rather good, and runs beautifully! 

 

 

Tony

My LNER black lined in red model of 5024 is on its way to me and will hopefully arrive late next week. I've been following the development of this model since its first announcement back in 2021.

Overall it appears to be a good model of the prototype.

One thing that strikes me though is the chimney. All the various model versions appear to be fitted with the same chimney yet there were three different chimneys fitted to the class across their life. None of the models appear to require the Gresley flowerpot chimney fitted late 20s-early 30s which was rather ugly (note this is what anyone contemplating converting the model to replicate one of the LNER built versions will require). However, the LNER black 5024 and the BR versions should all be fitted with the LNER cast chimney, similar to but different to the original GC chimney as well as being slightly shorter. Unfortunately the GC chimney they've fitted them all with doesn't reflect the elegant curves of the original. The main body of the chimney is too tapered towards the top it should curve out wider beneath the wide top rim. 

As the chimney is part of the face of the loco this is unfortunate in my view. Fortunately I have a couple of options for what I might use to replace it - a spare Craftsman A5 chimney and a PDK O4 chimney.

There are a couple of livery issues but these are easily fixed. The LNER versions should have black buffer shanks not red and my understanding is that the LNER black 5024 should not have red lining on its wheels.  I'd love someone to prove that wrong so I don't need to paint the wheels black but as far as I can discover only a few J72s had red lining on their wheels.

The bogie wheels look quite good on this model - what's you opinion?

It will be interesting to compare it to my Craftsman kit that I built back in the 1980s. I know the Craftsman model is a bit too too narrow across the bunker.

Andrew

6 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

It's the lowest I could get it Andrew,

 

If you look closely, you'll find that the bogie wheels are under-scale (they came with the bits). Fitting 14mm ones resulted in those larger ones fouling the frames. The tender employs outside bearings - with holes in the frames for the stub axles. Lowering the body would require a sub-frame, or smaller wheels (14mm?). 

 

Here's a thought; since you're much nearer to him, when he gets it home would you like to lower it? I've had enough. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony.

I could certainly have a look at it for him.

Someone suggested it might be a WSM kit which from my experience with a J6 aren't that great to start with - so this could be correct. The ride height in that case was about 1mm too high with the tender but the engine was ok. The tender does look the same.

It's not the Models & Leisure/Premier kits model which was for both D2 or D3 and was the flat footplate version (unless they also made one of this type?). I've currently got one on the work bench but I've had to strip the paint as I wasn't happy with the finish.

I take the point about not spending excessive time on something that's not a good model in the first place.

However, like Tony Gee, I also quite like taking something that I know needs a lot of work to make something good out of a poor model.

Andrew