LMS2968

There's just no pleasing some people!

Yes, Coach it does. There's such a wealth of detail in the layout I'd never got around to looking for a backscene!

I'll reserve my comments for when the other photos are uploaded, otherwise I'm in real danger of running out of superlatives!

Beautiful work, Jason.

It is most certainly a Black Five heading north out of Preston under the Fishergate bridge.

A friend of mine was a driver for Virgin at Longsight, but had been a driver on BR since the early 1970s and worked over the MSJ&A regularly; he was a bit surprised at the idea that a check rail was needed as he had no recollection of there ever being one. I've seen a photo by Jim Carter (copyrighted) of a Class 40 at the same spot, but it does not show one.

Nah, not dirty enough: you can still read the number!

Sorry, Jason!

I'm not aware of any Stanier engines ever running with the non-triangular rims, but concede that it might have happened.

These wheels were amongst the first things Stanier introduced on his arrival in 1932, and applied them not only to hias own engines but to left-over builds to earlier designs: Horwich Crabs, Baby Scots and, I think, Fowler Class 4 tanks. These wheel sets would then move around different engines within the class at overhauls and a mixture on the same engine was not unknown. On rebuilding, the Scots received many new parts as well as the boilers, and some seem to have picked up Stanier type wheels while others retained their originals.

The only non-Stanier wheels I can recall on a Stanier engine were on a couple of 8Fs which received WD 2-8-0 wheels, for some reason.

Ahh, good old 4767, for some time a resident of Bank Hall, so whether or not she might ever have found her way to Bacup, I couldn't say.

That valve gear looks just the sort of thing you'd lap up though, Jason!

Your assumptions are correct: Tare = unladen weight. The three figures were just for precision. There were 28 pounds (lb) in a quarter, four quarters in a hundredweight (cwt; 112lb), twenty hundredweight in a ton (2240lb).

Considering that no-one was that bothered when the wagons were being loaded, such precision seems a waste of time!

They're rough looking signs, are they?

I'd better ring Specsavers!

They sat on the former shed site, but in the open! South of the L&MR main line and east ot the Edge Hill - Wavertree curve. The line from Wapping on to the Circle dissected the shed yard, but at a higher level, of course.

Cab interior cream is one of those things I just do not remember. The interior walls could have been smoke blackened over the years, something that was likely to occur while standing on shed with a small fire and the door slightly ajar rather than on the open road. It's a bit like cabside numerals.......The 10" characters on the L&Y locos stood out (like on ER locos) for some reason and so must have been off-white while the rest were creamy-yellow, but for me it is all 54 years ago.

 

Incidentally, the L&Y 0-6-0 on my Avatar is heading a Bacup-Manchester Victoria train near Middleton Junction.

Cab interiors were painted cream in the works, and this happy situation lasted until the first fire was lit, after which they became noticeably darker. Back in 1968, like many an enthusiast, I spent a lot of time on various footplates. In 1969, I became involved with the 8F Society at Bridgnorth, and was amazed to find out that all those black cab interiors I'd seen should have been cream all along!

Basically, unless you got an ex-works engine, you'd never know!

The X aerial followed the BBC H aerial to accommodate ITV circa 1957. Then in the 1960s some towns went through a fad of not wanting aerials on roofs so they had to go in the attic.

And I thought I was only one old enough to remeber that!

 I'd say quite a while yet. I've just been asked to provide drawings of the class, whicj I've done.

brilliant work I admire your detailing skills

will you start on Euston next

David Wexford

No, they have to do all the route in between first!

I believe that this engine was finished in LMS 1946 lined black (but BR numbers and tender lettering) but immediately re-entered the paintshop to be turned out in BR blue livery. There is a photo on page 18 of Irwell's 'Book of.. Mk2' showing 6224 painted black with another, almost certainly 6232, behind - brand new fresh off. Their summary of the EHC shows 1/3/48 - 3/5/48 Heavy General, then 7/5/48 - 21/5/48 No Repair. Their livery table shows, '5/48 LMS lined black, and 5/48BR experimental blue.

The nameplates were, like most others, cast brass but originally the lettering and borders were chromium plated. At some point, the chrome was removed (or flaked off, then had to be removed) but I don't know a date for this. Background colours tended to vary between black, vermillion and, north of the border, blue. It can be very difficult to distinguish between red and black on B and W photos, however.

It gets complicated!

Running plate: 6230-34 and 6249-52 were built non-streamlined so had a continuous front running plate; 6220-6229 and 6235-6248 were built streamlined and had a front split running plate. 6253-6257 were built non-streamlined but with the split running plate from new, although it was very slightly different on 6256/57. But, just to confuse, following repiairs after the Harrow smash, 6242 re-entered traffic with a continuous front running plate.

Tenders: Streamlined tenders up to 6252 had higher front panel than non-streamlined tenders for 6230-34. They also had no rear running steps or handrails but had a rear ladder and twin filler holes. After destreamlining, the side panes extended a few inches behind the rear panel. The tenders for 6253-55 were non-streamlined but with the higher front panel; they were also part rivetted; those for 6256-57 were similar except for having the front panels lowered again, and had roller bearings. Unfortunately, tenders were swapped around and 6230-31 had ex-streamlined tenders from 1945 onwards. Their original tenders went to verious ex-streamlined engines, but 6249 ran with one of them in the late 1940s when still in plain black livery.

Livery: only 6232 and 6233 carried lined black LMS livery with non-streamlined tenders and continuous running plates.

I worked at Edge Hill in 1973 with the guard who caused all that. Funnily enough, his version of what happened differed slightly from that given in the report...

http://www.railwaysarchive.co.uk/documents/MoT_LimeStreet1949.pdf

It'll be getting renumbered and weathered, etc., in the not too distant future mate

Nah, Mate - ex-works. Sheds always sent their best engines away when told to transfer one to another shed!

They will be - after you've driven a couple of trains into them.....................................    

 

Cheers,

Mick

That happened a few times too!

PM sent

I wonder if with those small wheels and the balance weights the locos would lift off the rail rather more than was desirable ? I seem to remember reading that on high speed tests the "Kings" lifted off the rails about 1 inch.

 

Dennis

It was a Black Five which was slipped on greased rails to reach 104(?)mph. The wheels lifted 2.4 inches!

_{11th August 1968: last day of BR steam. Black Five 5110 passes Edge Hill on the final leg of the "15 Guinea Special", 1T57.}

_{http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n156/LMS2968/5110EdgeHillStn11-08-68001.jpg}

While DP2 looks similar to a Deltic I presume the internal framing is substantially different requiring a new shell?

I remember reading somewhere - alas, I can't remember where - that when EE were planning DP2, they used a Deltic bodyshell as they had one of these spare, so a conversion should not be too difficult.

On the other hand, I couldn't help wondering why they should have a spare shell; these not being all that cheap to build. Engineers must be able to work out all the moments and stresses so need to be good at maths. I'm a little surprised thay they couldn't count to 22!

You can applie to DVLA for a history of uour cars owners; I think it costs a fiver. https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/207533/MIS546.pdf