Wheatley

So far I've found 12 major variations on the BR 'standard' 1/208 12 ton van, without starting on different buffers, axleboxes, disc/spoked wheels and liveries.

This. Refocus so your OCD is channelled into reproducing the prototype in all its untidy but operationally practical messyness. It looks chaotic and random at first glance but it isn't, there's a reason for everything in a traditional goods train, even if that reason was the shunter avoiding doing unnecessary walking. As well as the full size rules there are any number of systems devised by modellers to decide which wagons are going where using everything from dice to playing cards.

Depending on ow you define "big" and "long lasting" that could either make no difference at all, or restrict them to BR Blue. Even that was only dominant for 20 years. To take the railway's most settled period as an (admmittedly historical) example, LMS loco livery (25 years) was essentially red or black with yellow lettering, yet David Jenkinson's book on the subject runs to over 200 pages and listed so many variations that an alpha-numeric code was required to keep track of them all. In the same 25 years a single LNER class of 35 locos had (at least) 4 different liveries (A4s - grey, garter blue, apple green, black), the Southern went through three different shades of green and even the ultra-standardised GWR managed several variations of crest/shirtbutton and lettering. They'll make what they think sells, just like they always have. And what sells isn't necessarily what is/was typically seen, especially if it's pretty.

Railway Modeller and Hornby Mag - second Thursday of the preceding month. There are five Thursdays in January this year, hence it's 'early' appearance. Model Rail - 13 times per year (so nominally 4 weekly). Model Ralway Journal - 8 times per year (ish). Dunno about the others.

Thank you all very much gentlemen ! Richard is bang on the money, that is the very site. However, I must confess I'd never considered Google Earth, I use Google Maps all the time but I've never bothered to download the full GE, and Ade's results look like they might extremely useful if the 3D mapping extends to Galloway :-) (I bet it doesn't !).

About 3 or 4 years ago one of the mags, either MR or RM, ran a small article about a web site which converted maps into a digital panorama. You clicked on a point on a map and told the widget which direction to look in, and it drew an outline panorama showing what the hills etc would look like from that position. Essentially, in it's simplest form, it could sketch the outline of the backscene for a real location without all trees and buildings getting in the way. Does anyone have the faintest idea what I'm talking about, and know what the site was please ? I had it bookmarked a couple of laptops ago but of course now I need it I can't even think of a suitable search term to Google to find it again.

If the "other" was near Walmgate then I think it's closed. Monk Bar and P&S (RC shop) don't duplicate much apart from plastic kits and paint, both have their specialisms.

In my case I'm using the LNWR brake/Mk1?/Mk1?/DoE's 12 wheeler/LNWR brake formation used when Alberta worked it back from Ripon in 1966 (?) because that's the only shortish formation I've seen where I could make a reasonable stab at the vehicles used. Exactly which Mk1s were involved I'm not sure but I've guessed at the dining salon and equirry's saloon. The Gloucester's trip to Stranraer in 1960 is far more appropriate for me. I've no doubt that when I visit the NRM to look at the records (now I know that a) there actually was a trip to Galloway and b)which file to ask for !) they'll have gone in something else entirely, but it's my trainset...

Agreed. It's hardly a covert mode of transport, and those bits which need to remain covert will still be covert even after the other records are released. As modellers we have the advantage of only really being interested in what it looked like - the fine detail of how and why is interesting and useful but not (usually) absolutely necessary. I suspect the reason it's not often modelled is that it requires some effort as it has never been done properly RTR. There's one sleeper (Bachmann Collectors Club) and some Hornby comedy saloons for the modern version, but that's still only a quarter of a generic train. I have the etches for one of the LMS armoured saloons and the ex-LNWR power brakes safely stored in a Round Tuit box, but I'll still need to scratch build the other 2/5ths of 'my' particular working.

Superb. Thanks 'Chard.

At least both ends of the train are equally ugly.

Sensible though, when you consider that the thing most likely to be coupled to that end is Longsight's pilot.

I suspect the reference to 'chain pockets' on the Hattons advert is as accurate as the grey livery. It's certainly misleading in the context of this discussion.

Agreed. You can follow prototype practice without modelling a prototype location. Buckingham, the various Borchesters, Wibdenshaw and others all follow prototype practice but none are models of real (railway) locations. In all those cases the builders decided what the local industries/markets and traffic flows were likely to be, then copied what the prototype would/might have done in that situation.

Any particular B17 ? At any particular date ? A lot depended which works put them on, in most cases you're better off making an educated guess from a good photo. In theory it should be one of the two larger sizes on something the size of a B17.

It was one of the layouts which inspired me as a kid, I would have been about 10 at the time. The track weaved it's way around/through various small buildings and facilities (scrap pile, overhead crane ? etc). It was quite compact (maybe a foot wide but quite long) and was almost a series of industrial cameos.

If not Walker Marine then Allied Marine by Allan Sibley and Brian Dorman. Walker Marine was multi-level and viewed from the upper level looking downhill (and 1990s from what I remember ?), Allied Marine was all on one level. http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/44780-1970s-layout-the-aml-of-alan-sibley-brian-dorman-looking-for-refs/

I don't think I've missed the point. My bargain (on something I don't actually need) is an independant retailer's profit margin, regardless of whether it costs more everywhere this year than it did last. "Delighting in getting a bargain" is why there are so few model shops left.

Most markets for low volume/high production cost unnecessary trinkets (largely) dependant on a handful of manufacturers and independant retailers I expect. If UK model railways had a turnover of £60bn a year (petrol) or £150bn a year (supermarkets) we'd all be shopping around and no-one would be the slightest bit concerned that one retailer wasn't stocking one product range (for whatever reason).

By that argument (Jason's) they're all 'based on' a GWR Asmo/Damo (or other slab-sided CCT of choice). The GUV and CCT used Mk1 components and jigs which is why they're usually considered in the 'Mk1' description. The horsebox less so but still enough to qualify.

And is still way behind Peppa Pig.

The CCT was based on the Mk1 57' GUV and shared its body and roof profile and, more importantly, jigs for those parts. The GUV in turn was based on the standard 'short' chassis and running gear.

Second photo - third carriage from the camera is a BR Mk1 third (or possibly composite but not sure there would be two adjacent compos in the same set), and the one immediately behind the loco is a Stanier brake third.

M = mineral wagon R = sub-type R ('side tipping, ballast' in this case, second letter doesn't mean the same thing in other wagon types and doesn't necessarily stand for anything) A = air braked.