Junctionmad

I see , yes thanks ,

so without a fouling bar or track circuit locking how is that achieved. other then either locking in the box , or slotted with signals ( which have nothing to do with the FPL per se), whats stops the signalman with an economical FPL from just releasing lever. If he's stopped by signal or box interlocking, he's stopped from releasing the lever anyway. I can see the point of a seperate locking lever, as it acts as a consciousness decision to release the FPL and then pull the point lever. But in an economical FPL, what additional protection is being added in the absence of any other form of locking. It seems to me to be a " rule bender" , i.e. the physical point lock is present , but in fact no additional safety has been added. are you saying that the only purpose is to add a " dubious" additional protection preventing the point blades moving under their own volition , rather then an additional to locking safety

Yes this is my point I suppose, I have seen installations with and without fouling bars. But fouling bars as I understand it were primarily installed because of sight lines to the box, meant the signalman couldn't determine where the train was standing. the classic case being engine run arounds etc I also understand these were phased out in favour of track circuit protection. I can see the point of FPLs if you ALWAYS have fouling or track circuits, but cant see the point if not. What protection was added, by FPLs on their own , especially since many point blades were slotted with the appropriate signal anyway

Yes I have usually seen the relevant signal slotted with the point /FPL. , though not always. I always thought the idea of the lock lever was to prevent the point lever being pulled. , ie that the tappett locking in the cabin was used. With a single lever I don't see the advantage of FPL.s. Was it that they were always paired with fouling bars or track circuit protection ?

I understand this part, But the idea of an FPL was that the point lever couldn't be unlocked without releasing a lock lever. IN an economical FPL, cant the signal man , just release the combined lever at any stage and the point moves and re-locks. was track circuiting rather then fouling bars then used to ensure the point couldn't be moved. Ecomonical FPLs seem to me to be kinda rule benders, i.e. a lock is placed on the points, but infact its not in any way independent to the mechanism that moved the blades The reason I ask is I'm modelling irish railways in the 70-80s and in ireland economical FPLs were very common , right up till they were removed post 2000

sorrr for waking up an old thread, but in reference to the LNER drawing of an economical facing point lock, could someone explain how it actually work. I dont believe they all came with fouling bars as well did they. SO how does a single lever in the box , act as a lock and a point lever at the same time ????