DaveClass47

I watched a video on Your Tube the other day of HST's along Dawlish ans Teignmouth and 2 of them seemed to have a full yellow stripe on the TRFB. I think it was only the Western region sets that did this but I could be wrong. 

 

Theres a clip in this at 1.10min 

I found an image on flickr with a full yellow band.  But this must have been rare.... a more sensible approach would have been to make it half yellow and half grey.  Or better still yellow and red!   But I bet no one can find a MK3 buffet coach with no roof vent detail! ;-(

Dave

Hi folks,

I see that the latest release of the Hornby MK3 Buffet car has appeared in the shops.  

It has a full yellow banding along its length, ie no red band above the buffet part of the coach.   I know the era for this particular release is a later one, ie 1990's (the power cars have the new over head warning flashes and the coaches the orange door locking lights).   But did HST MK3 ever run with a full length yellow banding along the top of the coach/roof?

I also see Hornby have released it with a plain roof.   no roof vent detailing.   When will they learn?.....they managed to give us the ECML Virgin coach with correct roof detailing, so why not this? sigh!

Anyway, any help on the yellow band would be appreciated.

Thanks.

Hi,

I have Peco diamond crossings on my Dean Park layout.   However over time the tiny thin insulating plastic at the frogs has worn away....therefore rails with the opposite polarity are close.  When I runs some rolling stock (mainly Hornby MK3 coaches) over the crossing I can get a split second short or spark from the wheel bridging the polarity gap.  I also notice it when a sound loco goes over it and can have a split second cut out of the sound!  Apart from that all Bachmann stock and 99% of locos run over it with out issue

It can be fixed by slipping a thin piece of plastic (made from a tiny thin slice of a Peco sleeper) into the gap to keep the frog part apart.   However someone suggested non conductive paint/Insulating paint.   Is there such a thing?  If so, where can I source it??

Thanks

Dave  

whoa...

don't be too hasty.

 

it does look too light, but i'll reserve my judgement until I've compared both the Oxford models with my photo collection (I have several images from the early - mid 90s).

 

but in the pictures above your comparing mid-late 1980s British Rail intercity 'Executive' livery (c1983-1987, but lived onto the 90's), against 1987-1996s Sectorised Intercity 'Swallow' livery. I always personally remembered comparing BA Swallow white as a silver white, like Concorde, where as the earlier grey livery was more drab. The Dark Grey on Swallow livery was more of a black too where as Executive dark grey was precisely that.

 

There are differences, but the Oxford coach is quite definitely a period 8-10 years later than the coach parked next to it.  I don't recall ever seeing 'Manchester Pullman' Intercity stock still being named by 'Swallow' times.

 

The Oxford coach has the 1990's features right.. Orange Cantrail, CDL locking etc.. the Manchester Pullman picture is pre-CDL and pre-Orange Cantrails, the Intercity font is the earlier style and the number will probably be large with an 'M' prefix too.

 

There is one feature that modellers should consider to add to these models that is just crying to be added.. I've got a stash of  nearly 100 different originals in my office collected from my traveling spotting jaunts.. (I'll leave that teaser till the am)...

 

I think your right, in being too light, but the comparison should at least be Apples for Apples and compare the same liveries.

Hi!,

Oh, I am not meaning to be hasty.  As I said in my youtube review, its a good coach and very well made and executed.  I will be getting more as they will look good behind a Class 87 and 90!

Regarding the image; unfortunately It was one of the few images that I could find of a loco hauled MK3a online that wasn't property of someone.   But it does show the difference in side colour.   The addition of a cantrail and the swapping over of some writing on the side did not always mean a complete re-paint.   Most MK3 coaches simply got the INTERCITY swallow italic writing put on in place of the executive 'inter-city 125' lettering.  Small details on the coaches from the mid 80's to the 90's did occur however.  As I said in my youtube review, there are conflicting images of MK3a showing anything from very light grey to beige.

"Good model of the MK3A....but not a great one" as someone I spoke to in my local model shop summed it up.

Right I got my Oxford coaches today.  Was really looking forward to them and I have to say they are a good product.

Plus points:

the shape is spot on.

The end detail is superb. I mean SUPERB.  

The interiors detail is great.

Wheel details are there (even if they look chunky)

Bogies are really well moulded.

Coupler mechanism is impressive

Niggles:

Those silly separately fitted door steps.....they all fell off!!!

The colour of the intercity grey/beige.  Its just too grey. Its not right!  See photos.   I knew it wouldn't match the real ones....Hornby have come closest to this in my opinion

The toilet windows are incorrect.  The hand painted pre delivery ones had white painted loo windows.  The production ones show the white behind the tinted glass.  Wrong and looks weird.

The grab rails on the roof panel are a nice touch, but they are over scale.

The ribs on the MK3 roof....they are tiny.  Not deep enough.

No aluminium rim around the windows as per the prototype.

With the tension lock couplers in place the gap is actually wider than that on a Hornby MK3!!

The central door locking light dates it to after 1993....pity as I model the late 1980's!

I am doing an review on my youtube channel and give a warts n all opinion on them.   Great value for money though!   Good try Oxford!   Hopefully when you merge with Hornby we will get your mouldings, couplers but with correct coloured livery, roof detail and correct loo windows! lol

Will it kill off the Hornby MK3?....No.   Its not faultless, just like the Hornby one!   Still a place for both. 

See both photos....one showing a real MK3A (in Pullman legend intercity) and the other my Oxford one at Dean Park Station.   Now you tell me that the livery is correct? lol

I feel happy they have done a good job, but disappointed that its not fault free!  See my review here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kKrpzQc6FpE

If Bachmann don't get a move on then the cost increases may make the 158 too expensive.  

I predict (looking into my OO Gauge Crystal ball) that they will 'attempt' to sell it for £300+ by adding detail like we are seeing on their MK2f's.   When will it arrive.....2020!   A whopping 7 years after I placed my pre order lol. 

And don't get me started on predicting the arrival of the class 90's.....it may take a few more years   By which time Hornby will have done 1-2 runs of their forthcoming Class 87 and will have probably re-tooled the 91 as well by then, leaving Bachmann a bit behind in the AC electrics race.

At least by the time they do arrive my layout might be 'finished'!!   I will wait....it give me something to look forward to (I just have to stay off ebay...failing on that front just now!)

Hi Dave,

 

What is it that you want to happen and when ?

 

Do you just want the lighting to be directional with the ability to operate the halo lights indipandently ?? Or are you wanting something else ??

Hi Anthony,

Ok, I want the Halo lights to work in both directions, but at the moment it only works at the rear (with the red lights on as well at the same end!!).

I have worked out:

F0 Lights on.  

F0 and F1 gives me the number one end white with the trailing end red.  Or if the number 2 end is going forward (by changing direction on my elite controller) it has both ends red lights

F0 and F2 gives me the number two end white with the trailing number one end red.   Or if the number 1 end is going forward (by changing direction on my elite) both ends are white lights.

So toggling between F0 and F1 or F0 and F2 gives me an array of possibilities.   Which I think is correct?!

However.....the Halos!    If I press F6 function key the halos come on at the number 2 end, but only at the trailing end with the red lights.   Should that happen?    What are the halo lights for?    But this is where it gets even more confusing.....if I switch direction or try anything else the halos will not work in any manner at the number 1 end.

Confused?   I am! lol

Part of my wants just to use the loco as a two function loco, with white lights going forward, red lights at the back.  The cab light comes on in the direction of travel.

To answer your question...I want the halo lights to operate independently in either direction. ;-)

Dave

I don't think they are issues. The lights are all pretty much independent so you can configure them as you need, different functions operating different lights.

 

Roy

Yeah but how to do it when the decoder instructions are in German!  That's my issue! ;-)

Hi folks.

Got myself a Dapol 68.   Bought a ESU Lokpilot V4 21pin MTU.  One of the ones that's on the recommended list in the Dapol instructions!

I use a Hornby Elite controller.

I am totally confused.   With switch 3 on the PCB board in the 4/6 function decoder setting I can have head lights, both ends white lights, both ends red lights, halo lights at the rear, cab lights on and off....I don't know what the heck I am doing to be honest.

Anyone else had these issues? 

If I use it in DC/2 function mode with switch 3 on the PCB set at the factory setting it works like an loco does, white lights forward, rear lights red.   But no halo lighting.

Its all too complicated lol

Dave

Were any Bachmann 47's ever made with 8 pin sockets? I have D1500 which I am sure was from the first batch and that is a 21 pin

I thought there were, I was looking at two of them on ebay.   They were in the old style dark blue packaging too.

Hi everyone,

As my name suggests I am a big fan of the Class 47.   I own countless Bachmann Class 47's, but they are all 21 pin versions.

However I was looking at the older 8 pin versions, on ebay, gumtree etc.    Can anyone tell me what are the differences between the two versions?

Was there a re-tooled body put on the 21 pin?, as it looks identical to the 8 pin version.   Or was it just a reworking of the electrics that make the loco work?

Any help is most appreciated.

Cheers

Dave

Dean Park Station

Meanwhile still next to nothing on the class 158...

Indeed!  The three models I am waiting on for Bachmann to get released are the MK2F, Class 90 and the 158.   None of which ever seem to get closer.   Maybe they're spending all of their time making up excuses as to why they botched the paint job on the recently released Clas 37 "Mary Queen of Scots".   

Sorry - my use of "in house" was probably not a good choice. Perhaps "in country" would have been better. As soon as a company chooses to manufacture far from their main customer base too many variables come into play which affect cost over the extended periods that Bachmann's announcement policy lead to. Labour costs, exchange rates, taxation etc. are all completely out of their control. As China heads to a more western way of work (as it is starting to) and worker conditions have to improve, labour costs will increase significantly - and they are the most significant factor in costs.

 

Roy

I am sure companies who manufacture their goods in china are looking at this and eyeing up emerging economies such as India, Brazil etc for cheaper places to re-locate?   China can expect its cake and be able to eat it.   They will eventually go the way of the UK, USA etc.....it will cost too much to make stuff in china, unless they are realistic about how they do business.

India has to be a prime opportunity for manufacturers.

Starting a reply using the term 'with respect' is flawed. Meant to be the most depressing day of the year and it is the case with a few on here today. Leaving it there, no more needs to be said.

I was willing to respect your views, hence the "with respect".  It is clear that you are showing me and my views very little of that.  Thanks for the advice, but I do not need an English lesson on how to start a sentence, nor am I depressing the mood on here.

I think it is best if you leave it there.   I will also do the same.

Goodness me......(deep breathe)

 

Let's just take a moment people and let it all soak in, without any kneejerk reactions.

 

Put it all into perspective. I've been modelling in this hobby of ours for roughly 40 years or more now. When I first started, you didn't really have much choice in the matter with regards to modelling in 4mm or OO. The vast majority of RTR offerings really weren't up to much, but that was the way it was - and if you wanted to model the current scene back then, D+E locos were very limited and what was available wasn't really worth looking at.

 

So the modeller had to decide back then - buy RTR and put up with crappy motors, moulded detail and limited options OR but kits and build them OR buy a kit and get someone to build it for you. Either of the latter two and you were talking big money, even in the early 70's. I can very easily remember back to the Macclesfield exhibitions of the 70's when I were a lad, and a professional Model Maker by the name of Derek Lawrence used to attend every year with a demo stand, and no doubt pick up a lot of commission work in the process.

 

Point I'm making is that even back then, the price of a Derek Lawrence coach was wayyyyyy out of my league, but he had plenty of customers willing to spend their hard earned, on quality stock - I can't remember his prices, but in today's equivalent, I bet you'ld be looking at about £200 per coach.

 

So, we now have a major producer of Model Railway items, who are releasing what will undoubtably be a coach worth having, at today's price of sub £45!!!

 

I think we all need a bit of a reality check here and understand that you don't have to be very well off, to be able to own what would be classed as a high end kit built coach back in the 70's...........

 

We have for too long been conditioned to accept poor quality stuff in British outline, which thankfully has changed, but at the same time create uproar at what is perceived to be an outrageous price ( which hasn't changed but needs to ). Keep it down eh, as one Prime Minister once said "You've never had it so good".......

 

cheers

 

Andy

I see what you're saying Andy,

but, I think the era of "never had it so good" with regard to high quality models/price has passed.   Yes the quality is wonderful.   The prices ain't.    Looking back, the 2000's were the 'having it good' years.   Those of us who just joined the hobby in the early 2010's missed out on the best of the good times.

You must have voted 'Yes' for Brexit with that outlook. Its becoming the biggest example of hindsight. You cant have everything. If the detail was less you would complain, if its too expensive you complain, if its too cheap you would complain as a shortcut has been made somewhere

 

Bachmann have clearly been monitoring the sales of a commissioned set here - where the coaches work out at over £70 each, and they are selling well

With respect, whether I voted for Yes or No with regard to Brexit is neither here or there on a model rail forum. 

As it transpires, I voted to remain, so you're argument in most respects falls flat.

You incorrectly assume that I would neither be happy with a model with less detail, costing less OR a detailed model costing too much.   I am perfectly happy with the level of detail offered on the Bachmann MK1, Hornby Mk2e, Hornby MK3 and even the Hornby MK4....as these are all still affordable to me and the average modeller.

Brexit vote has taken 20% to 30% of the value of British pound. It strength versus the dollar is been weaken Bachmann buy plastic metal etc. In dollars not pounds. Secondly china labour cost i.e wages has in the past four years increase far higher than uk

Third if you want all extra details the labour cost becomes more of a issue as before credit crunch if extra detail added £2 of cost Bachmann could shoulder it for reduce margin now today that cost can not be shoulder as financial positions have changed.  

Fourth there are less container ships in the sea increasing shipping cost and causing delays. These massive ships need to be roughly 70%+ full to cover the cost that is a rough guess it can be a lot higher.

 

The effect of the spending cuts by Osborne, Britexit physically in force and President trump are yet to ripple to the bank note in your wallet and the prices for food and hobbies and other items will be in flux until things settle

 

With regards to labour cost in china

manufacturing wages currently are £6554.71 per year in china  UK=£30524 per year a difference of £23969.29 in other words UK is four times more expensive in terms of manufacturing wages.

 

Oil prices have been and continue to be highly volatile which effects shipping cost, cost of plastic, strength of economies world wide and inflation.

Yeah I see your points, I am aware of all of these pending factors.   But can Bachmann not take these 'new' factors into consideration (as they are not yet committed to the final spec of these coaches) and lessen the level of detail, and additional separately fitted parts to these coaches to make them more affordable?   I ain't talking about a Hornby "design clever" strategy (oh god forbid lol), but something in the middle.   I would pay up to £45-£50 for a special rolling stock item.   But brexit or no brexit...I cant see £75 as affordable to mere mortals. 

Make sure you get your facts right before launching into multicoloured outrage, a lot has changed since that time and you wouldn't be getting many new coaches at £36.13 these days; anyway £36.13 doesn't sound like a Bachmann price, surely that's a discounted retailer price (with optional guesswork) which you are comparing with an RRP four years later- £74.95 is for the DCC fitted with lighting option. The standard version is £49.95.

Post amended.

Just had an email from Hattons - rrp is now £49.99, Hattons to sell at £42.46. Due March/April 2018.

absolute RIP OFF!    I cannot believe this price!

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Hornby-Oo-Gauge-Br-Intercity-Exec-Class-43-Hst-Boxed-Locomotive-Train-R2702X-/291986892778?hash=item43fbc667ea:g:fa4AAOSwnHZYZtjv ?

Shhhhhhh, dont tell anyone.....I am watching it.   but it will go north of £250 I would expect ;-(   lol

I understand where you are coming from but I just wonder who Hornby thinks will buy them apart from affluent collectors.

 

I would be interested to know if there is anyone on this forum who would be willing to pay £329.99 for 2 HST power cars?

I am on the verge of saying that's too much, and that's coming from me who is a self confessed HST nut!  

I have 5 in my fleet....but my most expensive one was £220 from Locomotion last year.   To be asking north of £300 is ridiculous for what actually is 1 LOCOMOTIVE and 1 dummy coach with lights!   a rip off?  In 2011 the HST R2702 was on sale for £105!    I'd buy 3 for the price of one set now.....hyper inflation, or profit grabbing?

EVERY YEAR I wish for a Swallow livery power car.   EVERY YEAR I am disappointed.   No more MK3 with Swallow branding either.  and Finally NO more Virgin MK3's to expand on the rake from last years releases!  Over all, a MASSIVE disappointment today.

I understand there will be many who are happy (southern, western and steam modellers) but yet again the modern image 1980-1990's modeller has slim pickings.   I hope the range is a success for Hornby.  They need it to be.

I am glad to see this thread still rolling on.   I didnt think I would get more than half a dozen Fans of the CL91 when I started.

I have been continuing my case for a new class 91 from Hornby, but the more I think about it, why cant a crowd funded project from one of the other manufacturers, ie Rapido? be started?

How is this done?

I have the Class 91 MK4 and DVT in the East Coast livery.   While a nice set I cant see past those plastic stickers pretending to be headlights on the CL91 and DVT.   

The fact is, Electrics must sell or they wouldnt keep putting it in their line up.   Therefore if they sell well, surely they would sell even more if it was a better product?   Therefor they should look at the sales market and take the plunge with a full re-tool.   What I have said has been said 100's of time, probably in this thread!, but sadly Hornby dont listen.

Hornby are going to lose their MK3 monopoly to Oxford Rail.   So they wont even be able to rely on that coach to help their sales figures. I will still buy the MK3 from Hornby as its a good coach and matches the paint colours/shades on the power cars (Oxford will inevitably be a different shade of BR blue, Intercity beige etc).   I feel sad that Hornby have brought much of this on themselves.   I want them to flourish, but if they dont act then other companies will squeeze them out of more and more Hornby 'owned' products.

I have all but given up on Hornby re-tooling their 91.   In fact, I have almost given up on Hornby all together!!

How could a crowd funded project be started to get another manufacturer to step up to the mark and give us a new 91, MK4 DVT and brand new MK4 coaches?

Maybe then Hornby may poke their head up from behind their rapidly growing mountain of niche (some instantly forgettable) classes of steam engines and take notice!  In saying that, I very much doubt they will even bat an eyelid as yet another one of the products which they used to have a monoploy on gets produced by a rival to a far superior standard (like the Class 37, Class 42, Class 47, Class 58, Class 59 and now the Class 90 etc).  

I have no company loyalty, I will go to who ever produces what I want and to the standard that is acceptable to the price charged!

I ended up thinking the same thing after pondering that price tag for a while, being similar money to the excellent HST power cars, then that pack would have to be of comparable quality. I just cant see how the railroad Class 91 + DVT could possibly justify that price tag otherwise. If it really is the old one then it'll be ending up in the Black Friday bargain bin next year for an awful lot less than £210 because I just cant see it selling for that price.

 

..... but I wouldn't expect new tooling and only one catalogue release either. If Warley is going to bring a Class 91, I wouldn't have expected the East Coast pack to be announced today

Hi, I have to agree with what you're saying....I am starting to doubt if the new 91 is on the way this year... SIGH.

However, he is one thought to justify the price tag......the train pack includes some Virgin Liveried MK4 coaches??   Say two or three coaches will justify the 209 price tag.   Remember they did this with the flying scotsman 91 pack!   What do you think?

Just looked at the new Hornby 2016 range. Looks as if the existing dated tooling is going to be dressed up in the Virgin livery. Including a (R3501) 'Limited Edition' Class 91/Mk4 DVT Train Pack for a cool £209.99.

What confuses me is that £209.99 for a limited edition set of old 'railroad' detailed items.   Thats just crazy money.   The images clearly show that its a current tooling item, but these are just computer images....are Hornby playing it cool here?, will they pull the wraps off the newly tooled 91 and DVT to justify the high price tag? 

Consider this....a newly tooled HST with full DCC motor, all wheel drive, lights and high level of detail is only another £10 more expensive.   So surely, this £209 for a CL91 and DVT is a BIG HINT that something special is going to be announced?

Keep the faith....I will be holding my breath on Saturday for the announcement.  It better not be two new bloody steam engines!! lol