thegreenhowards

Tony, Andrew, Firstly apologies for the double post yesterday - having lost my iPad, I'm getting used to rmweb on a smartphone and it isn't easy with podgy fingers! Many thanks for your help and those wonderful pictures. I was actually thinking of the non corridor twins as Andrew guessed although it was lovely to see the steel corridor pictures as well. I have a set of those for a King's Cross to Peterbrough semi. I've just built a twin First/ third 51' set (d.124/6) and it is these which I'm particularly puzzling about at the moment. I believe that when they were introduced they worked as an 8 set (4 twins) on outer suburbans from Kings Cross formed (from memory) as BT-T, T-F, T-CL, CL-BT. But I've never seen a picture of this formation, or indeed, any of these 51' twins post war. I've seen pictures of the later 55' BT- T d.210 twins post war, but not the shorter ones. While my timeframe majors on late 50s, I stretch it either way for interesting stock, so if I could find any justification for using these in BR days I'd be very happy! My suspicion is that they moved away from the GN when the mark 1s arrived, but I have no evidence for that. Any intelligence very welcome! Regards Andy

Andrew, I'm catching up on this rather late due to being on holiday and having my iPad stolen I have to say that I found vol 1 inspirational despite its problems (of which I was blissfully unaware at the time!). It's encouraged me to build several accurate rakes which I wouldn't have known how to do before. It also introduced me (indirectly) to this thread and Robert's CWNs through follow up research. I'm looking forward to vol 2 particularly as I'm really hoping to find out how Kings Cross suburban worked in the pre mark 1 days. I've seen lots of stuff about mark 1 rakes and quad arts, plus some tantalising glimpses of twin arts, but I really don't understand where all the twin arts worked! Surely the more of this sort of book, the better?! Regards Andy

Andrew, I'm catching up on this rather late due to being on holiday and having my iPad stolen I have to say that I found vol 1 inspirational despite its problems (of which I was blissfully unaware at the time!). It's encouraged me to build several accurate rakes which I wouldn't have known how to do before. It also introduced me (indirectly) to this thread and Robert's CWNs through follow up research. I'm looking forward to vol 2 particularly as I'm really hoping to find out how Kings Cross suburban worked in the pre mark 1 days. I've seen lots of stuff about mark 1 rakes and quad arts, plus some tantalising glimpses of twin arts, but I really don't understand where all the twin arts worked! Surely the more of this sort of book, the better?! Regards Andy

I know the problem. That's probably why I spotted it! I've solved it by creating a 1963 version of the Flying Scotsman and swapping all the commonwealth bogies onto that rake. Not so easy when you're as disciplined in time frame as you are. Andy

It's a lovely prototype to model and Gilbert's take on it looks magnificent. I completed mine a year or two ago but my twin FOs are Mailcoach and not to Gilbert's standard. By way of contructive criticism I don't think commonwealth bogies were around in 1958, so you could really do with replacing those on the CK. Having said this I stand to be corrected by Gilbert's evidence bank! Andy

I'm certainly in that camp and have a box of non running teenage kits which I may get back to one day! For me, I didn't abandon kits completely but went for the 'white metal body on rtr chassis' approach which has served me well ( when there is an appropriate chassis available). My recent A2/2 build with Tony's help has made me determined to try another chassis, and I'm just starting on a SE finecast K3. I'm far from convinced that it will run well and I may have to see if I can twist Tony's arm for a few tweaks. My experience with kits bought second hand is that even if they work first of all, they will go wrong at some stage, and if you didn't build it yourself, it's much more difficult to know how to fix it.

Arthur, That's beautiful! Tony did say to me that he would have started from scratch rather than cut up Kirk kits - but he was talking brass! I don't think I'd have the patience to cut out all those windows. Regards Andy

Thanks Tony, for your kind words and to you and Mo for hosting me again. Ellen was really chuffed with your comments! As for my efforts, I will describe them in turn. I'm not sure how to embed any comments with the pictures above, so I'm afraid those interested will have to scroll up. 'The Wolf' is the A2/2 that some of you will remember Tony helped me get started earlier this year. I had finished her (bar the painting) to the point where she run beautifully as a chassis or an 0-6-2 with the body on, but the front bogie didn't agree with the body! Tony told me I had far too much slop (I think he meant the model!), and proceeded to solder washers onto the bogie attachment bar together with creating a shouldered bolt so that it fitted precisely, as well as using the washer to move the bogie back c.1mm so that it lined up with the wheel arches and didn't foul the front footsteps - now it runs superbly as a 4-6-2. To say I'm delighted with it would be an understatement - I have built many white metal bodies before, but never made a chassis work, nor dealt with brass/ white metal combos, so I've learnt a lot. The 1935 steel artics are Mousa sides on Hornby Gresley shorty bodies. I found this a very easy and cost effective combo, although if I were to do them again I'd pay more attention to the underframe which isn't quite right. The Artic sleepers are still work in progress, but are a d.161/2 pair as ran in the Aberdonian from the mid '30s to the late '50s. These are created from cut and shut Kirk kits and while they are not up to Brass kit standards, I'm really pleased with them as they are a very rare coach to see modelled (there were only two prototypes ever built and I've never seen one modelled), and the third class took a very large number of cuts - see below. Many thanks to Andrew (Headstock) and Jonathon Weallans for their help in sourcing prototype info. Andrew it was good to meet you at Quorn - did you say that you'd found another prototype photo? E3083 is a Doncaster Mk 1 prototype FO as ran in the 2.10pm King's Cross - York and Hull in the late '50s. It is made from Southern Pride sides and a old style Hornby Mk 1 donor. I brought it along to illustrate a really easy and cost effective way of building some rare Mk1 coaches, as the sides come pre-printed, so all you have to do is remove the screws in the bottom of the donor coach, replace the sides which are a direct replacement - no glue or cutting necessary, then add a number and some brass door handles which can be superglued in. This has the potential to go wrong if you are as clumsy as me as I got superglue on one of the windows, but it's not too evident. Then a few changes to the roof vents and an interior and it's finished. At under £5 for a donor (typical second hand price) and £6.50 for the sides from Southern Pride, I think this is a really good value and easy coach conversion. I've done several BSO's and a couple of prototypes. Finally, E1767E is a Thompson sleeper and will form part of my Aberdonian rake. It's made from Bill Bedford sides on a pair of Hornby Gresley Shorty chassis, but and shut to 66' length. Underframe details are a mixture of Kirk and MJT. I'm really pleased with the way this has turned out - it's so much easier painting maroon than masking for crimson and cream!

After a very enjoyable but wallet lightening day at Tony's today, I could add a (slightly tatty) Coronation and a (rather splendid) Silver Jubilee to the mix!

We really need both types of quad art, as they always ran in 8 car formations with one of each type in the rake. They were fixed in their formations with one set number covering the whole 8 car rake. I like the articulation idea, but it depends on the market. My Kirk set runs fine using their articulation system with minimal gaps between coaches, but I have a minimum radius of 30". I don't suppose it would go round Hornby set track! I need a second set and a decent N2, so I'm interested if and when it happens. Regards Andy

Tim, Gilbert, A lovely and inspirational rake. I really appreciate seeing the coaches behind the engines (as you know!). The roofs all look very consistent in weathering whereas the Hornby originals will (I think) have varied between pristine white, through off white to dark grey. How did you achieve the uniform weathering? Andy

They're great photos. I particularly love the sleeper first as I've never seen a photo of the berth side of one of these before. It's a coach I'd love to build a model of, but there seems to be no side etches available, so rather difficult! Please post more - perhaps on a separate thread as others have said.

I'd also choose Kings Cross, but slightly earlier. 20/9/53 to see the Plant Centenarian rail tour with 251 and Henry Oakley as well as the usual parade of Pacifics.

I was at a presentation given by DCC Concepts (nothing to do with DCC in this context) last week, and they mentioned that they intend to bring out a range of working point rodding. I think the intention is that the rodding would activate one of their new mini point motors connected to the point, but I may have got that bit wrong as I'm afraid this level of detail is a long way off for me! If it's anything like their normal standards, it will work well and be easy to install, but whether it will be scale as well I don't know, and I don't imagine it will be cheap! No connection etc... Andy

Tony, I think 'Chris P Bacon' is right on the price. If it's still available I'll offer £150. Totally out of period for me, but I'd love a set as a novelty! Regards Andy

Gilbert, That looks fantastic Did It involve a respray or was it some form of Tim wizardry with polish/ varnish? Andy

Will you have your train headboards with you at Bracknell (the Aberdonian, Talisman, Flying Scotsman etc.)? Regards Andy

After this experience, I have to agree with you! I hadn't appreciated Neil's point that a dead chassis is a definitive instruction for DCC rather than best practice. We'll see how I get on with the A2/1 now. As for Cartazzi, I blame the iPad auto spell corrector(!), but I still should have noticed

Thanks Jonathan, I think the wire was causing the problem, so I would need to fit them on plastic rod, but they sound promising. Andy

Tony, Interesting that the the DCC problems should come up again just as I have finally sorted out the A2/1that you helped me fix when I came to stay. It ran ok on DC, but that was obviously hiding a multitude of micro shorts as I could not persuade it to shift more than a few cms on DCC. I fixed the following shorts. Tender wheels on tender body. Sorted with a shim of platicard to isolate tender body and some filing on the wheel slots in the body which are invisible. Front steps on loco, fixed by very minor bending of the steps. Tender to loco coupling bar shorting against rear of Cartesian truck. Fixed by filing both articles back. And most significantly, the loco brake gear on the driving wheels where the clearances were microscopic. This has been fixed by the drastic step of removing the brake gear! So I now have a sweet running loco, but need to find a solution to the brake gear, possibly by using a plastic RTR version. Has anyone had similar experiences converting American pick up locos to DCC? Any tips gratefully received! Thanks Andy

I love the Norseman stock Gilbert! It makes a nice change to have a named train formed of a large proportion of LNER stock. Didn't it have a triplet in the formation on some days? Andy

I attach a video of my latest modelling. Many of you will remember the somewhat long winded discussion I instigated on here about The Aberdonian. That train is still a few months off being ready, but the latest Bachmann Thompson's have allowed me to finish my first ECML overnight train, The Car Sleeper Limited. I attach a video of it progressing round my layout over my 'tribute to' Welwyn viaduct. I'm afraid the video is not up to some of your standards (my son did it on his iPhone), but it does show the complete train, and demonstrates that, with a bit of weight, a Hornby A3 can pull a good load. Fort those interested the consist is: ​10* long CCT (Hornby renumbered and weathered) Mk1 BSO (Southern Pride sides on Train Hornby donor) TSO (Bachmann) 3*SLT (Kirk) BSK (Bachmann) This is correct as per the summer '56 carriage workings and a good picture in the Banks/ Carter book. Sorry for the DCC sound for those whom it offends! IMG_5353.MOV

Love the fish train Gilbert. I always like to see what's behind the loco.

Tony, Please don't go! Reading this thread is a daily tonic, and I would miss it sorely. I understand that it takes a lot of time and, as you say, it will probably rumble on for a while without you. But I think it would slowly stagnate without an occasional ' hand on the tiller'. Why not limit yourself to a occasional (every week or two) update on your modelling or thoughts to keep the debate fresh, and don't feel the need to respond to other people's posts. There are plenty of others on here to do that! Obviously your decision...but it would leave a big gap. Andy

I can't claim to remember it, but such a vehicle was shown in the carriage workings for many years. It served dinner for the Aberdonian punters, and was detached at York and returned empty. By the early sixties this was a Mark 1, but for most, if not all, of the fifties it was a rather unusual Gresley D.11 restaurant car which had a larger saloon and smaller kitchen than the standard D.10C. No kit is available AFAIK, but I'm trying to work out whether one can cut and shut Kirk kits to produce one. In the '57/58 period when the Aberdonian title switched to a later train, I think this Restaurant car duty disappeared. Andy