vitalspark

Dont know how they got past the front door..security need to sharpen up.

We are fortunate to have access to high end Nikon equipment like D3s bodies and various low angle lenses but I would disagree that you always need a tripod..ok you do for general shots of the layout but often the most discussed and best received images are the ones taken at scale 'eye' level and for that you need the camera on the track and the more compact the better. A decent compact or an inverted phone can see into places other dslrs cannot and often with surprising results. Attached a few examples that might be familiar to some taken with an iPhone 5s. And a much earlier very low res shot taken with an old Sony compact. On earlier theme about hiding the fiddle yard at our last show at Wakefield the public did have access to rear of layout which of course attracted the usual undesirables,,, Dave.

Out of production now but the Gaugemaster LT self contained power unit and road is a great tool. Occasionally available on e bay. Dave.

A superb pic..colour and weathering spot on ..trackwork ballast and backscene too. What layout is this taken on..great shot and certainly worthy of 'How Realistic'..well done. Dave

..and on the trainset at Wakefield last weekend. ..followed by 'three men & a bike'!

Latest addition to Alloa on the rollers.. Fully detailed including draught screens..drivers 'bunnet'and coupon now toned down! Weathering courtesy of 'MadMcCann'..the coal in the tender is guaranteed Kingmoor..its all he uses! Worsley works Gloucester in the background.

The 'big' win was a long time ago and believe it or not it came on the eve of a special holiday we had planned to the US which included arriving in New York the proper way on the QE2 before she was stood down…in saying that or cabin was steerage and no doubt would have been with the poor souls behind the locked gate on Titanic! It was however the most elastic two grand I have ever had as for the ensuing two weeks holiday anything we fancied was ok as we had just one the lottery..all spent by the time we came home. On a baseball hat for Davy Threelinks' bonce..yes that a good idea and one which his fellow associates up here would agree with as he dazzles us regularly leaning over his pointwork. I'll put bit to the lads and see if we can have a whip round. Dave

Im sure theres another couple of locos up here waiting to go into Kingmoor paint shops..they do a great job! Dave

Ah but it gives you hope. Every Sat afternoon you can allow your mind to wander and plan what you would do with all that dosh! I do it every week and ok I've lost a lot more than I have won but still had two near misses with 5 numbers on Lotto netting over 2 grand and recently 4 + Thunderball for £250..right enough if I had the fifth that would have been half a mil…! The odds for the lotto jackpot are almost non existent but I would happily settle for 5 and the bonus which is still a jackpot in my book or Thunderball which is way better odds judging by the weeks I have picked up something on it and its still £1. Just been notified half hour ago that won a tenner on T'ball and a lotto lucky dip for Sat. Its getting close..can feel it in my water.. Dave

This boy says that Land Rover business class is his minimum standard..he's got the best seat on the house including complimentary drinks.

Many years ago when the only Midland 4F available was a Wills kit a good friend and skilled modeller who happened to work at a large hospital scratch built one utilising a syringe as the boiler..and a cracking job he made of it too! Dave.

David I think you are too modest in assessing your own skills as I am sure considering what you have built so far carving off plastic handrails and drilling out and fitting new ones will be nothing..its all about going slowly and a bitty at a time which I am sure is what you do with your buildings. Carve off the handrail with a sharp craft knife..nit all at once but 'shave 'it off then use a fine wet and dry to smooth the boiler then drill the appropriate holes and glue in handrail knobs and thread the rail through..you will probably have it done in an hour! Don't worry if the new rails don't look too true..the real ones after 50 years didn't either as many pics will testify to and after weathering any slips with the knife on the boiler will be gone. I admire your enthusiasm in having a go at a whitemetal kit with a soldering iron for a first project..I would be worried that if it doesn't work out well and it might not!..it may put you off for ever. What I would say though is if you can afford to do so invest in a decent temperature controlled iron as having the right iron will make such a difference and hopefully give your confidence a boost. Whitemetal has a very low melting point and an uncontrolled iron if not used skilfully will melt and distort the castings. I'm sure many on here will say they use a standard iron and have no problems etc but these are probably guys that could solder a kit together in their sleep. I am no stranger to soldering but I would not be without my temp controlled iron as apart from allowing soldering low melt with confidence it can also generate a very high tip temp..447deg.. on a very compact iron allowing work in tight spaces. The two things apart from the iron are the solder and the flux. Also basic preparation in that both surfaces are clean and free from any contamination. Use low melt solder..and set the iron below the melt point of the whitemetal but well above the solder melt and with a good flux applied with a paintbrush down the seam then when you touch the loaded iron to same it will run the liquid solder down the joint. Don't worry if its a bit lumpy as you can smooth it out with the iron or even separate and clean up and try again but main thing is the casting shouldn't be damaged. I bought mine in Maplins many years ago and it was three figures but they have come well down in price since then so give it some thought it really is a must. Good luck and keep us posted. Dave.

Thanks for all that Jock and I hope you are feeling better soon. We are exhibiting at SECC this Feb so hope to see you fit and well there. Dave.

Thanks for that Jock appreciate your comments. I am a 'spark' to trade and still at it plus a big fan of the Para handy Tales and their memorable quotes..like Para Handy breaking the news gently to Dan McPhail that he wasn't invited to a wedding that the rest were attending and saying..'put it this way Dan..there are only three wedding invitations and one of them is not for you'..brilliant. On anther forum I occasionally visit I use the name 'Electric Scot'..Vitalspark had been blagged already! On things G&SW I agree it is poorly represented in modelling terms which is remarkable as it ticks all the boxes ..dramatic scenery including viaducts..beautiful country stations and goods yards and part from local services the option to run 3 coach trains behind Pacifics..even sleeper services. It has probably just about to be discovered and about to explode on to the circuit! I travelled on the Port road only once as a 10year old from Dumfries to Newton Stewart. We were staying at Galloway House near Garlieston courtesy of the Glasgow Corporation education dept..residential weeks away were a new thing then and our school linked up with a couple of others and we were all shipped down from the city for some fresh air.. I remember sitting on the crossing gates at Isle of Whithorn..but no trains..when we visited St Ninians. 'Mad McCann' who posted this thread is part of our small group who are currently putting together another large Scottish exhibition layout to follow up Alloa but its based on a location a few miles further north firmly in Caley territory! Individual members are also building fine scale EM layouts within the club so perhaps mr MMc..you might want a corner allocated to your goodself to recreate the G&SW? Regarding your post re your health Jock I am sorry to hear of your problems but regardless of this you obviously have much to offer as regards your Dads memoirs. You do need to jot these things down as they come to you and pass them on to share. My own dad who passed away in 2010 worked for the mod during the war and was an electrician working on warships usually on the Clyde..patching them up after encounters with the enemy and fitting degaussing equipment etc. He told me many stories including when they worked round the clock to refit the Ohio one of two new fast Texaco tankers borrowed from the US because they were able to maintain a much higher speed than anything we had here and therefore would hopefully have a better chance with their naval escorts of reaching and liberating Malta. They duplicated generation equipment and many other systems on the ship which was its saviour as after taking many hits from ariel attack it eventually limped into Malta on back up power with its cargo of aviation fuel for the Spitfires based there. The liberation of Malta is a famous story and a film was made of the event but it was great to hear it from someone who was there..there were also many other often hilarious stories as you can imagine but I failed to record most of these and I regret it. We look forward to more of your dads anecdotes Jock…get scribbling! Dave

Its just that its such a complimicated bag of spanners you are the only one in our midst that would have half an idea how all this works. Just a thought..Mr D our master trackbuilder reckons by going up to EM and extending the check rails right round the layout we could run dual EM/16.5..would let you bring your toys from next door for a run round a real train set…no three links allowed though..

Wow…what compliments!..and thank you all. Yes its at Wakefield this year but as its a Friday opening show we had explained that we might not be completely up and running by opening time as its a 4 hour build..after a 4 hr drive..! Talk about pressure..it better perform ok now. Make yourselves known..I am Davy S..there will also be Davy F of bufferstop fame..Lanarkshire Model Supplies?!..plus SCRSG of this forum will also be operating. We are a small group..single figure membership.. so almost the whole lot of us will be in attendance. We are in great company this year with some seriously good names also in attendance..hope I can escape to have decent look round. Alloa has not really been run properly since Warley last November as we have been working on a new layout so next few weeks will have to be spent checking and fettling and hopefully everything ok. Dave.

Thanks for the compliment Derek..yes we fill the baseboard joints with flock to disguise them when at shows and at 34ft the layout has a fair few but it works pretty well. Of course its usually me below unbolting the things at the end of the show that gets an eyeful when they are parted! I also like the B&W images and feel they can be more effective for certain situations. I know this is not the thread for posting images so apologies in advance…cant resist. Sorry for getting 'sidetracked'.. Thanks Dave

Ah..the blue Alexanders bus gave it away..

Thanks to all for some very nice comments and also for helping to make sense of the various 4mm standards. I genuinely think 4mm s/f if it does what it says on the tin is the way to go for a large layout with large amounts of existing kits and rtr stock. We have a new large layout under construction at the moment and some of the mainline points have recently been constructed by one of the members so be interesting to see how they compare and and how well stock runs through. As said the existing layout was built in 2007 to 4mm fine scale and track construction left to one guy who took the task on..and made a cracking job considering it was his first attempt ..but i think what has probably happened is that the flange ways have been opened out down to trial and error to accept our stock. We occasionally have to redo a btb but its not often suggesting that the track had been altered to suit..it does run well though and operates intensively all day long at exhibitions. I will be having a closer look at the critical gaps at the next visit..be interesting. Apologies if I am responsible for any confrontational posts..certainly not intended. Thanks again..and a few more pics of train set and track. Dave. New project..ready for track..decisions decisions..!! Now listen here..I won't tell you again..its EM! ( track building according to the prophet Mr F.)

Hi Martin I suspect you may be right on this one..as said I didn't build the track but was the work of one guy. I do understand the logic in the btb needing to be adjusted but apart from a few most stock was as built and rtr and does run well. I will look more closely at the flangeways next visit as said this was built a good few years ago with the gauges supplied then. Knew this would be can of worms! On the P4/EM issue I accept that both can work well as mentioned layouts like Charlotte Road and Mostyn to name the two that I have watched and been very impressed with do however seem to be in the minority and the level of engineering employed in their chassis is I am sure part of their success. I agree that compensation can be seen as 'compensating' for less than perfect track however the finer we go the more critical every gap becomes and it is only my opinion but I do feel it is just too critical in P4 to allow a large layout to operate satisfactorily under exhibition conditions where hall temperature and other factors can affect this scale more so than the others..that is the reason I would probably opt for EM. Off to measure the trainset now. Dave

Our current layout has enjoyed success at high quality shows all over the country including Wigan..Stafford..Aylesbury and many many more. We have been on the covers of Model Railway Journal and Hornby Magazine and had articles in both. I have lost count of the times I have been asked if the layout is EM. Point of all this is that the track work which is hand built regardless of what name you give it..is 16.5 with EM flangeways..EM minus 1.7! We didn't see the need to go down to 16.2 when everything from latest rtr to kitbuilkt runs perfectly. Its a large layout 34ft long with some complex track work which includes scissors crossovers diamonds etc plus trains run at scale speeds and pull realistic loads all with excellent reliability. If it wasn't the case we wouldn't have had the success we have enjoyed. We possibly built it in ignorance of the much talked about 4mm sf as it was constructed back in 2007. It was also the groups first attempt at hand built track and was more or less left to one individual to construct as he saw fit.. however it all works and works well. We are currently constructing a new large exhibition layout and see no need to change the standards employed on the present layout as running and reliability are excellent however we all agree that if a change was to be made then EM would be the preference..there are two large EM layouts under construction by individual members within the group..not P4 as actual running of scale length trains at scale speeds will be required and P4 just doesn't convince that it can deliver on that without extensive reworking/replacing of chassis and compensation and with perhaps a hundred odd locos already built it would be a formidable task. I know this last statement is controversial and I also know layouts such as Charlotte Rd and Mostyn do run just such trains and superbly well but they seem to be in the minority suggesting that P4 is more suited to smaller less intensively worked layouts. I am impressed by the standards of P4 modelling..you couldn't not be.. and admire the guys that can make it work..but usually it is down to their skills in chassis construction and compensation but as said for our large layout it is just too much to consider. This is an interesting thread but sometimes i think we overcomplicate things..if it looks reasonable and and works well..why change? Couple of pics of our old first attempt hand built track that has served us well..BRMSB?..DOGA.?.John the track builder special?

David thanks for the kind words. Just a thought..why don't you enlist the help of a fellow modeller to build your points for you? Most layouts our own included rely on a few guys with differing skills. You are obviously very skilled in creating the buildings and infrastructure which many would agree is probably the hardest part..I know more guys that can build points than turn out buildings like yours. Its a difficult task to take on the buildings.. track.. electrics and so on and the normal way of things would be to enlist help. I know you are doing this yourself but I am also sure there would be guys out there willing to lend a hand with the track to see this through to completion…and you will undoubtedly make new friends and acquaintances too..what this great hobby is all about. Another thought..theres bound to be someone out there that can build track but is struggling with their buildings..perhaps a trade? Our new project will be SMP as its performed faultlessly on the existing trainset for 7 years under exhibition conditions..good stuff indeed. You also say you don't get to many shows..might I suggest you try and attend the next fairly big one or more importantly one that has demonstrators attending as apart from being able to sit down and watch points being put together..have the mysteries of soldering explained.. you will receive loads of great advice from skilled guys very willing to talk to you. Plus you may end up with a contact to help out with the track as already suggested. Its very rewarding doing this yourself I am sure but its probably even more so if you can share it with new like minded friends. Give it a thought. Dave

Hi David..no there isn't a layout thread and we don't have a website although we have exhibited all over the country with Alloa. Reason for this lack of publicity is that we are not a club as such but only a very small group with 8 members and a few of country members..all like minded modellers. Alloa is modelled accurately on the original station in Scotlands central belt and depicts the era around 1960. The layout was conceived and built with a nucleus of only 4 guys..I came later and was number 5 so didn't have a lot to do with the track and buildings. We have been on the exhibition circuit every year since its first outing in 2008 and include apart from Glasgow..Doncaster/Wigan/Blyth/Stafford/Aylesbury/Warley plus a few shows north of the border. We feel very fortunate in having been invited to what we see as some of the countries premier shows..a huge compliment for the guys and one which we are very grateful for. We have had a lot of success with it and at the last outing which was last year at Warley we lifted the Bachmann cup against some fantastic competition..so someone must like it!..we also were awarded the Signalling Society award for best signalled layout. They do all work..even the repeaters that the public cant see! Next show is Wakefield this November followed by the Modelrail Scotland 50th anniversary show at Glasgow in Feb. We are at the moment laying down the baseboards for Son of Alloa..another central Scottish layout but this time mainline with loads of scope for east and west coast pacifics along with all the other WDs and Jumbos etc. It will be larger than Alloa at over 40feet..Alloa is 34feet and should be a cracking exhibition layout with loads going on and one which will hopefully be invited south to re attend some of the great shows where we have already exhibited Alloa. I am sure I have posted pics in various threads like 'How realistic are your models' but if you click on my name/avatar and then Gallery there are good few in there. Meantime a few that include images of our humble shed..not quite in the same league as 64B! The start of the new layout. We will hopefully post on a new thread and keep it updated as it progresses meantime the 40 odd foot boards are complete and looking great. A definite benefit in having a skilled joiner in your midst!

David you might be surprised at your hidden skills and it costs little to find out. I would be feeling the same or probably more so if I was tasked with the job of building the 64B shed and coaling tower. You obviously looked at the task in hand.. broke it down then started at the beginning methodically adding detail..and ended up with a great result. Pointwork is similar…stick your template down with double sided tape and snip the copper clad sleepers to length and place them on the plan. Nothing hard about that..then start with the straight length of rail and solder it to the sleepers as per the plan and keep it straight with a straight edge. Then comes the tricky part as in the point Vee but you can buy Vees if you feel the need. You will of course need to have purchased gauges and remember the critical measurement for placing check rails is not the gap between them and the adjacent rail but the distance from the opposite running rail..again there is a gauge to keep this correct. You will of course need to have decided on either 16.5 or the popularly talked about 16.2..we had built ours to 16.5 and it has run faultlessly with both rtr stock and kit built. My preference is 16.5 purely because of our good experience of it working well but in your case either I am sure will be good although if you have short lengths of straight rail between points this will be 16.5 so your choice but I would trend to keep it all the same. Anyway there are loads of tutorials online but just make sure you pick the simplest to follow and avoid the multi chaired scale jobs..a true scale crossover will have many different types and lengths of chairs..ignore this for the time being and make do with a blob of solder…it will still look a million times better than the toylike appearance of ready built points with overlarge flange ways..the root of bad running..plus it will be much much cheaper. You say you want the most authentic look possible..well once you have built one or two and the sky's the limit and you will be able to lay down track work with short and long and curved points to exactly fit your plans..not the other way about. You also mention cost..a handbuilt copperclad point is a fraction the price of a Peco point so win win. I might sound like I am an expert in this field but I am certainly not..I don't build the points on our layout as we have at least a couple of guys with better skills than me who do a great job and are obviously given this task. I have watched them often enough though to have the confidence that I could hopefully produce something reasonable as really it isn't the black art many would suggest. If you are reasonably competent with a soldering iron..and by that I mean can tack a bit of rail to a sleeper then you must at least try. Next show you are at buy some rail and copper clad sleepers. I think I mentioned C&L but the materials I have here for my own efforts are a pack of SMP Code 75 Bullhead (12 yards) plus SMP CCS4-FG 4mm PCB fibreglass sleeper strip 12" lengths and 18 per pack. Also a box of SMP type J straight track in yard lengths to connect everything up. Thats a lot of rail and track and would probably fit out your entire shed and at a fraction of the cost of Peco. Winters coming and you can sit at the dining room table if you can convince the cat to leave a space and play around with a basic point to your hearts content and probability will costless than a quid..so if it goes in the bin as is likely then nothing lost..the next one will be better and by number four you will be proudly running a wagon back and forth across it. Hope this helps. Dave

Jim I struggled to think where the location might have been..Strathbungo perhaps?..anyway made me smile too. There was of course as I am sure you know a plan to run a short branch from the line just after Thortonhall..EK side. Aparrently a connection was laid to serve a siding and it was from this location the line would have continued I believe. I have been told the evidence is still visible although I have not looked. There was a nice layout back in McLellan Galleries days named the Eaglesham Light Railway nicely modelled by a couple of friends. Don't know if its still stored somewhere but it depicted what might have been and many of the buildings around the central area of Eaglesham were modelled and very nice too from memory. I actually have a video of this layout so it must have been after 1979 as that was when the excellent Betamax portable system burst on to the scene..just in time to capture Deltics at York with the accompanying sound….I digress. Dave.