fallen

Whereas HS2 would mean years of disruption for those living near the line, not to mention destruction of homes, jobs, environment and communities. At least upgrading the existing routes would only inconvenience those who will ultimately benefit, whereas those whose life is damaged by HS2 will be people who do not benefit. Frank

Hi Dave and welcome! The Deltang TX 22 will control up to 12 RX 6 series receivers and I would expect that another TX 22 would control another 12 but I suggest you email David who makes them, he usually responds to queries pretty quickly. His email is on the DelTang website, or you can post a query on Freerails on the thread about his equipment. I would not expect any interference problems with electrical equipment generally, the system uses quite high frequency at 2.4 GHz, the same as WiFi, and is fairly robust. The only problem I have ever had was when first binding the loco to the TX when working next to a PC running a WiFi link. Once bound the system is trouble free. I guess you can wire the cells in series and use the RX 6 series which has higher power capability, and the charge the cells separately, but it will extend the time spent charging. Usually charging is quite quick at say 10 mins to half an hour depending on the charger setup, but then you would multiply that by the number of cells or have several chargers. I have found that loco motors need less voltage than you might think since you don't have the voltage drop in the connections, rails and wheel contacts. It might be worth doing some tests with the motor wired directly to the controller and a voltmeter reading the voltage, to see what it actually needs. Have fun! Frank

Hi David, and welcome to the forum. That seems a really impressive system you have there. As you may have noticed, there are a few of us here who are trying out radio control battery powered locos in small scales. We tend to use modified model aircraft technology, LiPo batteries, and the modified radio systems from DelTang are typically what we are using. You look to have gone a different route. What sort of batteries are you using? The LiPos tend to impose constraints on motor voltage and charging systems which you look to have avoided. The speed control system sounds fascinating too. More details please! Frank

Are you perhaps thinking of the 10000 build proposal? http://www.railwaymagazine.co.uk/news/bid-to-build-new-lms-diesel-10000 Frank

Seb, There is a thread elsewhere on the forum on radio control. I have used the DelTang electronics in 009 so O-16.5 or 16mm should not be a problem: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/64616-battery-poweredradio-controlled-locos/page-5 For 009 the batteries were LiPo as used in model aircraft. These should be OK for O-16.5 too. In 16mm, battery power is common using AA cells or similar. Frank

Seb, Just starting to look at this idea myself. Going to an exhibition is an ideal way to get a feel for the sizes of the different scales, failing that the 16mm association have a series of open days although you may have to join to go. On the subject of track and curves, Peco do set track in SM32 which I assume is more gauge consistent than flexitrack for sharper curves. Frank

Sounds like a good plan. Also the battery life should be good for the shunters which are only used intermittently, whereas the long running mainline locos will run off the track so battery life for them will not be an issue. Frank

If you want to get started with PicAXE these are probably as good value as any starter kits: http://www.kitronik.co.uk/products/project-kits/programmable-pic-kits/picaxe-project-kits-and-chips/ Frank

You can email for more info to: themodelworks@ozemail.com.au The info you get back suggests it is the complete package for the loco - receiver, battery, switch, charging socket. They say they advise on battery choice. I suspect this complete package is the most useful aspect. However the loco they show is I think 1:35 scale although they claim all scales down to n gauge can be fitted. Also they have various transmitters which do look like DelTang units. As I said, looks promising but I have no experience of them as yet. Frank

True, but I think the attraction for many will be that you get the complete package with no need to worry about sourcing the ancilliary components. Frank

This looks like a promising development. TrainworxOz are offering complete radio control installation kits: http://themodelworksaustralia-com.webs.com/ Frank

Good move Stuart. It will be interesting to see how they respond. Frank

Interesting! I wonder what batteries they are using? Are they maybe hidden in the second loco body? Frank

Hi Stuart, I got my batteries from Micron but they have now decided to stop selling them so it is just what is left on the sale pages which changes daily. If they sell out of what you want then there are other suppliers eg Robotbirds but I have not checked if they have these. They do have the Hyperion ones I use. I think you will find these 20 mAh batteries won't give you much battery life. The n-gauge chassis I have tested take anything from 60 to 250 mA so at say 100 mA these batteries will only last 12 minutes or so of continuous running whereas 200 mAh batteries will last a couple of hours. I think it would be worth seeing if you can get bigger capacity ones in. Another point to watch is battery connectors, the ones you mention and some others have solder tags which you can solder to whatever you want, but most LiPos come with some form of connector attached which correspond to the connector on the model aircraft they are designed for. Unfortunately there are several designs of connector. It's quite important to find a supplier of the appropriate connector to be able to us them for something else. The ones with solder tags are probably the easiest to use if you can find the right sized ones. Frank

Hi Stuart, Here is a photo of the 009 RNAD loco: You can see the switch in the cab and also just about make out the beacon as one of the two small items on the bonnet just in front of the cab. Otherwise its as per the kit, with all the battery and electronics tucked away inside the body and the bottom of the cab. Frank

Hi Stuart, The battery is a Hyperion 180mAh 1S ie single cell. The loco takes about 60 - 80 mA when running, 10mA on standby, so in theory this will run it for 2 - 3 hours continuously. In practice of course it is very much stop - start and I have not had it run down in use. I also now have a Narrow Planet RNAD diesel that I have made up, this also runs on the Kato chassis and has the Hyperion 130 mAh cell which also seems fine - its a bit smaller so the 180 mAh cell would not have fitted. I got my batteries from Micron but they have stopped selling components now; you can get them from Robotbirds though I think. The Peco kit was put together very quickly just to see if it would work, doing it again I would have taken more time on the kit bodywork and also tried the radio hidden in the body instead of having it in the cab. This would have needed some way of seeing the status LED, and also possibly routing the antenna into the cab. For the RNAD loco I do have the radio in the body, I have put a transparent beacon made out of styrene sprue in the top of the bonnet just where the LED is to show the status, this looks OK on the bonnet of a diesel but would look a bit odd in the boiler of a steam loco. Also the RNAD has a charging plug fitted whereas the Peco requires the battery to be taken out to charge - not a problem as the top of the body lifts off so it is easy to get to, but with other models this may not be so convenient. I would be interested in seeing how you get on with the 04, this is probably about the same size as my RNAD which is 009 of course, but I have the advantage with that of using the Kato chassis which is very low profile and so still leaves room in the body for the battery. I have looked at some quite small 009 locos using an Arnold chassis which has the motor mounted well back, projecting into the cab, and this leaves some room in the loco body, but the GraFar chassis may not work like this although it has been suggested you can remove at least some of the metalwork on the 08 chassis to make some space. I have not looked at this myself. Frank

I fully agree with Robin2's sentiments above. The revelation for me when I switched on my first radio control loco for the first time was that it just works! No nudging, no prodding, no thumping the baseboard, it just goes when you say go. This is particularly useful to me in modelling small locos in 009 which are well known to be difficult to get running smoothly and slowly as their contact with the track is limited. The second thing, that takes a bit longer to sink in, is that you really are driving the loco. Your controller, in your hand, controls what the loco does. No fancy control panel to fiddle with. No isolated sections to park it, no dead sections in front of points if you have forgotten to change them, it's all down to you. The third thing, that I am only now coming to think about, is that it removes all the constraints on layout design. If you want a reversing loop, put one in. The same with double slips and crossovers. You don't need to worry about the electrical issues that stopped you putting them in before. And the fourth thing is that you can think about going out into the garden with small scale locos without worrying about electrics or keeping the track clean. I don't think battery life is an issue since most locos are not running flat out all the time. If they are really just chasing round an oval, then probably DC is all that you need, and you can have this and radio control at the same time of course. In time of course batteries will continue to improve so this will be less of an issue in the future. Frank

Robin is right you do need a switch to switch the battery off as they don't like being run flat. These are the ones I use: http://uk.farnell.com/multicomp/mc5sed3s05m2res/switch-ip67-dpdt-on-off-on-pcb/dp/2008807 They are a different orientation which I find easier to fit in. I use one pole to switch the battery between the radio and the charging socket which I have fitted to save getting the battery out of the loco to charge it. They are SPDT or DPDT but both are the same size so I use the DPDT and use the other pole to switch the motor between the radio and the track so when the radio is switched off it is a normal DC loco. Frank

Hi Stuart, Thanks -glad you like it. DelTang units were originally developed as model aircraft controllers. They operate on 2.4GHz and each loco and controller is basically a pair of very very small computers linked by radio. It is a robust system as it has to be for aircraft control. I'm just a satisfied customer, no commercial link to them. The basic system has one loco linked to one controller. You can link the controller to a different loco but it only works one at a time. However the controller is a 6 or 7 channel controller and so more advanced ones can control several locos at once. There is one that controls three and I think you can get up to six in theory. Batteries are aircraft radio control LiPos which are typically good for a few hours intermittent running. They are high power density and retain their charge very well. Voltage can be an issue, a single cell is 3.7v nominal, so you would think you would need several, but often a single cell is OK as there is no voltage lost in wiring, track contact, pickups etc. and also no need to run fast to get over dead spots in the track etc. Really good slow running is one of the attractions of this approach. Hope this is useful. Frank

Hi Stuart, Try this: This is the 009 loco in the videos I posted in post 102 above. It's a Peco tram loco body kit on a standard Kato n gauge tram chassis. It's running on a sheet of glass standing on a couple of plasic boxes on my table. The controller is there too. That's all there is - no big electronic box of tricks off stage or anything. And it's all built with off-the-shelf DelTang electronics and a standard battery. The future has arrived. Believe it! Frank

Hi Robin, Charging through the track from a lineside charger is thought to be difficult because the voltage lost in the wheel/track contact resistance means the charger does not see the true battery voltage. Also, a voltage divider might work with a direct connection but will reslt in much slower charging I think. Overall I think this will result in slower charging which may not be a problem as the upside is that charging on the track will mean you will not run the battery down so much perhaps. I think monitoring the charge will be quite important here. Do you have a meter you can monitor the voltage on the track with? Frank

Hi Robin, Interesting charging circuit. I can see why people say it isn't sophisticated enough, usually there is a dedicated LiPo charger IC that is used, but if it does the job and meets the spec then why not? I think it would be a good idea to keep an eye on it whilst it charges though, even just at first to build up confidence. I will be interested to see how you get on with it. Do you plan to build this into the loco? Frank

Robin, Very nice to find another radio control enthusiast. I am sure this is a technology which has now reached the point that it can be applied even to small scale railway modelling and it offers many advantages, although it will not be for every layout especially continuous run layouts for which it will have fewer advantages and more disadvantages. Good to hear you are trying it out and I look forward to seeing the results. A couple of points on your post if I may, I have not found battery life a problem. The battery in the Peco loco is a single cell 180mA-hr and should theoretically run it for 2-3 hours continuous. That's a lot of shuffling in and out of a terminus or shunting in the yard. In practice I have not had it run down on me yet. Recharging time depends on the current, it will happily take 500mA and at that rate charges in ten minutes or so from flat, but I do take it out of the loco for that. At 100 mA, which I would leave it in the loco for, it would take maybe an hour or so. The loco I am currently building will have a charging socket in the cab and a lift off cab roof. Charging from the track can be difficult unless you build the charging electronics into the loco which is another board to find space for. LiPos need to be tightly controlled when charging and this is difficult with track and wheel contact resistance between charger and battery. Two cell LiPos, of course, need to have balanced charge to the two cells which is another complication. I use the radio control electronics from DelTang, they work really well. The receiver is tiny but controls the loco very well. I also use his transmitter which is fairly inexpensive and looks comfortingly like a wireless railway control unit as it has a switch for direction and a knob for speed. Frank

I posted this in another thread but maybe its better here. I'm still finding my way around I'm afraid. Here are a couple of videos I posted a month or so ago of a 009 Peco tram loco kit on a Kato tram chassis with radio control from DelTang: Here is a video of the loco running round a train on my "developing" layout (really just track so far): and here is a closer look at the loco uncoupling: It runs very smoothly. It's not awfully fast (the video shows it at full speed) but it's fast enough to by prototypical I think. It has really good slow speed control, like DCC, and of course it does not hesitate at points nor refuse to start without a nudge or a prod. I think this is the most impressive part, you turn the knob on the controller and it just starts off! In the uncoupling video for instance it's very easy to position the train over the uncoupler (I'm using Greenwich couplings with under track magnets). Frank