Derekstuart

No, sorry you misunderstand. What I meant was that I used varnish to seal the PVA- but the varnish was too smooth for the WS to adhere to it. You could see a definite line between the two (different refractive index)

Forgive me if I appear to be trying to teach granny to suck eggs. I have built many micro planks now and have experimented with a lot of these things- it is bloody annoying when it doesn't work, and in my case, I just move onto a new bit of wood and try again- to have it damage your layout is far more serious. Purely as an academic point, I tried plastering some wood with PVA and then when dry, sealing it with yacht varnish. I have put WS water over the top of this and there's no sign of cloudiness- BUT I don't think the WS is going to adhere to the varnish. I think perhaps tomorrow I will repeat it but sand the surface of the varnish first. I don't know if that info helps at all (please feel free to say so if it's no use)

Have you thought about yacht varnish? I don't think you can go far wrong with that. That WS water seems to be very temperamental. From my limited experiment with ez water, I didn't get on with it at all.

I know you were trying to undermine my quite valid point, but I have to say that your response did make me laugh. Although my sense of humour may or may not also be defective.

It will be interesting to see the results.

Is it worth trying a bit on a PVA contaminated surface first to see what happens?

Cheers Russ Yes that is correct with PVA- it doesn't matter if it is dry or not and for how long. Any contact will cause cloudiness. The only way that I've found to overcome that (I can do all the engineering/scientific bits of modelling even though I can't do the artistic) is to seal it with something like Ronseal yacht varnish and then put the water over the top. How deep have you made it? perhaps if it's thin enough, paint it in sort of rivery-greenybrown, seal it with varnish and then drop in another WS water coat- very thin so if it does it again then you can repeat the painting. I like the way you did the path- the whole 'country' part of the layout looks pretty damned good as it happens.

You've managed to cram an awful lot of small detail into those last few photos. The colour gradient between the ground scatter colours and I rather like that path in the church yard- it looks like it's been formed from years of walking along it- rather than the usual model version of "a thin meandering band where no scatter was glued in". What did you use for the water?

Well if you are saying that the colour is off, I assume that was based upon inspecting the model. Every computer will display colour slightly different and that is without considering the way the photograph was taken. Likewise, just an observation not a nit pick. But I think RT are pretty good at accuracy.

Thanks Royaloak. A mine of information as usual. --- It is really tempting to bu one of these (when available) and repaint it back into its 'proper' colours of light blue, dark blue and a bit of white. But I've been advised (even by Mr P) that some glazing is well glued in and maybe not so easy to remove. Does anyone have any experience of this?

BTW one small question about them- did the real ones ever have white painted dampers and brackets? Normally these when new are blue or red. I've never seen white ones (small point, easily resolved if not correct)

GW Have the arriva models already been released then? I thought they hadn't- or are you going by the colour reproduction in magazines and on the internet? The Northern and First ones have won an awful lot of praise for their accuracy. One thing you cannot fault RT on is pursuit of accuracy and authenticity. I would go as far as to say if there is a difference, it is probably the real Arriva colours that are wrong.

Paul, a slightly more sensible question (well, comparatively speaking) From all your photos, would you give an opinion on what the minimum length that can be used properly for a photographic plank? I thought 2ft would do it, but it now I've just found no matter what angle I take from it comes out rubbish.

I suppose you're going to start WAXing lyrical about the candle then?

Did you not find making a candle holder an 'illuminating' experience then?

With only 4 carriages? It's surprising it doesn't take off. I think this is the first time I've seen this loco in blue with BOTH cabs attached. Great photo.

It's all academic anyway. 1. No one is going to take action over £10 (or £20 in this case) 2. You are buying a model train. Not Mr Petty's personality. 3. RT need to make profit or there won't be a new release. I know how you feel about principle. I have this morning argued over 10 pence change in the garage this morning. He was short of change but rather than ASK me if I minded, he just assumed it would be OK... After forcing him to go speak with the manager, he came back with my 10p- only for me to tell him that it wasn't a problem and that he could keep it if he was low on change, but it was the principle. The moral of that tale is thus: 1. If you go to this BP just off the motorway in Hemel Hempstead and you're 10p short on something- there should be mine sitting on the counter. Please feel free... 2. If you were in this BP just of the motorway in Hemel Hempstead this morning and were really narked at being stuck in a queue whilst a customer argued over 10p, my apologies. Seriosuly though, Dale. If you are happy to pay the extra, pay it and move on with life. Don't get too tied up on principle as if you do that each time you feel aggrieved then you will end up the worse for it. Trust me- I know from experience If you look through the small suppliers section here you will see that RT isn't that bad at all!

Thanks John I found out the hard way once when painting a commercial vehicle that painting 2pk over rubbed down coach enamel was not a good move! Looked lovely... for 24 hours! I use HMG paint in the workshop now (same people who make Railmatch paints) and their primer is fine, as is their paints.... in fact (no help for models) their brush coach enamel is one of the best in the world. There was one other good one- they used to use it for 10 downing street door- can't recall its name, but it's gone now.

Mike **Purely for the academic debate**, what is your reason for believing that the pre-authorisation of the card does not count as binding? (you may or may not be right, I am not a CC Judge and if there's a precedent set on this, I am not aware of it). Regarding Sagepay- I use this for one of my companies and I have never heard of this issue- could you enlighten me as to what to look for please? **Purely for reality**, this model is equivelant to a bach/by loco AND carriage for £120. It is still a bargain and is a damned good contender for the best RTR model ever. I have heard no one say a bad word about it. If Realtrack cannot make a profit- or even worse, make a loss, then there's a damned good chance that's the last release we will see. What I think might have got up the nose of the OP was the mannerism in which he was advised of the price increase. I ordered from DCK in its formative years a number of times, all barring once I had to chase my order with a "just doing it now" response. Perhaps not 10/10 for customer services or mannerisms. But you have to remember that throughout their history they have been pioneers. That 101 wasn't great by modern standards, but was pretty good back then- the 105 was- AND STILL IS- an excellent kit.... and now we see the 143/144. I think if you want a polished "Good morning and thank you for calling Realtrack/DCK, which department may I transfer you through to today?" type customer service then that is just not possible at the prices they are selling models for. I must admit that I would rather buy at an exhibition or via a dealer where I can go in dump some cash and walk away with a 143, but that's a personal preference and I do not know anyone who has had any major complaints about RT/DCK personally. I hope that constructive criticism of PR/customer services is taken in the spirit in which it is intended.

I think in fairness that if you got several real locos together (maybe not now but back in nineteen hundred and something) the colours would vary a little anyway. I know the BR paint was all supposed to be identical, but there would have been variations in it (the paint mixing wasn't all computer controlled like it is now), the application and the type of work the loco was used on, and of course whether it was a designated class 1 express or a freighter, so there will be variations (a class 1 express loco would receive daily washing whereas a freighter would be washed less frequently) and we know what chlorine based wash chemicals do to paint. So a little variation in model colours isn't a problem IMO. Thanks again for the advice.

Kris The aerosol was new, at room temperature and well shaken. But it had no covering properties to it at all. It ran off the edges and collected in puddles in grills etc. Like it was too thin. It was a new aerosol too. Steve, I have tried Halfords WHITE primer (as Railmatch is designed to go over their own white primer) as I thought that would give a better base for yellow. Do you put yellow directly onto the primer, or is it neccessary to use a full white paint first, as some recommend? I've also read that RM blue is not very good over white primer and people recommend red oxide of all things.... which won't help the yellow I wouldn't have thought.

Thanks Andy/James It's interesting that two people can have such different opinions on one product. I have never tried thinning with white spirit, but I will give that a go- I have a couple of bodies ready for painting- I will test white spirit on an offcut of plastic first as these are quite old and I'm not sure whether they will cope with it. Other than spirits damaging plastic, what's the worst that can happen? That I don't like the finish in which case out comes the modelstrip again and I try again. James, I've just tried some humbrol aerosol spray and it works fine for me, but the Railmatch ones don't. It must be something with your technique that makes it work for you- clearly you aren't alone otherwise they wouldn't make them. Thanks again for the comments. I think I will try the Railmatch jars that I already have, over a Halfords aerosol primer and see what happens. But I will also look out for Phoenix as they have a good reputation. Derek PS I've just noticed that in the area where the Halfords primer went over the original (Lima) finish, it's fine but over the RM primer, it has crazed. I haven't stripped the Lima paint off yet as this was really only to check for damage after removing handrails.

I have read many comments in old threads (quite old, so I didn't want to 'bump' them) about Railmatch paints and opinion is very polarised (though it seems that more people are at the negative pole). My question is- I hop- a little different to what has already been asked. I have tried the spray can of universal primer and I think I would have been better using a tar brush and a pint of milk. Very poor indeed. Although it's been a while since I've painted, I put on a lovely coat of smooth, even primer using Halfords white primer, so I don't think it is technique (CAN you do a primer coat wrong?) Now I've just invested in a new compressor and airbrush and have bought some jars of Railmatch enamel (the usual blue, yellow(!), white and falcon grey. My question is is it something fundamentally wrong with ALL Railmatch paint, or is it just the spray cans? From comments I've read here it seems that it isn't really all that popular (when I was last in this hobby 20 years ago, it was about all you could get in railway colours)- in other words should I let the spray can put me off the self-mix and spray paint or are they different? The odd thing is that the paint is made by HMG of Manchester and they are a well respected company and I use their automotive paint and they are extremely good. MAYBE this is a case of Howes stock rotation not being so good on slow lines (SPECULATION). I have tried the blue and yellow on scrap plastic and it looks ok, but that's a world away from painting a detailed loco. Any comments please?

Thanks Michael. You're a gent.

Michael, That is really very good of you indeed. Thank you. Would it be ok to download these? (for my own personal use and not re-distributed without your permission) I thought the framework was built out of different sizes, but I didn't realise by how much until I saw those close ups. I can see a multi pack of micro strip and a large (7mm roof fan) grill etch from Shawplan/EE will be needed. Long live the 60's. Thanks again Michael. Derek