thegreenhowards

While browsing Rails’ sale, I also noticed that they had reduced some 31s to £285 which seemed too good to be true for 3kg of lovely loco. So I succumbed to one of these as well which I’ve numbered as 31439 ‘North Yorkshire Moors Railway’.



Now I can’t see any possible justification for one of these at Glenfinnan - I think there were only five and during the early ‘90s - rather later than my time period ending in 1987.  But if anyone can find a justification (perhaps a railtour?), you’d make me very happy! Failing that it will be a rule 1 engine for silly days.

Andy

A momentous day yesterday as I ran the first train round the complete circuit in the garden. I had to wire up some of the new boards first, but the modular system I developed last year worked quite well and I just had to put the boards together in a different order. No video yet as I need a second pair of hands for that - hopefully later this week.

The loco chosen for the honour of the first circuit was a new purchase. Rails reduced the price of several O gauge diesels recently which almost tempted me, but they then gave an extra 5% off a couple of weekends ago, and that tipped the balance. So I have a new green FYE class 27. I notice that as of today, Hattons have dropped the price to £442, so I may invest in another!

I’ve numbered this one 5392 based on this photo from Flickr at Fort Bill. I had to choose an ‘English’ one as Heljan have only done these in O gauge and I didn’t fancy cutting the cab side open for a tablet catcher recess. 5392 arrived at ED in 1967.

Now I notice that this one has yellow cabside windows whereas mine has white. Can anyone advise me on when the change from white to yellow took place? I’d like to keep mine white, but if I have to paint it yellow, then I’d better do it before I do the weathering.

Andy

Personally I found Vol 1 of Banks and Carter a truly inspirational read and it is probably what started me down the road of modelling correct formations rather than just putting a few coaches together to form something that might have been a train. I was blissfully aware of the errors until Tony pointed them out and while they are a shame, for me it doesn't detract too much from the utility of the book. I will be in the queue for Vol 2.

Andy

58 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

Thanks Andy,

 

A few points, if I may, please?

 

A3s only carried their worksplates on the cabsides after they received German blinkers. Thus, 60052's should be on the smokebox and 60108 should (probably) have hers on the cabsides. A3s only had their front numberplates lowered to the top hingestrap after receipt of German blinkers, and then not all; so, '52 is incorrect and '108 is probably right. 

 

The deflectors on 60108 are too far back (did the builder use the Beattie drawing, I wonder?). The front edge should be level with the drop down of the footplate at the front, and the rear edge halfway along the superheater header cover. The grate lever is also on the wrong side of 60108 - it was always on the fireman's side, and GAY CRUSADER clearly has (correctly) LH-drive. 

 

Are the front coal division plates on the tenders angled, as first built? By BR days, the front plate on the GNR tenders was vertical. 

 

Apologies if the above appears to be the ramblings of a pedant, but when it comes to ER Pacifics..............

 

If nothing else, your pair of A3s show a very common situation; that of the builder not consulting accurate drawings or observing prototype pictures during their construction. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

Thanks Tony,

I think that you’ve told me about the smoke defectors before - I’ll get round to it eventually I promise! What is the grate lever? Is that the over on the side of the cartezi truck?

Andy 

Tony,

I have a couple of DJH A3s, 60052 and 60108.

Both were eBay purchases for just over £100 and, unusually, both worked fairly well on arrival. I think I had to tweak 60108 as it has American pickups and there were some shorting issues but 60052 worked perfectly. There were certainly some issues with 60108 (single chimney with smoke defectors , banjo dome, lamp iron position and the front buffer beam was a mess), but 60052 is as bought. 60052 has a quiet Portescap while 60108 has a DJH GB1.

One day, I'll get round to weathering 60052!

Andy

I love Diamond Jubilee. Did you have to do a tender swap to get the correct streamlined tender, or have Hornby done one like that?

Andy

I took advantage of a quieter day today to try setting the whole layout up in the garden. This is the first tim3 since I built the hills. These three boards are looking rather bare, but at least they have their protective sandtex coat on. They are noticeably heavier than last time I got them out!
 

The other three boards look a bit more finished, but still plenty of work to do. Next steps will be rhodi on the hill behind the platform waiting shelter, a quick ‘flock over’ of the other three boards and getting the circuit round the  garden complete.

Andy

23 minutes ago, St Enodoc said:

I think it was Jack "Ortogo" Dugdale, years ago, who modelled a bobby on a lever so that when you pulled the handle (or energised a solenoid) he leaned out of the box window holding a flag.

That’s a lovely idea, but you’ll understand if I get the basics working first!

12 hours ago, Jeremy Cumberland said:

I hope you enjoyed Railex. I'd so like to see Kensington Addison Road.

 

The modern signalling diagram posted earlier in this thread just shows an ordinary red disc signal, but the photo of the Black 5 shows something else entirely. Functionally, it is doubtless the same thing and shows only stop and proceed, but exactly what it is and how it works I would not like to guess at. The Black 5 picture also, along with the photo of the lever frame, gives a very strong clue as to operation. As I mentioned before, I wasn't sure whether the signal would clear for both positions of points 10. The plate at the bottom of lever 9 (which doubtless has the numbers 5 and 10 written on it, although it isn't quite clear enough to read) implies that signal 9 can only be cleared when the road is set for exiting from the headshunt into the station (levers 5 and 10 have to be pulled). This is supported by the Black 5 photograph, showing excellent visibility from the signalbox, and so movements from the headshunt towards the yard were doubtless hand signalled past the shunting signal by the signalman showing a green flag from the signalbox. This is also how movements into the headshunt from the platform were signalled, although it is also possible that the signalman just shouted across to the loco crew.

Jeremy,

Many thanks for that description. I think it all makes sense now. I’m hoping that when I buy the kit of the ground signal it will have some prototype notes on how it worked!

I wonder whether I’ll need to pack a green flag with the layout exhibition kit to enable truly prototypical operations!

Regards

Andy

Ok, back to Glenfinnan.
 

Rob, thanks for your photos, I was hoping you might have the answer in your fantastic archives. I had seen and wondered about  the little post in your 37 photos, but dismissed it as a milepost is similar as it looked too rectangular. However, the Black 5 picture is just what I needed and @03060’s blow up makes it even more clear that this is the beast I’m after. Thanks to John for the detective work - if only Andrew from Wizard had been there yesterday like he used to be! Looks like I’ll have to put a postal order in as I also need a finial which I seem to have lost from his kits of the lattice home signals. But I do hate paying postage!

Thanks also to Rob for the engineering train photo. I allow myself up to RETB introduction, so 1987 is just OK. Are they concrete sleepers in the first two opens? I have bought some Peco individualay ones to allow me to create such a load in my Turbots based on a photo which Al Tait came up with on the MIOG group.

Andy

Thanks for all your replies yesterday. Railex was very good. It’s always been a cut above the rest in terms of the quality of layouts and traders, but I think this year was even better than other I remember. The only criticisms were the heat and catering, not directly the fault of the organisers. I lasted until 1630 despite intending to leave earlier to get home for the championship play off final, but I had to admit defeat at that stage from fear of heat exhaustion!

Standout layouts for me were:

Charwellton into the ‘80s, a what if GC main line roundy roundy with diesels and credible formations all weathered to a uniform high standard.

Grindly Brook, A large 0 gauge transition era roundy roundy nicely signalled and scenicised and excellent reliable operations. Again, good weathering, but not as consistent as Charwelton.

Hope under Dinmore, pre grouping LNWR/GWR joint with unusual stock well executed.

Wendover, 1920s, GCML with interesting rolling stock of varied ages - some X04 type growlers, but again lovely to see mainly kit built locos and stock.

And last, but certainly not least, Addison Road. 1920s Kensington Olympia under its old name with cross London trains and wonderful scratch built Oerlikon electric units which actually arc in the third rai!  Jeremy you must get yourself to see this masterpiece. It was my third time but I was still transfixed. The LBSCR I3 with lined LNWR coaches on the sunny south express is an absolute joy.

The traders were also very good. No box shifters and only one selling overpriced ‘tat’. The majority were cottage industry types selling interesting modelling products and really interesting to talk to. I spent too much as normal. For Glenfinnan, it was mainly more scenic materials including heather clumps from WWS which you’ll be seeing shortly. And some bouncing signal servo mechanisms from Dingo servo mounts for the two lattice signals I built before Dapol brought theirs out.

So by the time I got home from that and watched the play off final before I found out the result (I’d taken the precaution of recording it), it was too late to think about this thread so I’ll respond in my next post.

Andy

Thanks Jeremy,

It’s becoming clearer now. So in photos, I should be looking for a small ground based stop disk on the headshunt near the point controlling access back to the mainline? How would moves onto the headshunt from the down platform have been signalled?

As for your photo, a useful reference but it rather spoils the 5,4,3,2,1 elegance!

I’m off to Railex now, so won’t post again until this evening. If anyone’s going, let me know.

Andy

Jeremy,

Many thanks for your comprehensive reply. I’m still trying to get my head around all of the points you make, not being a signalling expert myself. 
 

One question for now, if I may. What is a stop signal? I.e. how does it differ from a shunt signal or home signal? I’ve no idea what it would look like and don’t remember seeing it in any of the photos I’ve collected of Glenfinnan. 
 

Regards

Andy

Thanks Rob, I don’t think I’ll match your scenic abilities but I’m pleased that it’s starting to look like the prototype from a suitable distance. I’ve struggled with the subtleties of replicating rhododendrons and gorse,

As for the signalling, it looks 6,7&8 were spare for future expansion which never happened. I may use them for the fiddle yard.

I had always wondered about the slightly perverse looking numbering, but having seen your lower photo, it all makes sense. That’s quite neat pulling 5,4,3,2,1 in one direction and 11,12,13,14,15 in the other. I assume 4 and 12 were facing point locks?

I find it surprising that point 10 was controlled by the signal box, but the point by the dock was not - presumably a point lever locally situated. Any idea why that would be?

Would 9 be a shunt signal back onto the down platform? If so would shunts into the dock be hand signalled? I’ll look up Robert Dey in due course, thanks for the tip.

Andy

I’ve been concentrating on one board to try and get it finished scenically and I think I’m nearly there. Here is the bogies from the station end graced by a lovely Primo larch tree which is a distinctive feature of the prototype photos.

At the other end, the Intentio lineside hut finishes it off nicely.

In other news, I have resolved how I’m going to do point and signal control. I was serving on the bring and buy stand at the Gauge O Guild Kempton Park show last Saturday and this rather lovely lever frame arrived. So I snapped it up before it even went on offer to the public.

The levers are all functioning signal frame levels - just like the real thing! On the business end there is a bank of DPDT switches which can control Dapol signals or Tortoise point motors.
 

I’d like them to control my DCC Cobalts, but I may have to swap them out for Tortoises unless anyone can think of a way. My plan is to use the original signal diagram for Glenfinnan as below and use the correct numbered levers. What 6,7&8 did, I have no idea!

I intend to bury the lever frame behind the hillside, roughly where the grey patch is on this photo.

By the way this shows the hillside painted in Sandtex as recommended by Paul. I bought two testor pots in light brown and grey and they’ve done three boards with a tiny bit left over.

Andy

We were graced by a visit by William Ascough of Ace Prodcts tonight and he brought a couple of his locos to run - a GNR K3 and a Southern K. Here is the K3 posed with my GNR liveried C12.

And here is the K class.

Rob has made a roof for his signal box and detailed the interior. Here is my attempt at an arty shot from inside.

Andy

I have formed the hillsides on the Fort William end board today and applied mod roc to the next board as well. The route blasted through a rock cutting just east of Glenfinnan and I formed this from Woodland Scenics shaper sheet as shown below.

Here are the two boards with the plaster drying

Andy

28 minutes ago, 31A said:

Thanks Andy, yes I think that's the gist of what Peter Townend said in his book; apparently even the L1s weren't quite up to that task so they cast around for other powerful tank engines to try to find a solution.  I suppose not long afterwards, dieselisation would have provided the answer.

 

Anyway, it was a good excuse to buy the model!

Yes, I have a half built 52f kit with the same excuse!

Steve,

I believe 69814 went to the cross to haul sleeper ECS which the N2s struggled with over the Ferme Park flyover. I don’t think the trial was a great success as it didn’t last long!

Andy

Thanks for the suggestion Paul. I’m not sure I have the patience for a controlled experiment, but I’ve bought a couple of testor pots and will see how it works on as many boards as they will cover.

I’ll also be interested (😬) to see how the layout deals with being outside. The scenic boards will only be outside for short periods in dry weather and will be stored in the garage in between. The board I showed is the one with fibre glass hillsides. The others may need more protection but I was hoping waterproof PVA would seal them.

Andy

Rob brought his 3D printed signal box along tonight. I think it really looks the biz and neatly covers up the gem levers which we use to control points and signals.

It’s still missing a roof which will come when he’s fixed the right printer for it. The rest of us are petrified to touch it as those handrails look very delicate!

I’ve started populating the cuttings with shrubs, I think they were mainly gorse and Rhododendron. My attempt at gorse is in the foreground. The taller bushes behind will be Rhody when I get some magenta scatter for the flowers (I’m setting the layout in late spring) and further along are bare shrubs waiting for foliage to be added. The rubberised horse hair will need trimming. Comments welcome.

Paul,

I’ve just finished reading through your thread having been put onto it when you commented on my Glenfinnan thread. I love the concept…and the execution to date. The list of timelines is very useful, I will be referring to that in future!

I found myself wanting to reply on things and then remembering that the original post was a year ago and in fact most of the comments I would have made (e.g. side platforms at Ranochan) were addressed later in the thread.

I see you’ve managed to justify quite a bit of goods traffic. I was trying to be good and limit myself to what I have pictures of - i.e. tail traffic on the tea time train of oil tankers, Interfrigos and steel carriers. I was going to go back to the ‘60s for more varied goods traffic. But I am itching to use my Heljan cargowaggons, so I may succumb to an imaginary naval base type excuse!

I look forward to following your progress.

Andy