thegreenhowards

On 07/06/2023 at 15:44, David Bell said:

You can't have too many Class 27's!

I’m doing my best!

The Hattons price just kept getting cheaper, so I succumbed to a couple more. The sharp eyed amongst you will have spotted a 26 as well. I was intending to run mainly 37s with just one or two 27s to represent the earlier era, but I’ve become rather fond of them while researching photos. So far I’ve just changed the head codes and fitted a decoder and ploughs to the new blue 27.
 

The question now is what do I number them. My current thinking is:

New Blue 27: change cab windows to sliding to make a ‘Scottish’ one for some variety and number it 27008. I’ll try swapping the class 26 windows over and replace them with spares if it works.

Green SYP 27: This will have to be a ‘Scottish’ one as I don’t think any ‘English’ ones made it north in this livery. I will have to drill out a tablet catcher recess and do the sliding windows, so this one will go in the pile to be dealt with in due course.

Blue 26: I don’t think 26s were very common on the WHL and I’ve only found one photo of one beyond Fort William - 26034 in 1975 in the Tom Noble book. This has the tablet catcher recess filled in unlike mine, so I’m not sure whether to do this one or go for one which kept its tablet catcher recess longer, like 26041. Is anyone aware of other 26s to Mallaig?

Please excuse the embryonic scenery which is still wip.

Andy 

I agree that etched brass is the best for accuracy and produces a robust model.

However 3d printing and plastic kits are quicker and easier to build. I agree that etched kits are simple enough once you’ve mastered soldering, but plastic is simpler and certainly quicker because a lot of the detail is moulded in.
 

Speed is an important criteria if you’re trying to build up a large fleet rather than just building the kit for its own sake.

Andy

3 hours ago, railtec-models said:

 

Hi Andy, it looks like you went for the sheet of just plain white alpha-nums (which some people use for some projects) rather than either:

 

- the stock item sheet of the reverse-printed alpha-nums with accompanying semi-translucent black backing, or

 

- the custom-made option where you get ready-made headcodes (either printed face-on or in reverse - your choice) with the realistic black / dark grey backing that can be applied in one easy hit. They let the light through perfectly on the alpha-nums whilst the interlocking black verticals between the blinds do not, giving the desired effect like this:

 

 

I would imagine a clear translucent film may allow the light to shine through across the entire thing? If memory serves I tried it back in the early days but I wasn't convinced with the effect, hence I went for the above.

 

Hi Steve,

Yes, I went for your sheet 1039 when I ordered the full 27 (5392) from you a month or so ago. Your other suggestions look like they would have done the job. I just didn’t see them on your website. I didn’t mean to be critical of your products which are always excellent. The white head codes would clearly do a job - just not the one I wanted! I should have asked you but I just saw 1039 and assumed it was what I needed.

Regards

Andy

I’ve just had a nightmare changing the headcode on my Class 27. I assumed that the best way would be to remove the light box from inside and then the headcode would be a loose piece of paper which I could replace - wrong!

The light box was a pig to remove being superglued (or similar) into the roof. I managed to put a screwdriver through the roof in the process of removing it! Even then the headcode is firmly attached to the back of the plastic glazing unit. I tired scraping it off with a knife and it came eventually but resulted in a few scratches. This was sorted with some fine wet and followed by T-cut.

Then I realised that the Railtec transfers I had wouldn’t work because they are white lettering. They could be applied to a black painted background, but then one would lose the impact of the backlighting.

Precision labels came to the rescue with a set of headcodes on translucent film. At £1.50 for a pair or £4.50 for five pairs they’re excellent value. You just cut them out, place them in the light box loose and glue the clear plastic back on with something like glue and glaze or canopy glue.

For the other end and my other 27, I have just prised the clear plastic off the front of the light box with a sharp knife, and applied the fine wet and dry and T cut.  I’m pleased with the result, but what a palaver!

Now has anyone added a tablet catcher recess and converted it to sliding windows for a proper Scottish version?

Andy

2 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Let's fix a time up David,

 

I think it's been mentioned before, but I wonder how many 'Lizzies' were made from the Southern Pride sides and Bachmann donors (or, just the sides and Comet or MJT components)?

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

One here!

I also did several catering cars and even a 3 cpt brake 3rd. All built onto old Bachmann donors. Such a cost effective and easy way of making some necessary and interesting coaches.

Andy

9 hours ago, 45568 said:

A very good question indeed Mr. Mortimore!

 I have to say, observing from a good distance, that larger steam prototypes seem to be off the radar of most 4mm RTR manufacturers. Hornby aside, with their endless supply of LNER pacifics, most of the others seem to be concentrating on smaller steam locomotives, Industrials, Y7, E1 and 15xx come to mind. Accurascale are giving us a 'Manor', which unfortunately duplicates the Dapol model. Dapol in turn promise a 28/38xx, which duplicates the Hornby model.  I agree with the desire for a K2, K4, E4, J17/9/20 and B16, but there does seem little chance at the moment. Possibly the strangest decision to me is Rapido opting for the HR Jones Goods as a first venture into Scottish RTR. I would have thought the 'Glen' would have been the more obvious choice, wider distribution, longer life in more liveries, but 'twas not to be! For GWR followers the 10xx County and 29xx Saint seem obvious targets but again, no discernable rumours.

 Meanwhile other new manufacturers seem hell-bent on duplicating diesel models that are only a few years old. Not my area of expertise but were the existing models of Class 50,56,60 and 66 all that bad? This does not mean I am anti-diesel, I have supped long at the well of obscure prototypes and pilot scheme designs, but does it indicate that manufacturers see the moving on from the traditional older steam/transition era railway modeller to a younger market more lucrative? In addition, I see that Diesel models are much more attractive for all the DCC bells and whistles, sound, lights etc. which younger more technology savvy people appreciate.

 As I say, this is not meant to be contentious, or the start of a wishlist, just the thoughts of an older modeller on a damp Sunday afternoon in the Antipodes!

Cheers from Oz,

Peter C.

For an indication of where the market is going it’s interesting to look at O gauge RTR which has developed from almost nothing in the last 10-15 years. There are far more diesels than steam with most of the main classes now having been produced. In steam, we have a few yucky GWR tanks and not much else! Ellis Clark’s forthcoming Black 5 is likely to be my first steam RTR purchase although I have bought a couple of small tanks to cut up for their chassis!

A K2 is a long way off - I’ve bought a Gladiator kit to join my kit mountain!

Andy

Gilbert,

If it’s any consolation, you’re not alone. My Virgin media has been down on and off over the last two days. I lost it for best part of a week earlier this year and they tried to tell me there was nothing wrong at their end. They’re a bunch of wasters but I can’t switch as my email address is one of theirs and I can’t face changing it over!

Andy

I don’t think I’ve ever finished a layout - I’m not really a completer finisher. I’m always onto planning the next one once the current one is working. Scenery doesn’t particularly excite me.

Rather than finished, I think ‘exhibition ready’ might be a better way of thinking of it. I.e. technically working, reliable, and sceniced to an acceptable standard, but with some detailing left to do. Quite a lot of layouts make it that far.

Andy

I looked up the 37112 video on your YouTube channel….perfect! I may have to invest in Lok programmer, although it’s expensive. Can one do the same thing on JMRI?

Andy

Tony,

I thought you might say that about the bogies as I know it’s one of your hobbyhorses! I have to say the length really doesn’t bother me. This picture shows the two together. Joan has the correct 10’  wheelbase bogies whereas Car No.77 has the ‘Railroad’ type which I measure at 9’6”. I challenge anyone to spot the difference at speed on the layout. Even side by side it’s difficult to tell the difference in length, although the reduced detail is apparent. What I do find annoying is the indentation by the axles which, I presume, is a relic of the dreadful Triang axles which used to protrude through the plastic. Thankfully mine have proper metal wheels. When I get round to it, I will fill and paint over these indentations.

I take the point about curtains - I will paint some on. Actually the biggest issue with this rake is that the three ‘Railroad’ cars don’t have lit table lamps. I’m not a great fan of lit coaches as I tend to think that such things would not be apparent in daylight. But 7 lit and 3 unlit looks strange. So I either need to disconnect the 7 fitted ones or fit out the other three.  I have bought some DCC concepts table lamps to retrofit the ‘Railroad’ examples, so will probably try that first despite my reservations as I’d rather not ‘vandalise’ my ‘super detail’ Pullmans.

Regards

Andy

I’ll be interested to see how you get on with changing the acceleration cvs. I’ve always shied away from that on sound chips for fear of upsetting the integration of sound and acceleration. Perhaps you could let us know how it goes?

I love the weathering on ‘39. Looks very natural.

Andy

On 12/06/2023 at 17:52, young37215 said:

37027 from Accurascale makes its debut on WHL4. Loco is still running in, everything about it so far is first class. 
 

As ever my video work is average but it does give a flavour of Accurascale’s offering. 

That thrash is perfect! The acceleration seemed a little fast to my eyes though.

7 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Good morning again Andy,

 

Do you have shots of your QoS rake, please?

 

I don't think it's one I photographed on LB.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

Yes…they would have been on my Gresley Jn thread but they will have been lost in the great RNWeb meltdown. So I’ll have to go back on my laptop and see if I can find them. If I can’t it will give me an excuse to run it and take some photos. Give me a day or two.

Andy

The other issue when considering pre Mk 1 ECML Pullman trains is the mix of all steel and earlier vehicles. The all steel Pullmans were originally built in 1928 for the QoS, but later spread around a bit. However the train was still formed with a majority of all steel Pullmans with, typically, 2 or 3 earlier ones. They can normally be identified on photos by the prominent underframe trussing which is absent on the all steel cars. For example the first two vehicles in Tony’s photo of 60117 are earlier vehicles.

The Anthony Ford series of Pullman car books has some example formations from observation in the back. This is what I used to form up my QoS which has three pre 1928 cars. 
 

Hornby do both types of car, but their pre 1928 cars only represent 5 typical cars and there were a lot of variations on window positioning etc. which means some cut and shut to create some of the cars if you want to be pedantic.

Andy

2 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Thanks Andy,

 

Last week, Howard Smith brought over a couple of the new TMC/Bachmann G5s. One was fitted (literally) with all the 'bells and whistles'. Though, as is well known (and widely proclaimed!), Little Bytham does not have DCC control at source, all the 'noises' could be heard as the thing 'chuffed' around, in an arbitrary way. From a (scale) distance of at least a quarter of a mile, even the fireman shovelling coal could be detected. I can never remember hearing that as a real loco went past, especially at a 'distance'; all the other mechanical noises drowned it out. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

I totally agree about the coal shovelling. Of course, with DCC, the operator can decide when to use it. I rarely do, but occasionally give it a burst when the loco is stationary at a station.

Andy

10 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Good evening Andy, 

 

It sounds impressive without DCC sound as well, though I concede that Napier roar is not there. Can it sound like a Deltic without DCC? By that I mean, will any speakers only work on DCC? 

 

All trains on your layout sound good, but the Napier roar would add an extra dimension. In theory DCC sound works on DC, but while it makes some of the right noises they’re often not at the right time and you lose a lot of control. So I wouldn’t recommend it.

Andy

33 minutes ago, Chamby said:

With regard to the cost of RTR products and their level of detail:  Three observations:  

 

Firstly, more established companies have often accumulated more ‘baggage’ over time that adds to their overheads... in-house functions such as finance, marketing and HR, stuff like premises, utilities and consumables all create a fixed cost burden to the company and whilst these are not a cost directly associated with the tooling of an individual product, they still need to be recovered from sales.  Newer companies will be ‘leaner and meaner’ in comparison, carrying a much lower overhead, so are able to turn a profit with lower costs.  They can spend more on tooling the details, because they spend less on other costs.  The likes of Accurascale will no doubt encounter this challenge as they continue to grow and their corporate waistline expands into middle age.

 

Secondly, If you are looking from a normal viewing distance watching a model train run by, you tend not to notice the detail, your appreciation is of the broader picture and higher levels of detail are simply overlooked.  In this scenario, the concept of ‘layout’ loco’s and stock is sound.  However when stood side by side in a siding, or on a slow moving shunting layout, ones eye will linger on the detail and the difference becomes immediately obvious.  So your point of view regarding the worth of added detail will depend very much on the nature of your model railway.

 

Thirdly, there is an optimum level of detail, and a note of caution to those manufacturers lauding the highest levels of detail, and that relates to robustness.  Bits falling off have become more commonplace as the bag of separately applied parts has got bigger, even factory applied detail parts can fall off easily, for example the bogie guard irons of the otherwise superb Accurascale Deltic (which is still my favourite RTR model of all time).   A higher level of detail is pointless if it ends up not being there at all.  Delicate details are great in a display cabinet of course, but not so clever when the product is being regularly handled on a layout.

 

So a vote from me for having the maximum level of detail that can be achieved without compromising the robustness of the product under reasonable everyday handling!

 

 

It’s competition which brings the price down more than anything. I speak as someone who is mainly buying O gauge at the moment (although I did bag an Accurascale Deltic). Heljan O gauge diesels are getting very pricy and we desperately need the competition that is now very prevalent in OO gauge. Thankfully, the price seems to drop after six months when the ‘small shop cartel’ finishes, so I’m now able to afford a second class 27. Dapol stuff is much more reasonably priced, but they have yet to venture into larger locos.

Andy

12 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

 

 

As for your Deltic...............

 

 

The finest model example of this great class I've ever seen (weathering by Geoff Haynes), with incredible performance to boot! So what if this scene is anomalous by five years?

 

It's interesting when visitors come, the most-frequently requested loco to run is your Deltic!

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

It sounds fantastic as well! It takes me back to my 10 year old self on the end of FP with the earth trembling. Magnificent! If that’s doesn’t convince you of the benefits of DCC sound, nothing will.

Andy

Looking great…although shame about the red woodwork!

Great stuff Rob,  I cant wait to see the N7 running!

2 minutes ago, mallaig1983 said:

im just looking at that photo now Andy. 5511 skinhead.

It’s in ‘West Highland Extension’ by John McGregor 

OK, must be the same occasion then - about 35 years too early for my Regional Railways liveried example!

7 hours ago, David Bell said:

You can't have too many Class 27's!

Indeed, but should I go blue, 1970s style or early ‘60s green with SYE. The latter is the more attractive livery IMHO, but not correct without me adding a tablet catcher recess and sliding cab windows.

Andy

3 hours ago, Softvark said:

 

There's a picture of a 31 at Mallaig on the Railscot website - 

Railscot - Class 31 at Mallaig

I’ve seen a picture of one on the Glenfinnan viaduct but definitely back in the green era - maybe the same one although I don’t remember it being a skinhead.

Hmmm, now I do love Deltics. If one of the new Heljan jobs dropped to a similiar price, I might just be tempted, but as a rule I tend to try to resist such flights of fancy. As nobody makes RTR Mk 3s in O gauge and kit building such a rake would take a long time and be very expensive, I think that any Deltic would have to appear on a service train or maybe the SRPS railtour set if I ever get round to building that.

Andy