etendam

For those who are buying importing items from the UK into the EU please note that on July 26th 2021 the European regulations regarding CE are changing. Modeltrains must have a CE Marking and from then on the company that sells products in the EU must have an authorised representative in the EU. An authorised representative in the EU can be: The manufacturer or the brand The importer An authorised representative designated as the authorised representative by the manufacturer This person must be established in the European Union. For some companies it will be difficult to sell items in the EU. This is one of the reasons why Hornby has setup a distribution point in the Netherlands (Beside VAT, Duties etc) The customs are entitled to block modeltrains coming in the EU. without the proper paperwork. How do they know there are modeltrains in a parcel.....because the HS Code 9503003000 is used and this is a TOY classification where CE is mandatory! Will the customs check every shipment? Of course not but don't be suprised if they pick out your shipment and block it from entering the EU unless the paperwork is correct!! More reading: https://www.ecomundo.eu/en/blog/ce-marking-authorised-representative-echeance-juillet-2021 Ed

No this isn't the issue...when selling directly to customers in the UK (without Ebay or other selling places) the seller must have a UK VAT number and pay the VAT for purchases below £ 135. About 50 % of the EU businesses refuse to request for a UK VAT number as it isn't just the VAT that are the costs but you have to pay your bookkeeper also an additional fee for the extra work that is involved. I know that a lot of companies have said that is then easier not to supply UK customers anymore as long as this VAT rule is valid. Ed

When Ebay has taken care of the VAT then rhe seller gets a note in the payment details with a VAT number. When this is added on the shipping label it will arrive without additional costs. As a seller we have done this a lot and nthis works well. Ed

Yes they are. When purchased from a business seller he will be responsible for handling the VAT (Ebay will take care of this) to a purchase price incl shipping of £ 135. If bought from a private seller you will be responsible on arrival. Ed

Ebay does only take care of the duty and VAT in the US, the UK and a few EU countries. The seller has to register at the HMRC to get an UK EORI number and pay for the VAT for all purchases below £135 done by consumers. More then 80% of the EU business sellers refuse to do this and therefor block the shipping to the UK or they just sell above the £135 (as then the buyer is responsible for the VAT and the seller doesn't have to register) or to businesses as this applies only to consumers. The managed payments are also not applicable in all EU countries. (Not in Italy and Austria) Secondly the Ebay GSP in the Netherlands is more then double the shipping costs when I arrange the shipping myself. My buyers don't like it when the shipping costs are excessive! The Ebay GSP is hardly used in many EU countries and is mainly used in the US and UK. Last year we lowered the shipping prices (by swapping to another shipper with a larger volume contract) and this resulted directly in 30% more sales. As my competitor is located in the UK and having the issues with double VAT (The VAT is handled by Ebay but when shipping with Royal Mail another shipper delivers in the EU and then often they also charge a handling fee and VAT again!) As described on other forums when shipping with one shipper (DHL, DPD, Fedex) then you don't have double VAT but for low value items £ 25 to £ 30 shipping costs isn't an option. This increased our sales with another 200% from January. From July 2021, the €22 VAT exemption on small parcels being imported into the EU for delivery to consumers will be withdrawn. So for low value items every shipment will have a handling fee of the shipper and VAT. Further reading: https://www.avalara.com/vatlive/en/vat-news/eu-2021-e-commerce-vat-package.html Ed

Hattons are not shipping ALL shipments DDP. There are examples on other forums where buyers still had to pay on delivery. The shipping costs of these smaller orders were also just £ 5. But when you then have to pay € 46,50 at the courier.........then shopping outside the EU becomes less interesting. Ed

The EU have sent out a clear statement that EU consumer warranty no longer applies when purchases are made in the UK: It’s important to be aware that EU consumer rights no longer automatically apply to purchases from businesses based in the UK and will depend on the circumstances of the business you purchased from. As EU consumer rights no longer automatically apply this means that the European Small Claim Courts procedure and the EU Online Dispute Resolution Platform no longer accept complaints by consumers against businesses based in the UK. That the UK still have warranty regulations that will perhaps be the case, but buyers can's fall back to the EU rights as a buyer. This is why every EU country informs their citizens. https://www.ccpc.ie/consumers/shopping/brexit/ Ed

EU customers are warned that non EU purchases on self import will have NO warranty. Every EU government has stated this on their websites: https://www.rijksoverheid.nl/onderwerpen/brexit/vraag-en-antwoord/consumentenrechten-britse-producten and it is also mentioned in many articles as this is not negotiated fully yet. This is why many countries are stating you should make a purchase at a firm within the EU. Purchases on Ebay (and other seller places) are protected when paid by PayPal. Ed

Modeltrains not made in the UK or EU are 0% (third country duty) Ed

CE mark of course. Everyone like some chinese factories does can put CE on the label but the customs want to see the paperwork on inspection from a certified (and perhaps expensive) body when a batch is inspected. The next shipments from the same factory will be under i nvestigation as well. (According to a customs official) with the new EU VAT number they will be easier to track for the customs and they know upfront which shipments shoul be inspected as they don't inspect every shipment. They work with a hit and follow system. Once inspected and something isn't right you know the next shipments are high risk and will be inspected. Ed

None of the Dutch shippers accept this possibility but perhaps this is possible in a few countries. Catawiki also makes a very clear statement that returned items from outside the EU are double hit with VAT. Ed

Andy, To make sure they have a CE Mark AND 14 years age limit model for collectors mentioned. Just to be sure whenever someone tries to bring them in court if something goes wrong. Smart move but the CE is the most significant one. As Piko models are made in China they are hit with duty when they come into the EU. However if this item is in the UK now and you sell it to a buyer in the EU and the customs opens it it will be classified as a third country item. The same counts (and most of you perhaps are not aware of this!) when an item that is made in China, sold from the UK to an EU buyer it will added with third country duty (+VAT + carrier fee). However when it doesn't work and the buyer ships it back then it is hit with VAT when arriving in the UK (+ a carrier fee) The third country fee is 0 for the UK. When the item is repaired and sent back the third country duty (+VAT + carrier fee) is added for the 3th time. There are NO exceptions for guarantee or repairs to skip the customs and VAT! This is one of the most important reasons (According to the guys in Brussels - Don't blame Me! ) why a distributor, importer or a selling hub should be setup within the EU to protect the rights of private buyers. I know that this is killing for all smaller suppliers in the UK that are depnding on Export. Ed

Exactly and cloths, electronics and lots of other stuff all come from the far east and then third country duty is also added! The same is for cars made in the UK. As most car parts are not made in the UK, then a third country duty applies (10 %) on the entire car value. This is why the goverment is saying UK businesses that are exporting to the EU to consider to setup a selling hub in the EU or import a part into the UK and a part in the EU. In the last 4 months almost 1000 UK firms have made a registration in the Netherlands to avoid current and future issues. Hornby did this as well. Ed

An overview of the rules after July 1st: The Duty for Modeltrains will not change after July 1st but there is a catch here. They have a duty of 4.7% (Now also!) if they are not made (for at least 50%!) in the UK (but in f.i. China) This is why Hornby is setting up an EU warehouse! So if you sell a drive system with a Chinese motor it will be hit with a tariff. Beside the 0 or 4.7 % duty you will always (after July 1st) VAT for any purchase after July 1st when an item arrives in the EU and the carrier will also add a bill that differs by country (From € 5 to € 20) for handling the import duties, even if it 0. Commercial sellers will need an EU VAT number and take care of the VAT and a VAT representative in the EU. A workaround for this is by working with dealers in the EU, or appoint an importer, setup a EU warehouse (where the items from China are shipped directly to) With this system the EU wants to avoid that buyers are self importers and that the trade will go back to traders and that the VAT will go to the country where the goods are delivered to avoid that the VAT stays in the country where the warehouse is. CE Markings are required on items that are classified in the Toy category (and Modeltrains is a part of this!). The exemption is that it is a collector item and only suitable for 14 years and older. Both the collector item and the 14 years rule should be on the package. Without the CE markings the customs will keep shipments until the CE documentation arrives. When selling motors (as motors can also be suitable in not only modeltrains) you should not use the Tariff code for modeltrains but the Tariff code for motors or coreless motors. They will have a duty of 18% ! (+ VAT + carrier handling fee) but then a CE marking is not needed. The same works for flywheels, gear, electronics used in modeltrains etc. After July 1st the double VAT is still possible if a commercial seller doesn't want to request a EU VAT number. Then everything is handled by the carrier and the buyer is faced with high additional costs! if a sale is done by Ebay (or any other marketplace that MUST collect the VAT for the EU) and the Ebay invoice is not attached to the shipping documentation where it clearly says that the VAT is paid, then you are also hit with double VAT. VAT on Ebay only applies to commercial sellers, when purchasing from a private seller the VAT will always be added, so sometimes it will be more expensive to purchase from private sellers in stead of buying new items. As a commercial seller you can choose to use a more expensive GSP or additional costs will be charged when the item arrives at the buyer. Be aware that a buyer can leave negative feedback when he is hit with high additional costs that aren't mentioned in the Ad. Ed

It isn't just that when items are labelled as not suitable for children under 14 they don't have to have the CE mark. Modeltrains are classified as toys (in the Tarif system) and therefor need an CE mark. The only exception is when an item is a collectors item (Exclusive made model) AND not suitable for children under 14. Both should be clearly on the box! Recently someone noted on another forum that Peco items doesn't have a CE marking. (Hornby and lots of others have) This is mandatory when items items are checked by the EU customs. When the customs find such articles the seller is responsible for showing the CE documentation within a a time period ore the shipment will be shipped back (at costs of the seller) or destroyed by the customs. There is no difference if the buyer is a private person or a business, it is a sellers responsibility when bringing items into the EU! Ed

But a business seller then doesn't get a Paypal refund so most of them won't do this. Ed

Regarding the VAT I would like to explain something: Large Business sellers know how it work with VAT. They must not charge VAT if the order is over £ 135. Below that they MUST charge UK VAT . Some businesses don't want to do this on any orders and just earn the VAT as a additional bonus as they don't have to hand over the VAT to the local TAX authority. Smaller businesses are released from VAT if their annual turnover is below the VAT treshold of that country. This differes in every country! (FI Germany € 22000, Netherlands € 20000) This is similar to the UK where the VAT Treshold is £ 85000. (in the UK you can register for VAT even if the VAT is below the Treshold, in other countries you can't! These smaller companies can't deduct VAT and are not likely to have a UK VAT number! On arrival in the UK you get the UK VAT on top of that. So before just saying that you pay double VAT please first investigate what the issue is. This is also how it has been (and for lots of countries still is!!) on Ebay when a non EU buyer bought an item from a business with VAT). Ebay doesn't deduct the VAT, the seller ships the item and the buyer pays the import duties and VAT. The seller makes an additional profit as het doesn't have to hand over anything to the local tax authority. This explains why lot's of sellers are listing items on Ebay.com only and make it available for export only. They earn 20% more then selling the same item locally or within the EU. Ed

Shipping from the Netherlands to the UK now (as DPD suspended the shipping for Januari) is the Dutch post. (Or of course Fedex, DHL but they charge 2 - 4 times the costs) DPD charged € 7 in 2020 . PostNL now € 19,00 (Up to 1 Kg) and they will add € 1,20 for every additonal Kg. Last year parcels up to 30 Kg where € 9,50. So a parcel of 30 KG is now € 55. That is more then 400% increase just because the shipment leaves the EU. There isn't one cent of vAT in this! Most buyers are also charged with a courier fee as well! Ed

When a registered VAT business exports outside the EU the local TAX should not be on the invoice. (Even not for a purchase of 0.01) We have exported around the world for many years. To export items (up to £ 135) to the UK however the seller is responsible to collect the UK VAT. Around 40% of the companies refuse to do so, (because of the additional administration costs, accountant, Not many UK shipments or they just don't want to work with this system) and they will mostly let you pay the local VAT. Then the courier comes to collect the shipment and sees that there is no UK VAT number on the shipping label. In that case he must collect the UK VAT and the handling fee. The handling fee doesn't mean you have double shipping costs, they charge you for clearing a shipment on behalf of the customs. The same will apply when the EU IOSS system will start and EU VAT nr's are needed. Not everybody will do so as well. Therefor Aliexpress, Ebay, Amazon made arrangements with local TAX authorities to collect the VAT but even then buyers will face double VAT. Is this how the governments think how the domestic market should be protected? (wishful thinking) Ed

If the purchase is below £ 135 then the Italian supplier should charge the UK VAT and pay this to the HMRS. In that case the Italian company can't refund the VAT. If he mentioned the paid VAT on the DHL shipping documentation (Including his UK VAT number) then DHL shouldn't charge the VAT twice. If the Italian company doesn't have a UK VAT number he shouldn't have charged VAT and then he should handle the VAT by the DHL. So unless you know exactly what the case is you can't just say to the Italian company the should refund the VAT! Ed

In the beginning of this topic there was a discussion about business sellers needs to collect VAT on behalf of the HRMC. Please note that the EU will introduce a similar system now scheduled at july 1st. (It was also scheduled at Jan 1st but it was delayed as of Covid) In the EU the new system is called IOSS. What does it mean? - Ending €22 import VAT exemption in the entire EU. So an small item that is now sent as a letter will be subject to VAT. (And the handling fee of course!) - Sellers from outside the EU that sell items to private persons or small businesses (That are exempted from VAT) sellers will be responsible to collect the VAT for the country where the items are shipped to. Then you will need a EU VAT number to continue selling (And in some countries a fiscal rep.) or make use of distibutors / importers. So a lot of things that have been said before only counts for a few months and then everything starts all over again. This explains why so many large UK based companies has setup selling hubs / warehouses in the EU just to be prepared. Ed

Ebay already have implemented the VAT & cost of customs that will be added after Jan 1st when buyers want to purchase items from the UK. Similar screens will be added for the UK Ebay site for purchasing items from the EU. Here a buyer will be notified what additional costs will be added on the purchase. I have taken a random example from Ebay.de One thing that isn't very clear to me is how custom costs will be calculated..... As there are different tariffs and they can't expect that private sellers know which tariff should be used for every item they list. (Even if it is 0 you can still have a third country duty and modeltrains are classified differently by the customs than modeltrain parts with different third country duties if the parts are not originally produced in the UK) So it looks like Ebay is almost Brexit ready and it will also works for the One Stop Shop that will be implemented in the EU on July 1st. (Then the VAT goes to the country where the product is delivered to in stead to the country that where the seller is from. This applies to business sellers) This will help business sellers to avoid that they have a VAT number in different EU countries if they sell more then the current threshold. Ed Ed

This isn't a customs case from Märklin but it looks a re-import from a buyer that bought an item from a third country. Why else will you have custom duty in your own country? This decision is a final decision made and then they publish it as example cases for imports. So not all items are automatically placed under 9503003000. Why would a pre-ordered loco made in China increase in price given the rate of duty is unchanged? See the post from @admiles. They will protect the internal market and put higher tariffs on MRR imports to do so. Ed

I still hope that the UK achieves a deal with the EU. In that case just the VAT is added (So the best option will be to purchase from companies that have a VAT reduction) and of course the Royal Mail or equivalent in Europe with a handling fee. Both the UK and Europe are trying to protect internal markets. In Europe the threshold will disappear in all countries. This will hit private buyers that order from China directly (Ebay, Amazon and Aliexpress). It doesn't matter to large buyers that are already paying import duties. An additional 48-90% price increase will also not help (Just a lot of additional income to HMG ) MRR buyers will be surprised to see that the models they have a pre-order for and that is made in the far east will have a totally different price as the price they ordered it once for when it will be delivered. That the prices will rise .......that is sure! Ed

You can apply for a refund if you are hit with a tariff that isn't correct but: The German Customs classified on 24/10/2019 a working Model train with DCC decoder installed as 9503 00 70 (Other toys and models, incorporating a motor ) https://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/dds2/ebti/ebti_details.jsp?Lang=en&selectedReference=&reference=DEBTI39938/19-1&refcountry=&valstartdate=&valstartdateto=&valenddate=&valenddateto=&suppldate=&nomenc=9503003000&nomencto=&keywordsearch=&descript=&orderby=&totalRecords=53&linkVal=&viewVal=&keywordmatchrule=&specialkeyword= This is done by a case. This one is valid until 27/10/22 The same discission has been made in case DEBTI23580/20-1 (A H0 Scale Unimog electric with DCC - That is a Märklin 39940 ) When looking at https://www.trade-tariff.service.gov.uk/commodities/9503007000?currency=EUR Then you notice that it is hit wit a 4.7 % third country duty AND of course the standard customs fee - In the Netherlands that is around € 13 and over this total you also pay VAT. So it looks like which custom service employee is looking at the model and where they decide to classify it in and if it is hit with tariffs. This also explains why there are discussions on MRR forums about this subject when (Re-) importing the same model by different buyers. Ed