robertcwp

Arrangements might have varied from year to year although as the extras were marked in the carriage workings I have as "King's Cross to secure" or "Edinburgh to secure" they probably used whatever was available. The extras were listed as being immediately to the south of the Aberdeen section in the northbound train, with one of the extras running through to Aberdeen in 1958 and 1961. The shot of 60025 illustrates perfectly the headboard issue (ie being used in error on a Saturday). One of the Thompson RFs was damaged by fire in August 1959 and was replaced by a Gresley RF, which then became a regular in one set. 1961 saw a Mark 1 FK and RUO in the set and the restoration of the second with ladies' retiring room, as there was no longer such a facility in the FK.

60160 has overhead warning flashes on the firebox in the photo and there is snow on the ground, so early 1962 seems like when the photo was taken, which would fit with the information in Yeadon about its final overhaul at Doncaster.

Thanks for finding out how 60528 came to be on Retford. Something of a memorial engine.

Thanks, I knew there was an Ohio connection.

What we refer to in the UK as the buckeye coupling is very American. Perhaps there was less American influence in continental Europe? If I recall correctly, buckeye refers to the Buckeye State, ie Ohio, which is were Master Car Builders were based or had operations and early UK versions of the buckeye coupling were the MCB type.

I vote for leaving 60528 as it is.

The Saturday working of the Elizabethan set confuses many photo caption writers, especially when the engine is pictured displaying the headboard, as seems to have happened occasionally. The last year of the Saturday non-stop was 1953. The Saturday train was not usually the same formation as the Monday to Friday working. As illustrated here, there was usually a BSK at the London end in place of the BG and the formation was strengthened further back. The lounge buffet was also taken out - for example there is a 1957 published photo of a different Saturday train crossing Welwyn Viaduct with a maroon Thompson buffet in the formation. The buffet itself ceased to be in the Elizabethan after 1957. This image, which I acquired recently, is a bit of a mystery to me, as it shows the headboard but there is a Gresley brake at the front of the formation: 60030_up-Elizabethan_Highdyke_1954 by Robert Carroll, on Flickr It might be the Saturday train.

The photo of 60160 by Keith Pirt appears in several places. It appears to be from early 1962 and was taken during an extended period of running in following the engine's final general overhaul (outshopped 30/12/61). I should clarify that in my initial post about the oddity of the weathered 60528 on Retford, I used the term "Retford crew" very deliberately to refer to the broader group of people who assisted Roy in one way or another, such as with ad hoc projects or by helping to run the layout when Roy had visitors, rather than the narrower term "Retford Mob" which to me would mean the small group of regulars who helped Roy over many years and without whom the layout would not be what it is today.

That might explain why Roy came to build that particular engine. (EDIT: in the light of subsequent information, it appears not.) However, I'm pretty sure I have seen a photo of it on a running in turn, possibly at Retford, but cannot locate the image, which I suspect is in a Backtrack or Steam Days magazine so finding it would be like looking for a needle in a haystack. Looking at Yeadon, 60528 was outshopped from Doncaster following a general overhaul in February 1957 so would probably not have been at the southern end of the ECML in the summer of 1957. From 1949 until withdrawal, it was based in Scotland, moving between Perth, Dundee and Aberdeen Ferryhill. Happy Knight was allocated to sheds in England and was at New England in 1953. Other sheds it was allocated to were Copley Hill, Grantham, King's Cross and Doncaster. Yeadon mentions Annesley for one week in July 1950, which seems odd. Possibly a paper allocation that was cancelled? Happy Knight is represented on Retford. From memory, it might be Bachmann.

Come to think of it, if I recall correctly there is a photo somewhere of it on Retford unweathered. Where that photo is, I can't recall.

It runs very well and is the best looking of my 9Fs.

I believe someone offered to weather several engines and took that one along with several others, possibly as a result of a misunderstanding. Even if it had run on High Dyke, it would still have needed to be ex-works unless the scenario Tony suggests was the reason it was weathered.

This Bachmann 9F came from Tony and is now enjoying life after Little Bytham: P1090128am by Robert Carroll, on Flickr

Deleted.

You could well be right, but it still seems odd that it's weathered. I can't believe that is what Roy intended but it was one of his engines that came with the layout when Sandra acquired it.

There is also a Tudor Minstrel on Retford, but it has been heavily weathered. This might have been by mistake as I think Roy intended it to be ex-works and running in but one of the Retford crew weathered it along with several other locos.

I would notice both if I saw them. I certainly recall the blue/grey porthole, which I think was done before Bachmann released their models. I'm disappointed that Bachmann did not do the composite as well. I run mixed livery DMUs on my layout. This image is from six years ago, before I had my DMU mass dirtying-up: P1070894am by Robert Carroll, on Flickr

It's a period I like to see modelled. D400 was the only 50 to have the MU jumpers from new. D401 seems to have had sockets only, presumably so the two could be tested together. Jumpers were fitted to the remainder in preparation for the start of double-heading in 1970. I have been thinking about whether my Freightliner set should have a brake vehicle of some description. Currently, it does not. One small suggestion is to have an air-braked 47 on the Freightliners.

Incidentally, I believe the porthole CK was the only porthole type to carry four liveries, because the early ones were painted in unbranded LMS livery as they were outshopped before crimson and cream was adopted as standard.

Bachmann has done the CK in maroon and crimson and cream but not blue/grey. They have done the BSK and SK in blue grey.

20 Mark 2 FKs were green when new. They mostly went blue/grey when converted to air brake around the time of the Bournemouth electrification or just after. One is the first carriage in this train: MN_Basingstoke_13-11-65 by Robert Carroll, on Flickr There were also about 50 in maroon when new.

Green, maroon and blue/grey in one train (February 1970 is the processing date on the slide mount): Woodhead-Route_FEB-70 by Robert Carroll, on Flickr

Livery crossover eras are often not modelled, or so it seems from exhibition layouts. There are exceptions though. I remember commenting to John Houlden that Gamston Bank (set in 1954) needed some LNER-liveried stock as there were still some around then - some teak or mock teak carriages made it all the way through the crimson and cream era without gaining the livery. Stoke Summit was good in that it depicted the crimson and cream to maroon transition, as does Retford. There are other examples too. The early BR years are a good period for mixed liveries, including the 1948 experimental ones. DMUs were not always uniform: DLW_4-10-67 by Robert Carroll, on Flickr 53434_53507_N677_ManVic_29-10-88 by Robert Carroll, on Flickr Neither were Blue Pullmans: Blue-Pull_down_Moreton_1-8-68 by Robert Carroll, on Flickr

Here is a Hawksworth in blue/grey - albeit it had been in Departmental service: Hawksworth-BG-blue-grey by Robert Carroll, on Flickr

How about LNWR stock in blue/grey? DE320104E_DM395017M_Wloo_8-66 by Robert Carroll, on Flickr