thegreenhowards

Thanks Andrew, I agree prototype photos are the best source of such info, but they're few and far between for coaches in the 1950s. Phil has got his torpedo vents right as there is a prototype photo of 1401/2/3 in the Steve Banks Model Rail article from 2006 (but I think he should have recessed doors at the extreme ends as this is a 1924 set - sorry Phil/ Gilbert!). I'm going to base mine on 1416/7/8 in the 1950s which was one of the Louis XIV sets for the 1928 Scotsman. There are plenty of photos of this set when it was new, and it clearly doesn't have the torpedo vents, just the two rectangular (Mike Trice / Shapeways) types. I just have to hope that the torpedo vents weren't a later addition, but this seems unlikely (I hope!). Andy

Phil, I already have a pack following your recommendation a few weeks back. They're already looking good on the kitchen car and will follow on the two dining cars. Thanks Andy

Thanks Mike, what a useful thread, thanks for the link. I'm now clear that for the 1928 diagram 12A/13/14A set that I'm building there should only be the large rectangular vents on the two dining cars, so I will have to strip off all the torpedo vents that I labouriously glued on! I'm still not sure which sets did have the torpedo vents as well on the two dining cars, although I stil suspect that it was the 1924 sets. Regards Andy

I am close to finishing my Kirk triplet and I'm struggling with the roof details. Can I request some advice from the assembled experts. The Kirk instructions show torpedo vents with two rectangular 'LNER Catering' type vents roughly as shown in the attached photo. Whereas other sources show just the two rectangular vents spaced slightly further apart. Photos that I've found (eg the Model Rail April 2006 article) seem to show both types of vents. From a small sample of photos, I guess that the torpedo vents are correct for the 1924 sets, while the wider spaced rectangular vents are correct for the 1928 sets. Can anyone confirm or correct this interpretation? Also are these rectangular vents the same as those available on the Mike Trice shapeways shop? Many thanks Andy

I have a similar set ex John Houlden. I believe they were Rupert Brown (now RDEB via Wizard models) etches, however they're not listed on the Wizard site as far as I can see. Mousa/ Bill Bedford list an etch on extended delivery ( which I think means he has to do some work to recommission it). http://www.mousa.biz/fourmm/coach/etches/LNER/lner_other4.html. (No connection except as a satisfied customer). This is probably the best bet for now. Cheers Andy

Thanks Tony (and Mike for confirming). I agree with your comments about what we build models for. For me, the research is part of the fun, but the end game is having a model which can look impressive running in a scale length train. The exact details don't really matter. So I try to get it right when I'm building something, and enjoy that part, but if I find out that somethings wrong once I've finished, then I'm unlikely to bother to fix it later. Similarly if something's a disproportionate amount of work, and unlikely to be noticed, I may 'blind eye' it. Now, as I'm free to build the 1928 triplet, I think I'll have a go at one of the Louis XIV sets. Harris says these were green in first and blue in third originally. Does anyone know if that was still the case by the 1950s? Regards Andy

Tony and other experts, I've been doing some research on the 1924 and 1928 triplets with regard to recessed doors. The best information I could find is in the Campling Historic Carriage Drawings book (p46-48). This states that the earlier sets had the recessed doors. This is confirmed by a picture of number 16493 from a 1928 set (p46) which clearly doesn't have a recessed door. There are pictures of a complete 1924 and 1928 set, and while it's more difficult to make out on these photos, I have managed to convince myself that the 1924 doors were recessed, while the 1928 set doors were not. So my understanding is that both sets were built to more or less the same basic body width. Harris in 'LNER Standard Gresley coaches' shows 8'11.25" for the 1924 sets and 9'0" for the 1928 sets. However the door handles sticking out would have caused the 1924 sets to exceed the then prevailing loading gauge limit of 9'0", hence they were recessed. By 1928, the loading gauge had changed to allow 9'3" maximum width, so the doors didn't have to be recessed. On this basis, my Kirk kit (which is not recessed) would be best suited to a 1928 set. Does this sound plausible, or have I misunderstood things completely?! Regards Andy

Hi Tony, Yes I've sorted the V2 thanks. It turned out to be caused by the white metal at the top (rather than the side) of the Cartezi truck which needed 2-3mm filed off. I attach a crude iPad photo which I rushed out this morning before work! If you can make out the insulating tape, that is where I needed to file it back. I've also bought the two decoder for the V2 and A2/1, so I will be in contact for a bit of tuition on how to fit a decider to loco with an American style pick ups once I've got the kids back to school (if that's still OK).

An inspirational set of coaches Tony. Thanks for sharing. I'm currently finishing off a Kirk triplet. Does anyone know whether that is accurate for 1924 or 1928 (or neither!)? The instructions seem to imply both can be modelled. Thanks Andy

I haven't tried Comet Gresleys yet - just their Thomsons which come pre-curved. How do the comets compare with Mousa and MJT for ease? I've got a Comet triplet staring at me from the roundtuit pile, but of course, that won't be on Hornby donor sides. I think I also cheat as I file the ends down, but don't bother along the side of the chassis. So far I've tried to give my Hornby conversions the correct turnunder, at least at the ends, and I don't find it a problem as they tend to work in separate rakes. Conversions in mainline rakes, while Hornby side door stock works on outer suburban rakes. If they have to mic, then I find a mark 1 or a Thomson in between hides the difference. What I was really trying to say is let's not knock Hornby (especially when they're down!). I came back to modelling three years ago after 30 years, and the quality of RTR is phenomenal compared to what we used to have. When I saw them, I was bowled over by the Gresleys after the shorties we used to put up with and I still think they're lovely coaches, albeit not perfect. (No connection with Hornby etc...) Andy

Love the Gresley conversions Gilbert. Do you happen to know the origin of the sides? I'm midway through an MJT CK and a Mousa BSK(5). I'm struggling to work out which I prefer. MJT's window drop lights with inbuilt hinges are very convenient, but the Mousa sides have drop lights ready installed and less soldering to do on the sides. I have to say the Hornby coach looks good as well from the side. I recognise the lack of turnunder, but this is not very visible in a rake of coaches. For me, I won't be replacing Hornby sides for the diagrams they make, just to increase the range. So I have a lot of Hornby side door SKs etc. running around with which I'm happy enough. Andy

Hi Tony, They're lovely coaches. I'm tempted by the MJT kitchen car, but I'm not sure what they worked by the late fifties. There are very few kitchen cars in the carriage workings, and I assumed those that are shown were Thompson's. What do you intend to use yours on? Regards Andy

Thanks. The paint finish is none too good, but I'm quite pleased overall. Yes, by railroad shorties I mean the old Hornby too short Gresleys. I guess they used to be main range and poor, and are now railroad. Andy

Phil, I did mine using Mousa sides on Hornby Railroad shorties. It was quite straightforward if rather time consuming. The shorties are just the right length once you've cut off the domed end. The most difficult bit was dealing with the inset brake end, and filing down the chassis to match. I've now got two more sets of sides in the roundtuit pile to make up a full full car set. Good luck! Andy

Phil, That sounds interesting...but what is SOSJ?! Excuse my ignorance! Andy

Some of you may remember my problems with car aerosols on my Graeme King W1 conversion way back in February (post 9114). Well thanks for all your advice and I'm pleased to report that I managed to sort it out with just a partial strip back and repaint. The finished article is now up and running. Thanks to Tony for the curly 6 for the front numberplate...and to Graeme of course for the excellent resin bits.

Slightly earlier than your period, but in the early 50s I think you would have seen all three at Finsbury Park. The c12 on the Ally Pally shuttle and D16s and B17s were fairly regular on the Cambridge Kings Cross services then. That's my excuse for having all three anyway! Andy

I know what you mean...I bought two sets from MJT last weekend. I wonder when they'll get built!

The Hornby Sleeper underframe would explain it. These (and some BGs) have different bogies with two lines of rivets above the axle box. I think this is Hornby's attempt at a heavy duty bogie, but as far as I can see there are no other differences...so not very heavy duty! I used the sleeper underframe for my restaurant car, and I'm trying to get away with the Hornby bogie! Andy

Lovely coaches Gilbert, could you tell us how you sourced them? I am intrigued by what looks like a heavy duty bogie on the front BSK. Is that prototypical or just what happened to be in the spares box?! Andy

While we're talking about whited out windows, can anyone give me a definitive answer on when windows were white, and when they were frosted?

I actually looked at that picture on Tony's forum and decided that the drop light was down! Thanks for the correction - easily fixed. Phil, the first class sausages are from Modelmaster (ref 4430). I find them easy to fit and pretty robust. Andy

Outside fitted - Inside is far too fidlly for me!

Phil/ Gilbert, I've now had time to get the big camera out and take some decent fots. Unfortunately this shows up my slightly dodgy workmanship (3ft rule applies!), but I hope it gives you a clear view of (my interpretation of) the roof layout. I borrowed heavily on a discussion on LNER Forum as below: http://www.lner.info/forums/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=7030&p=63787&hilit=further+d10c+restaurant+car+question#p63787 This has some useful roof diagrams posted by Mike Trice, but there is still some interpretation especially as it seems to have changed post war. Let me know if you conclude something different to me. Cheers Andy

Will do Phil, I've been at Expo EM today buying rather too many Bill Bedford sides, and I've got family round tomorrow, so will probably be tomorrow evening before I can get some decent photos. I'll also try and dig out the links on LNER Forum which I used to put the roof detail together - there was some excellent stuff from Mike Trice. Cheers Andy