Douglas G

Thanks for that Jerry. I have now tried sticking my Fastaid lint to plywood using a very thin layer of PVA, and while all the fibres have stuck down successfully and stayed in place after the backing was peeled off, the resulting grass is very sparse and you can see the base more than the fibres. Looking at the piece of backing that I peeled off, there are virtually no fibres left. It therefore seems to be an issue of this lint not having such dense fibres as in the lint that used to be available. It is possible that some of the lint was lost in the dyeing process in the washing machine, but it did look sparse before I started. Douglas

Hi Jerry, Many thanks for the advice. Like Ian I was going to ask you what make of lint you use. The results on your layouts are excellent and very realistic. In terms of my experiment with the lint, I think if I had glued it to something other than hardboard, for example plywood, then all the lint would have stuck down OK. I will have to give it another go with ply when I have the time. It was a spare piece of old, poor quality hardboard that I used, so with hindsight it is not surprising that the glue pulled away some of the layers of wood fibres. Regarding the amount of PVA, I had read that only a thin layer was needed like you say, and none had seeped into the lint fibres. So this wasn't an issue. I think the main problem was that the Robinson Fastaid absorbent lint that I used did not have enough lint fibres. I had to buy it mail order as I could not find it in any local pharmacists, and when it arrived I immediately thought it did not look very dense. I suspect that the makes of lint previously available, e.g. from Boots (as described in modelling articles and books from the past) had longer and thicker fibres, but this came to be seen as a disadvantage for wound healing, hence the less fuzzy varieties. Boots seem to have stopped supplying it at all. Searching online for "absorbent lint", apart from the Robinson Fastaid lint (available in different package weights from several suplliers), I could only find the following in the UK: Rerelint: http://www.reliancemedical.co.uk/Dress_relilint.html Numark: http://www.micglobal.co.uk/absorbent-lint-i1370.html Fortuna: http://www.dooyoo.co.uk/first-aid/fortuna-absorbent-cotton-lint-bp/ Superdrug also do small sheets of lint, but I have read that it is not suitable for model grass, having very few thin and short fibres. I am reluctant to waste any more money on trying different makes of the lint, so if anyone has any recommendations, I would welcome them! Regarding your comments about static grass, I think that some of the mixtures available have too big a variation in the colours of fibres. Looking at real grass from a scale distance, the blades actually look very uniform over small distances during the main growing season. The variation in colour is mainly over a scale of several feet, with whole patches of slightly different colours according to water and nutrient variations in the soil, as in these photos of my prototype location: http://www.exmoorian.co.uk/dulverton-railway-station.htm http://www.railwayramblers.org.uk/photo/56photo.htm Another problem seems to be that the fibres can look a bit shiny, and several people on RMWeb have suggested a light spray with matt varnish to tone them down. Douglas

I have now tried peeling off the dyed surgical lint from my test piece, and not got very good results, I'm afraid. I used a piece of hardboard for the test and I did not anticipate that the glue would be so strong as to peel off a layer of the hardboard in places! So I have had to try cutting carefully with a scalpel as I peel off the lint, and got this result: Apart from the fibres being far too dark a green because I dyed them too much, the resulting "grass" has turned out very patchy, flat and thin. I think it may be that the lint I used (Fastaid absorbent lint) does not have such dense and thick fibres as other surgical lints that people have described using in the past. I have read that absorbent lint has gone out of favour for medical use because bits of fibre get into the wound. So I don't think I will be pursuing this surgical lint option, especially as whatever surface I stick the fibres down to will have to be very strong if it is not to be lifted off when the lint backing is peeled off... Plan B will be to try 1 and 2mm static fibres, plus Woodlands Scenics fine turf for the lawn areas. Douglas

An interesting idea, Andy. I am sure it would work for the cotton lint, but I don't think it would dye artificial fibres as used in the teddy bear fabric, especially when the Dylon didn't work. There is also the issue of fading of the dye with time, which may be more likely with organic dyes, I think. I suspect I am going to end up using static grass after trying all the alternatives. I think that the material of the fibres is self-coloured rather than dyed, so may be resistant to fading. Douglas

Well, as I suspected, my surgical lint has come out far too dark a green using the Dylon washing machine dye in olive green. It looks like a Subbuteo pitch! Unfortunately I dyed the whole roll as it is was the weight suggested on the dye packet, which was a mistake - I should have done half or a quarter. Even dyed, the lint is too thin and the square weave of the backing is too obvious to glue the stuff down whole on its backing. I am trying the technique suggested in several books and articles of laying it fuzzy side down on a very thin layer of PVA, waiting until the glue is dry, and then peeling or cutting the backing off. I have stuck down a sample tonight on a green and brown painted background to see which works best. If it does work, I will then probably try bleaching the lint and then possibly giving it a brief dyeing with yellow dye. But I wonder if the glue will hold the fibres, and I also wonder if they will appear dense enough to look like grass. Time will tell... Since buying the dye, a visit to Wilkinsons this weekend showed me Dylon also do cheaper dyes suitable for hand dyeing, which I wish I had bought instead of the machine wash version (the shop I went to originally only sold that). At the same time a visit to a local art shop nearby found some other possible solutions for colouring the lint and the teddy bear fabric, which did not take up the Dylon dye at all. The shop had in stock Dylon fabric paint at around £2-3 a small bottle, which seems to colour the teddy bear fabric quite well on a test corner. They also had Letraset Promarkers for around £1-50 which will also colour the teddy bear fabric very well, but you can only do a small area at a time. I wonder if they could be used to colour small areas of pre-coloured grass material to give a more natural variation. There is another, similar make of marker called Copic for which you can buy the ink separately, and it can be airbrushed apparently: http://store.copicmarker.com/collections/various-ink-yellow-green I wonder if this might be a good way to colour the teddy bear fabric. Even if one of the methods of colouring the fur works, I think the fibres will be shiny and will need to be misted with matt varnish at the end. Another product they had in the art shop was acrylic ink, which may also work, but I didn't buy it this time around as the cost was mounting up! A final possible product to represent grass I have ordered online is something they apparently use for model-making in the USA, plush felt: http://www.k-craftteddies.co.uk/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=10_12&sort=20a&page=1 It seems to be a US product that has to be imported. I have ordered a piece each of the smoky brown and the cashmere tan as colours likely to look like grass once coloured or dyed. I am hoping that being shorter than the teddy bear fur and apparently very dense, they can be used whole for 2mm grass without the weave of the backing showing through. I am going to try test samples of all the different materials stuck on a green and a brown painted background and compare with static fibres. I hope to post pics of the results soon. Douglas

To save clogging up this 2mm workbench topic, I will post the results of my experiments with surgical lint and teddy bear fabric on my Dulverton thread, starting with the dyeing process: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/46817-dulverton-station-in-n-experimenting-with-dyeing-grass-materials/page-4 Douglas

As well as the background, I have been experimenting with ways to produce grass. Today I have tried dyeing various materials with Dylon olive green dye, as used by Barry Norman to dye felt carpet underlay (which is too coarse for 2mm scale). I have tried dyeing a 500g roll of white cotton surgical lint, a piece of Treemendous teddy bear fur and some other samples of fur fabric and felt from a local fabric shop in our washing machine, with 500g of salt added as in the Dylon instructions. I could see the lint take up the dye almost immediately, but at the end of the cycle none of the other materials had taken up the colour to any appreciable extent. So if I am going to use teddy bear fur, it will need to be painted, I think. It must be because it is made from artificial fibres. I found one natural teddy bear fibre for dyeing on line from a teddy bear supplies shop (mohair I think), but it was £60 a square metre! Meantime, the surgical lint has come out very dark, something like billiard table baize. I am now running a second cycle with detergent as per the dye instructions to see if it gets lighter. If it remains too dark I may have to try bleaching it. Perhaps I should have tried dyeing it in a bucket instead, but there was no mention of this in the instructions. I also hope I can get all the dye out of our washing machine, or I will be in big trouble with the missus... Regarding the Treemendus teddy bear fabric, while searching around for teddy bear fabric, I spotted this supplier selling Copic pens and ink refills for colouring fabric: http://www.christiebears.com/acatalog/Airbrushing_System.html I wonder if a suitable colour for grass could be blended from these inks and if it would colour the teddy bear fabric. Douglas

Thanks Andy. What programme would you suggest I use to add the two images to the left? Can I do it in something like GIMP? Hugin panorama software had a more advanced menu to allow you to define reference points in the photos to be joined up, but I couldn't work out how to use it. As I said, these aren't the photos I intend to use, just a try out to give me an idea of what is involved and the final height of the backscene when the images are blown up to the length of the model. But I do like the hazy appearance in these images which gives a good impression of distance, and may try processing my final images to add a touch of blue to suggest scale distance. I will have to arrange a weekend in Dulverton later in the year to get some high quality digital photos. I realise that I will have to stand more to the right/east on the hill above the station when taking the pictures, to remove the slope with the sheep appearing in the right of the panorama above. There is more of the horizon to the right that would have to be included in the final background as it should be visible at the right-hand, eastern end of the model, as in this photo taken at the station site: http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/107003 Douglas

Hi Tom, Will do. I have just been searching "teddy bear fabric grass" in Google and found some interesting war gaming articles and posts on using teddy bear fabric as grass. One point mentioned there that has already occurred to me is that being an artificial fibre, the teddy bear fabric may not take up the Dylon dye and so it needs to be painted as you did. It isn't a problem dyeing surgical lint as it is cotton and Barry Norman amongst others has shown how this can be done. What is really needed is a short pile fur fabric where the weave of the backing does not show through. I wonder if colouring the PVA green will help by filling in the square holes in the weave of the backing when it is stuck down. Your technique of soaking the backing in green paint probably has a similar effect of filling in the holes, especially if the backing fibres also swell up. Cheers, Douglas

Inspired by your post I have just received in the post an A3 piece of the Treemendus Teddy Bear fabric that you used, to try it out for myself. The hairs are actually a lot longer than I expected and will definitely need cutting down a lot - I am going to try cordless electric hair trimmers bought cheaply off eBay. Your embankment looks fantastic. But looking closely at the teddy bear fabric now I have got it, I don't think it would work to stick this fabric down on its backing if you are modelling very short grass, as the weave of the backing will show through as a grid pattern. This is the same with the roll of surgical absorbent lint that I have also bought to try out. I intend to try dyeing both the teddy bear fabric and surgical lint with Dylon olive green and seeing what results I get. Douglas

Thanks David. I have seen Art Printers mentioned elsewhere on the forum for doing backgrounds, and will check them out when I have some better images ready for use. One thing I don't want is any joins in the print out. Cheers, Douglas

I have been playing around with various free panorama stitching programmes to see how easy it is to produce an image for a photographic printed background. I posted some of my findings on this thread: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/39018-photo-stitching/page-3 Unfortunately I lost a set of digital photos I took for the background at Dulverton, so for this trial I have had to scan in some very hazy 35mm photos I took years ago. They are not suitable for the final version and miss the left-hand end of the panorama, as I did not overlap the photos enough there for the stitching programmes to recognise that they joined. However, it gives me some idea of how a background could look. This is the best one, produced using Microsoft ICE, after cropping: You can see the ex-station buildings on the left and the line of the old railway embankment towards the bottom of the image. As the background on the model is behind these, I intend to use the clone and stamp tool in a photo-editing programme, probably GIMP, to edit out the buildings and trees along the line of the railway and station and replace the fields behind. Conveniently there is a hill above the site of the station which I can use to take the background photos from above the level of the station, matching the sort of height someone would be viewing the model. In the late spring or summer I intend to go back to Dulverton and take some pictures in the evening when the sun will be behind me. Unfortunately, I live quite a long way from Dulverton in the East Midlands and it is a bit of a hike. Douglas

I have been making some very bizarre purchases recently... 1 can of hair spray (got my wife to buy that for me!) 1 piece of teddy bear fabric 1 roll of surgical lint 1 pack of Dylon olive green dye 1 reel of nylon "invisible" thread 1 pack of brass needlework pins 1 set of cordless electric hair clippers 1 tea strainer attached to an electric fly swat 1 photographic blower brush ...all for landscape modelling.

Hi Andy, I have seen both clippers and "fuzz busters" being suggested for this, but perhaps scissors will give a more realistic range of lengths. In 4mm and 7mm scale Barry Norman uses dog trimmers to cut down bleached carpet underlay, but this is too coarse for 2mm scale. Douglas

I am currently continuing to paint the main platform and the land around the Hotel, and as I do, I am pondering how to do the grass in the areas currently painted a base brown. For me a major consideration is keeping things in scale and trying to match prototype photographs as much as possible. In 2mm scale, 2mm long static grass fibres of course correspond to 1 foot high grass, which is actually very long except for scrub areas and uncut embankments at the end of summer. The grass blades on well kept lawns are 1-3 inches high, corresponding to 0.5mm static grass at the most, so even 1mm fibres are strictly speaking too long. I am therefore inclined towards using Woodland Scenics fine flock for the lawn areas behind the hotel - this has worked well on a test area. I am going to try different techniques and see which works for me. I have an FMR sieve-style static applicator on order along with some of their 1 and 2mm static fibres. In 2mm scale I am not convinced of the need for the larger, more powerful static grass applicators, given that they can be over £100. I have also ordered some of the teddy bear fabric from Treemendus, and have already purchase a roll of surgical lint form an online supplier. I am going to try dyeing the lint and the teddy bear fabric with Dylon olive green dye. I will also experiment with either laying the flint and teddy bear fabric directly down on their backing, or sticking them face down with the fibres glued to the surface then ripping the backing off, a technique described by several established modellers. Of course the teddy bear fabric will need to be cut down for 2mm scale. As discussed today in the 2mm scale workbench thread, the Treemendus fur has a very thin backing and it may be possible to get away with using it whole, with the backing underneath. I don't think this will work with the surgical lint though, as the fibres are not that dense and the weave of the backing shows through as a squares. I doubt that dyeing the lint will make any difference to this, but I will give it a go to see. If I use the lint, it will probably have to be the method of sticking down the fibres and cutting/peeling off the backing. Reading around, it looks like different techniques work for different people, and it will be a matter of trial and error to see what works for me. Douglas

Here are some more pictures of my progress on Dulverton over Christmas taken with my new camera, a Lumix TZ40. These are taken with flash plus a desk lamp - it was too cold, wet and windy to go out to the shed where my photo lamps are set up. I wish I had put up a background, but that was out in the shed too... First, a couple of pics showing the Carnarvon Arms Hotel in place in its base viewed from the left-hand side (from the West or Barnstaple direction) - I have made a start on the porches and bays, but keep breaking the fine styrene frames and have not put them in place for these pictures: This is the real thing from similar angles: http://www.francisfrith.com/dulverton/photos/carnarvon-arms-hotel-c1960_d60039/ http://www.francisfrith.com/dulverton/photos/carnarvon-arms-hotel-c1960_d60055/ Next the Hotel from the south, as it would appear from the road bridge direction: And the real thing from a similar direction: http://www.francisfrith.com/dulverton/photos/carnarvon-arms-hotel-c1960_d60037/ This is an overview of the west end of the station towards the hotel; at the front is the Signal and Telegraph department hut next to the horse-box siding: : This is the S&T department hut and embankment for the horse-box siding from the other (west/Barnstaple) direction - I have just made the concrete coal bunker and grind stone: The real thing: http://www.flickr.com/photos/45127721@N05/8578750110/in/photolist-e55kwE-bVygpp-abJCSv-fARriZ-cGXzeJ-c8hYZd-dxKof5-81NXTn-fs7jLj-frSaNi-frSaYF-frS1ZT-a3ywxr-9wrT27-fueECE Finally the rear station yard and Silcock's shed, with petrol pump to rear: One of the few pictures showing the station yard for comparison the Silcock's store is on the right out of view: http://www.ssplprints.com/image.php?id=418530 I have dozens of other photos of the station, but they are copyright and can't be posted here. The Aerofilms aerial views are particularly useful in getting the layout of things right. Lots still to do. Not least I will try weathering the concrete, starting with artists pastels, then weathering powders to try to get the right effect. I will also try rubbing in talcum powder or dry polyfilla on the road surfaces. The thing that always surprises me when you look at the real thing is just how light grey tarred road surfaces can be - not at all black. I will try to post more pictures as I learn how to use the new camera. Douglas

That looks really good, and it is good to know it can be done. It is such a risk to try with a signal costing over £20. Douglas

Hi Andy, Many thanks for the message, and Happy Christmas to you too! It is nice to get feedback. I have been on a bit of a roll with the landscape recently. Things are at the stage where you can see progress happening more quickly, after a lot of fussy stuff building the base for the hotel and station area and adding small details - a lot of trial and error and redoing things at times. Last Saturday was warm enough for me to spray the hotel section and main station base with Halfords grey primer in our conservatory, which made it all come together and showed up the details. Then yesterday I made a start on painting the road surfaces. Annoyingly a couple of tins of Humbrol greys I needed for some parts had dried out, so it is off to that wonderful shop RBS in Long Eaton for some more. I will post some more pics soon. Douglas

A few more pictures of progress. This overview is towards the back left of the layout towards the site of the hotel. I have added the concrete posts using 0.81 mm square brass bar, which I thought it easiest to set in place before I spray it all with grey primer. This is a close up of the posts. In reality they were tapered, but I think they look OK once the top has been rounded with a file. A close up of the site of the horse box siding and the signal and telegraph department shed, again showing the fence posts: The last Dulverton photo here shows how this area looked after the station was closed: http://www.cornwallrailwaysociety.org.uk/taunton-to-barnstaple.html Finally the fence around the top garden area of the Carnarvon Arms. This is made from Faller plastic fencing: The scalloping of the Faller product was too pronounced so I have cut them down to a more subtle curve, and they match the prototype well now. There is a postcard on ebay (a copy of which I have already purchased) that shows part of this fence: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Carnarvon-Arms-Hotel-Dulverton-Somerset-postcard-1976-/321270789727?pt=UK_Collectables_Postcards_MJ&hash=item4acd3b365f Hopefully soon I can get it all sprayed with grey primer ready for the road surfaces to be painted and grass etc. added, weather permitting. I wanted to do this today, but it has started to rain. I have previously got into trouble with the domestic authorities for getting spray drops everywhere when spraying in our conservatory! Douglas

Have you got some stocks of old Halfords spray paint? Current Halfords sprays are actually based on an acrylic formulation, including the primers, so can be used on plastics. Douglas

I have been spending the last week or so on doing fencing in the area between the Station at Dulverton and the Carnarvon Arms Hotel. For the distinctive fencing around the boundary of the hotel, County Rolling Stock etched GWR station fencing is a good match. The only downside is it is rather bendy and fragile. Also I hate soldering - the sections have to be soldered together and I am using solder paint for this. I will then spray with Halfords white primer and probably not bother with a top coat. It is frustrating that it is too cold at the moment to do the spraying. For the fence around the section of garden in front of the conservatory at the side of the hotel, Faller 272406 fencing is a good match to give the scalloped affect and is more or less the right height from the pics I have , despite being 1:160 scale. I can't work out from the two B&W pictures I have whether this area was paved or grass - I am guessing it was lawn. For the fencing at the hotel end of the station platform, I have used Slaters white GWR fencing. Ratio also do a similar fencing, but it looks too tall compared to my prototype. The final bit of fencing is a concrete post and wire fence that ran along the access road next to the horsebox siding. My plan is to do this with square brass section and either fine fishing line or invisible mending thread tied and superglued on as the wire. This should be stronger and finer-looking than any ready made alternatives, I think. I am feeling a bit cross-eyed now after all this - it doesn't help that I spend most of my working day staring at a computer screen, so it is hard on the eyes. Douglas

I have been looking at ways to shorten the square post GWR signal, and I think the easiest way might be to leave the post intact and to raise the ground level up with plastic sheet, wood or similar above the existing base and motor. There would have to be a slot made to accommodate the signal operating rod. Shortening the ladder would be the easy part. Douglas

Ironically, for my prototype of Dulverton I need a tall round post signal and also some short square post signals as starter signals...But I do also have a use for several of the tall square post signals, which I like very much. I am wondering if I dare risk wasting £22 pounds or whatever in trying to shorten or replace the posts. I am guessing the main issue is going to be the wires for the lamp, which pass up the inside of the posts. I have even wondered if I could sand a square post to turn it into a round post. Douglas

I think part of the reason the arm looks large is that for these GWR round post signals Dapol have chosen to do a short post version, whereas for the original square post version it was a tall post signal. The size of the arms does not look so odd in the earlier ones, but the thickness of the arms is still very apparent. Perhaps it would have been better if Dapol had chosen to use etched arms. Douglas

Some photos of progress on the platform, yard area and road at the back of Dulverton Station. Sorry for the poor quality, as they are done with flash and available light. It has been a process of trial and error getting get it right, as I try to interpret photos, aerial views and maps. I have had to add a section to the left of the blue Silcock's provender store as I realised this extended further over, before the embankment leading down to the garden of the Carnarvon Arms Hotel. This area is obscured by trees and tree shadows in aerial views and in Google satellite view, so it is hard to work out what it was like - there is a house built there now and the road to the Hotel to the left has gone. Once it gets warmer it will all need another coat of grey primer before final painting up. I am doing similar work on the piece of land around the hotel, which will join on to this section. Douglas