Derekstuart

Thanks all. Much appreciated, especially the correction about the re-numbering.

Hello all

Following an interesting discussion on youtube about a strange box on 86103, I remember that it was once E3173 and was involved in high speed testing for the HST nose cone (picture below).

http://www.traintesting.com/images/E3173 nose cone Railwaydave Flickr 19-6-71.jpg

This came about as someone asked what the 'box' was at the non-pan end. In this photo you can clearly see it has a clear window or lens. My question is: was this connected to the HST nose test and if so, how? ie was it to view the behaviour of the pantograph in the airflow from the temporary nose? If so then does this indicate that at this time they were thinging about using that same nose cone on an electric version of the HST? Or is it simmply that this loco was being used for multiple tests, such as testing the Brecknell Willis pan, which shown here when it must have been quite new technology.

TIA.

Thanks @CWJ and @Ken.W much appreciated and that is what I thought-ish.

I think CWJ DOES deserve some bonus points as at least some power cars had twin sets fitted later- presumably under privatisation era, but let us not go there as time stopped in 1994 for me, thanks.

Ken, thanks- can I clarify that if you are moving a single power car then you just disconnect as you would any locomotive and then switch the ETS on, just for battery charging?

What a career you must have had. To be a HST Driver is to railways what Concord Captain is to airlines- and you've seen the HST pretty much from start to end. My Dad was a HST Instructor when they were new (Kings Cross) and I had many good days out at the sharp end. Even now the sound of a Valenta spooling up raises the hairs on my neck.

We rarely went North of Doncaster, but on occasions made it to the Tyne; I'll not forget my tour around Gateshead depot nor the (completely un-necessary) 'test trip' with a Brush 4 around the loop (King Edward Bridge and High Level Bridge?)  just because a bored Engineer and Driver wanted to show myself and a couple of other visitors what it looked like- I'm not sure they'd get away with that now. God's Country indeed.

Thanks again both for the info.

Hello all...

I wonder if anyone qualified on HSTs- Driver, Engineer, expert enthusiast... could please answer the following. It is from a quite pointless thread on a video sharing channel, but I must admit to being curious now. NB I am really asking about BR days, when the HSTs ruled the ECML and were shiny blue, yellow and off-white and made by God himself.

1. When starting a HST set (assume it has already been in service and is shutdown at a terminus). I know you start the rear PC as that triggers it to provide the ETS; is the leading PC started at the same time or is it started seperately on local buttons)

2. Is there a specific reason for running ETS from the rear and if a HST set is reversed at any point are there any consequences of the ETS PC now being at the front?
3. When running a HST set with the rear PC missing (as opposed to shut down DIT) or when running a PC light/ with barrier van, what if anything needs to be done to the PC to enable that; I don't mean disconnecting the pipes and jumpers, I mean anything within the PC? I seem to remember something when I sat in a HST training session 40 years ago about the rear PC servicing some of the ancilliaries on the leading PC via the ETS.
4. As a bonus question for extra points: Why were the PCs only fitted with one MRP and BP whereas within the rake the MK3s had brake pipes both sides?

Thanks in advance any info appreciated.
 

@AMD8806 hello. Jim Smith Wright of P4newstreet.com has produced an etch to convert the Bratchell model to a /1.

Here's some details of the kit. I haven't seen it or used it personally, but JWS is something of an expert and there's plenty of pictures on his website.

http://extra.southernelectric.org.uk/modelling/news/2008-bratchell-317-conversion-kit.html

I hope that helps. If you go to Jim's website and ask him, he's one of the most helpful and friendly modellers out there.

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Just now, bodmin16 said:

 

This reminds me of some of the stations I encountered in Bulgaria. Particularly one called 'Bu**eroff'... Now before moderators get upset that is exactly how it was pronounced in English, the local spelling being impossible on a European QWERTY board.

BTW I wonder how many Western tourists can say they've driven a Bulgarian train at 90 MPH down past the communist (Bulgarian/ Russian) Black Sea Naval dockyards during the height of the cold war.

I'm surprised no one has mentioned (unless I've missed it) Liverpool Street. It has had 1500v wired to SOME of the platforms since nineteen hundred and black&white, with most of its platforms staying wonderfully wire free until the 1980s.

Terminus stations with 4 or more platforms, each one only capable of taking one locomotive and a couple of coaches.

On 25/03/2023 at 23:10, adb968008 said:

it moved from Railfreight Power station related duties to East Coast Infrastructure duties.

 

The work of the coal 31’s was taken over by class 60’s.

 

RfC obviously wanted the name, but not the loco, presumably it wasnt in the best condition, or as an infrastructure loco its life was lengthened by being less “front line”.

 

31’s in general are really knackered, even the preserved ones… they never got a mid life overhaul unlike 37/47/50 did, and really were no better than 25’s and 40’s for condition in the mid1980’s.. yet they ran most of them for another decade, and a few for another 3 decades !
 

Presumably despite being 5+ years older than 25’s, BR chose 31’s instead of 25’s because the engine was a decade younger, and more similar to 37’s…, but that youthful engine hid the decay of the rest of the loco… which was really an over weight (106t vs a class 25’s 73t, class 37 100t) middle aged Bo-Bo disguised by that centre axle (A1A-A1A) making it pretend to be a Co-Co, but a 37 it certainly was not… it was 4 powered axles dragging a 1/3rd more weight than a class 25 about, with a 1/3rd less powered axles with a smaller hp output of a 37).

 

 

By the 1990s even the 31/4’s were lethally unreliable… RR would regularly use them in pairs on 4 /5 coach trains, as insurance, but even moved them on to infrastructure work (31/5’s) as soon as 37/4’s came available.

 

 

EDIT: Posted in haste. Life is too short.

I swear that if and when I ever complete a layout to exhibition standard I'm going to modify a VGA with Sprinter/Pacer couplings and drag it around behind a Hornby 142 Pacer, whilst telling everyone straight-faced that this carried on until the early 2000s and that 20+ metre Sprinters could drag two VGAs behind.

10 hours ago, Jeremy C said:

Whenever you release the brakes, you must ensure that the train pipe pressure returns to 65 psi (or whatever the standard is), and allow time for the carriage auxiliary reservoirs to fully recharge before making a second brake application.

 

1 hour ago, DY444 said:

Not loco hauled stock in the normal sense but the SR 4TCs had triple valves and so when hauled by, or worked in push-pull formations with, locomotives other than 73s (which had EP brakes), there was no graduated release available. 

Now that you write this, I seem to recall being told something similar/ same in relation to the Cannon Street crash some years back. The Driver had apparently made several brake applications (which could be done on one class but not on the one that crashed, IIRC).

Thanks again everyone. That's explained it all perfectly and I'm sure others will go on to read and understand as a result.

PS I am a fully qualified commercial vehicle mechanic and our air brake systems are much more simplified, as you'd expect. Foot brake needs air pressure to apply the brakes and park brake needs air pressure to release them. Aside from anti-compounding valves and relays- which themselves are straight forward anyway- the system really is as straight forward as it seems, which you need when you're constantly swapping one pedal for the other on a busy road.

Many thanks everyone. I recognise some of the terminology and it's this triple valve thingy that I remember being the reason why braking cannot be reduced without release. It's WHY that it that's the puzzler. But I think it will be in one of my Dad's old training manuals from when he was an Instructor- now that I know what to look for.

Many thanks again. A tremendous level of knowledge on this website.

Derek

25 minutes ago, Matt C said:

 

 

@Derekstuart

 

Click on page one of this very topic and click on the big black link in @AY Mod s first post. 

Thanks Matt. I clicked the link last night but... but... it was late and... err... I was not expecting all that so I.... it was late... Many thanks.

26 minutes ago, russ p said:

 

Tom Robertson the last whitby Stationmaster used to do that whilst the drivers were at the chip shops or other establishments in the town which mainly served liquid! 

Tom was a great bloke and after retirement from BR was full time staff on the NYMR in the early 80s

Was he a qualified Driver or was that a case that it was that far from the real World that nobody minded too much? I suppose there's nothing wrong with it- 600 BHP on a power twin for what 60 tons of DMU... that's a fair bit of power left for the train being shunted.

Opinion will be divided 22 ways, but KOYLI is surely a celebrity locomotive best known for its repaint into green post 'withdrawal' when it went out on specials. I'm a little surprise (not a criticism at all, just observation) that it's not being released by Locomotion in its preserved state.

I've not seen Accurascale for real, only on screen, but they look in a league of their own.

Re: shunting with DMUs, although I've yet to see any photographic evidence, there is a significant evidence- including statements from railwaymen of the location and era- that when Whitby lost its engine stable that DMUs were occasionally used to shunt the yard. Having been researching this location for well over a decade, I'm inclined to believe the anecdotal evidence.

@russ p might have a comment to make on this perhaps.

On 03/04/2023 at 19:16, russ p said:

Got a step closer to getting the maestro back on the road today refitted the instruments hand got it talking through thre new blaupunkt bremen stereo 

 

 

Good God. As a former Montego owner (albeit briefly) I can imagine what work has gone into presenting this car in this way. Oh and as for the dashboard, yes I remember them. How advanced they were in the day. I've still got one of my Rovers, which sort of inherited their looks and mechanics. Wonderful cars.

I know 30 seconds after pressing submit reply I am going to find the answer anyway, but...

where does one subscribe to the paid options for the forum, please? It's clearly staring me right in the face. I've found an advert for premium, but it seems gold is the top one and apart from wanting to get the best experience, I want to try and support the forum. Seems fair- a lot of forum for not much money.,

But it's a secret that's eluding me.

TIA

Derek

I've just re-joined 10 years after I set out to complete a project that I estimated would take 5 years. I haven't started yet.

In that time a whole generation of new layouts and models have appeared.

Happy birtday to RMW/Andy.

Hello

Could I ask any Driver/ Guard/ Engineer/ knowledgeable person a few questions that have been puzzling me, please?

1. Why have a separate locomotive brake control when, as I understand it, the train brake control will work fine when there's no train connected. I'm sure there's a good reason.

2. Why- at least on some classes- can you not reduce braking and instead have to release the brake and then re-apply to the appropriate level.

3. When coupling a locomotive to stock, I know you have to test the brakes. As I understand it this is applying the loco brake (see 1?) or hand brake, releasing the train brake then someone opening the train brake (red?) cock at the other end to see if air comes out and in doing so the Driver/ Guard notes the TB pressure dropping. Is that correct or is there anything else?

Many thanks in advance for this question of idle curiosity; I'm sure there's not only a good reason for 1 and 2.

Derek

Paul, you don't need to model the whole storage tanks though- you can just show the front in half or quarter relief, or even pictured as part of the back scene. If you have a look at Kings Cross lower depot and see the way the tanks are set back, away- you could use similar and it would make a good scenic break.

On 04/04/2023 at 11:43, Derekl said:

If you are thinking of Ernest Marples, it was Marples Ringway, responsible for much road and motorway building in the period. He was said to have sold his shares, but it was rumoured that he sold them to his wife! (Possibly not true). He seems to have been a character. After his stint in government, he fled to France owing a small fortune in unpaid tax

It was not only a road building company, but the largest in UK and one of the World's largest outside of USA, also having contracts in the former Empire.

It is very trued that he sold his shares to his wife; this is public record.

An interesting point is that in the late 90s I was working for a company that managed aspects of civil engineering and it appears that some of the bridges in North London- Hendon and Brent Cross- when they had to dig into them to repair it seems that some railway ballast and old rail had mysteriously found its way in as a sort of pseudo ferro-concrete. I can speculate how, but not prove it. I could also speculate that he charged BR to dispose of what became free building material.

As for him fleeing yes, he left in the middle of the night for Monaco, only returning when he was dying and needed the NHS.

1 hour ago, PjKing1 said:

That sounds far easier I’ll definitely be giving it a go John, a new batch of chairs and rail arrived yesterday so I’ll be cracking on with my track building next week hopefully.

 

Paul

Paul, where are you getting your supplies from CL or from one of the scale organisations? Any recommendations? I really don't mind how long it takes- next day, next week, next month, but I have to try and organise delivery for the day(s) where I happen to be home, which is not very often.