ColHut

G'day, Looking at the numbers of rolling stock in use in 1932 as given by Essery, I note over 150,000 mineral wagons owned by the railways, most of which were not in use as service stock for Loco coal. Can anyone advise whether non-hopper railway owned minerals in traffic use were common user stock? Some pictures suggest they were, but I do not have any hard evidence either way. regards

Indeed, very few large oil burners in the fleet then, The Queen Elizabeths and optionally the Revenge Class I think. More to the matter at hand, What size passenger trains called there? regards

Thanks All. Much clearer now. An interesting station with possibility of a train wrapped around the platform and sitting on the points for the branch although I do not know the length of passenger trins or the workings in 1917. regards

Looking at the facing connection to the branch at Stanley Junction, 1917, I am having trouble identifying what the numbers relate to. A copy of the diagram is on The Signal Box website. https://www.signalbox.org/diagrams.php?id=617 It looks like 33 and 34 are a facing point lock & bar, and the facing point itself, and 16 is a clearance bar? Or am I mising something obvious? Likewise 7,8 and 15. regards

Does anyone know at what line speed it was thought permissable to dispense with distant signals for a gated manned crossing on a public crossing? Thinking back to the 1930s. Trains will be running hourly on the single line branch at guess, if that. My 1928 BOT says: Fixed railway signals will not be required when, having regard to the traffic, gradients, &c., a sufficiently good view of the discs or lamps is obtainable by enginemen of approaching trains to enable them to stop short of the gates when they are across the railway. When, however, the view obtainable by enginemen is insufficient for this purpose, and it is considered necessary to give additional protection beyond that furnished by the gate discs or lamps, a fixed signal of the Distant signal type to be provided. The Distant signal may be either of the one-position unworkable type, when it is desired to give warning only of the proximity of the level crossing, or of the two-position worked type when information in respect of the actual etc. regards

Hmm I was thinking that too about the level crossing. Definitely a signal box special instruction to keep the signal off until they were ready to shunt back across the crossover. regards

Where my train does straddle the crossing and protecting signal, and comes to a stand, I take it I am supposed to lower the signal anyway under rule 68a(iii) and 68b? regards

Assuming I understand you correctly, there is a starter/advance starter 'East' of the tunnel on the up main to the right (#4) which is the section signal, and unless it is a very long train, no need to shunt into the forward section. On the ground this is about a further 140 yards along the track. Hope this helps. Regards

Dear Stationmaster, A variation on the above. Should a train arrive on the down main, and passing the signal box all is complete, the signalman still cannot send the 'train out of section' (TOS) to the box in rear as the train has not passed the clearing point. (There is no outer home here, still less one a 1/4 mile in rear of the Home signal). Before shunting the train across to the up main in preparation for a subsequent shunt into the yard, he does not have to 'block back' on the down main as he has not yet given the TOS. He must however 'block back' on the up main. Were there to have been an outer home a 1/4 mile back on the down main, might a less zealous signalman not send the 'train out of section' to the signal box in rear on the down main until the shunt was complete and just 'block back' on the up main? regards Edited as I had forgotten about the clearing point requirements for giving the TOS.

I look forward to your adaptation of the Evesham track plan to your layout area.

Thanks all very much. What a fount of knowledge RMWeb is! I have a situation at one point where the company siding becomes a private siding on the edge of railway property and where the railway access road is. Considering all of the above I have decided to put the road 'outside' the fence so to speak and have the crossing gated and normally closed across the siding, and be the dividing line between the private siding and the railway siding. This way: - the private siding is normally closed off as it should be when not in use - the public are protected from straying into railway property or getting squished by trains - the shunter can operate the farm-type gates as required due to the infrequent use. But I did like the idea of a man with a red flag. regards

Where a railway-owned station approach or access road crosses a siding , (as it might), what were the protection requirements? Were the gates normally shut against the railway and operated by the shunter? I am assuming the public obviously use the road to access station facilities. perhaps they have to herd cattle or sheep to a cattle dock or collect goods from the station. Were there just warning signs put up? I am assuming late 1930 GWR. regards

Thanks for that. I seem to have been confused about the need for both ends of the slip to be set in pairs. And always seem to get confused by the diagramatic representation of the slip. This saves another point lever and simplifies things which is a good thing. regards Hopefully final version:

Thanks Ray, your comment makes me realise I have missed off the other lever for the single slip! regards Edit: Looking at the combinations though a single lever (6) will suffice for both as they will be both closed (Crossing) or both open (slip). The former being the normal position. Likwise (7) is normally closed for straight through traffic and (13) normally open (to divert traffic). The operation of these three levers being independent to allow for the three main routes: 6N, 7N,13N yard isolated and main lines isolated 6N, 7R, 13R yard connected through crossing to up main point 7. 6R, 7R, 13N yard isolated and main lines connected through crossover formed by slip and point 7. regards

Thanks for that. I have drawn it too far forward (my digital editing was not to good). It will be placed further back on the model, and probably overhead on a bracket or similar. regards

Thankyou all very much. Here is plan 4 which reflects the above. regards

Thankyou, Assuming I put in a stop dignal as suggested where the banner repeater is, then the following sequence is possible. With the crossing gates shut and no trains accepted, and after receiving an acknowledgemnt of blocking back inside the home signal from the box in rear on the up main, the signalmen can set the way from the siding to the up main. The signalmen then pulls off the yellow shunt disc (12), and the signal protecting the crossing, allowing a train to back out (but running in the normal direction) across the down main and up the up main. Here it may come to rest across the signal and crossing. After a toot on the whistle or whatever, the signalman can, having obtained the line lear clear for the next block section on the down main, set the way and pull off the shunting signal (8) and the starter (14). The train can then be on its way forwards now throgh the crossover formed and head on its way. The signalmen can now restore the stop signal in rear of the crossing on the up main, reset the rest of his points and signals to their default position, give the train entering section and send his obstruction removed. With some allowance for brevity, does that sound right?

Thankyou. 7 and 8 are transposed. I will fix that and put the crossing levers at the end. If I replace the repeater with a running signal this will allow light engines out on the up line from the yard without closing the gates, which will usually be closed over the road. My concern is that longer trains will need to run past that point, which will require the clearing of the signal, and will probably end up straddling the signal (and the crossing). Straddling the signal does not seem right, but if this was not uncommon then that would be good to know. regards

See version 3. I have found more tippex so I have renumbered the levers.

Limit of shunt, no go even for backing movements in the normal direction of travel? Okay. Silly me, a backing manouver from the down main onto the up main will be going in the normal direction and so will be limited by the up starter anyway. Numbering is out but I seem to have run out of tipex. I will get to it. On version 2, red disc 5 reads through the slip (7) to the up main. Disc 4 reads to the down main, and disc 9 to the siding. thanks for your help.

Thankyou all. In all fairness whilst not the ECML, it will not be a 25mph speed zone so I will try and put is a single slip in place of the double slip. The current double slip is rather dodgy so it is up for replacement anyway. Shunting can be on the up line. I cannot put in a trailing crossover for the down main alas as the landscape is in place and there is no room for one. The slip exists only perhaps because of the shortage of room and perhaps justifiable in terms of its supposed early origins in the 1840s. If I were to start over.... I will renumber the points and add the extra ground signals. I am undecided about a trap point as the trackwork is down, and it would also divert runaway stock towards the platform. Though it probably would not get vey far. I will ponder that. I will shortly upload a modified diagram. The platforms are only 180-200 feet long so it seems inevitable given the length of even a short train that the level crossing will have to be fouled pretty much whenever a passenger train stops, so it seems pointless to move the up starter closer and in rear of the crossing. Where it is at least the engine is clear of the tunnel, if, having completed station duties, it is held up waiting for acceptance in the next block section up. That was my thinking, but feel free to suggest alternatives. The crossing only provides access into the yard. Likewise I do not want to put a stop signal just in rear of the slip on the down as I will end up with stopping passenger trains straddling it if a full 3 coaches are to occupy the platform. In this situation it seems best to accept that any shunting on the lines will prevent acceptance of other trains, and that a train could be held and halted at the down home, and then shunting could take place within station limits on occasion. If you think this is way off let me know. regards thanks again.

Thanks for that. Appreciated! Limit of shunt board noted, will add. Most likely all shunts will be within station limits. Either way as there will be no accepance under warning, The main lines will have to be clear to accept a train from either adjacent blocks. I think a standard red disc at the toe of the point short of the locking bar wil suffice there with (in theory) track circuiting or mechanical depression bars back to 13/14 locking the points. I cannot move 13/14 up the line as passenger train engines or their carriages will often foul the slip during station duties, and I dont want the train straddling a home signal as well. I could be worrying too much. The banner repeater (12) can certainly move to the other ide of the crossing. Again, regretabbly the level crossing will be obstructed by stopping passenger trains. An accident of this line's 1840s 'history'. I am not sure I follow your comments about converting the double slip to a single. Perhaps you could say a little more? The lever numbers were just added left to right for reference for the diagram, I should renumber them. Thanks for your input.

Three years ago I set up my first layout for my son (honest it was for him, well maybe for us). http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/81269-how-to-signal-this-layout/ I mentioned one day to SWMBO that we could run a long shelf layout along the seven metre games room wall. The good lady suggested instead that if I cleared the computers from the computer room (ex large bedroom) and moved them to the games room, we could have the computer room all to ourselves. I did not take long to think about it and the train room was immediately commissioned. There were some restrictions: I was not to occlude the passage way running through the room along one wall. I was to use and incorporate the existing boards set up as much as possible as it had had a considerable amount of landscaping added. I had to work my way through a built in wardrobe. The layout was to be an around the room layout with a 'hop under' entrance. The layout was eventually built and converted into a dog-bone layout with under-board track loops. The layout is accessible form the inside, and along one outer side. There are all sorts of compromises due to the use of existing parts, and the demands of the chief designer (harbour, continuous running, turntables etc) A reasonable view of the layout can be seen below. The buildings and platforms can be taken with a pinch of salt as they are blocks to show rough sizes. The colours of the track have no relevance. Ignore the signals from SCARM. The below board loops: I will try and take some actual photos. I intend, for each ground frame and signal box to use its own modratec locking lever frame, and have the points and signals driven electrically or by WIT. My current issue is signalling Little Pigglington. Particularly the exit from the siding. Goods trains back in across the double slip from the up main, and head into the siding to run around and shunt. Those from the down main enter through the facing slip into the head shunt and back into the sidings. When locos go on shed they take the engine shed road. My thoughts at this stage are that a single yellow disc or miniature arm would suffice. The normal movements out of the sidings are either up the main forward or backing into the down main. Other moves from the siding will be hand signalled. If two would be appropriate then let me know. A schematic is below: Point 4 is normally set for the sidings to protect the main line. There will be suitable interlocking. I probably need a running shunt in rear of 7 (perhaps a GPL) so that when a train has backed out onto the down main, it knows when the points have been re-set so it can proceed to the starting signal. Any other suggestions on the signalling are welcome. The main layout is LNER, possible ex-GNR. The branch is GWR with LNER running powers (however unlikely!). *edited for typos.

I am guessing they will keep the peco code 100 and replace or supplement the code 75. That way for those for whom it never mattered will get the cheaper code 100, and, like all improvements, new modellers may choose the BH over the old code 75. regards