Mulgabill

3 minutes ago, Clive Mortimore said:

Yeah but no but yeah but no but, it is getting around to doing it.

 

 

Come on Clive...... we don't mind if you don't paint it...... yet.

TONY

24 minutes ago, Benbow said:

Is he P4 then?

I'm sure he's taller than that!

TONY

1 hour ago, St Enodoc said:

Yesterday and today I spent a good few hours working out the alignment of the single line between the curve in front of Wheal Veronica and Treloggan Junction.

 

Because of the relationship between Polperran, Treloggan Junction and Pentowan the location of the triangle itself is fixed, so I played around with graph paper, ruler, pencil, compasses and eraser to find a good route. There needs to be a bit of breathing space between the single line and the far end of Wheal Veronica, so I picked an arbitrary minimum value of 150mm (again) between the centre lines of the single line and the nearest siding, Wheal Veronica No 2. There will be transitions between all the curves and the intervening straights, so I worked with the templates for those too, also making up a new one that I didn't have before (30" radius, 0.5" shift which has a length of just under 19").

 

There also needs to be enough straight (or nearly straight) track between the future overbridge next to Wheal Veronica and Treloggan Junction for the two-coach Indian Queens Halt.

 

Eventually, after several iterations that involved extensive use of the eraser, I came up with an alignment that runs in front of Wheal Veronica with the gap between the tracks widening gradually before a curve to the left, the straight and then another curve to the right approaching Treloggan Junction.

 

Here's the first transition, coming off the long curve. This has a length of about 27" and a shift of 1", which helps to take the single line further away from Wheal Veronica.  There'll be about 200mm of straight track before the start of the next curve.

 

I changed the shiny Hornby wheels on the coal wagon, 490, for some old PC ones, which have a dull, darker, finish. The flanges and treads are too fine for layout operation but they are ideal for static models like this. I also removed the couplings but haven't done anything else to the wagon yet.

 

Finally, I tried the two different ways to shunt Wheal Veronica that we discussed last week. Getting the brake van to the other end at St Enodoc involved far too much messing about, so I won't be doing that. Next I augmented the two short china-clay trains to their final 6-wagon length and added a brake van at the loco end. I had worried that these trains might look a bit silly with two brake vans and only six wagons but as it turned out I don't think they do. 7446 had no trouble with the various moves on the incline either, so I'm pretty sure now that this will be the way we will go.

 

 

Here are SC2 and 490 at Wheal Veronica, waiting patiently for the next move. This will be some time away because a) there are no trains to or from Wheal Veronica in the Saturday sequence and b) our scheduled running session in two weeks' time might not take place, depending on whether the Government lifts the lockdown in Greater Sydney this coming Friday. We shall see.

 

.........  but you left off the before, an d after, pics of the rubber. Surely we

should see the evidence!

TONY

Hi Andy

I am inclined to agree with Stubby.

Horizontal storage, intuitively, is better for the scenics, with gravity working

in it's normal plane. Your original idea would have it working at 90 degrees

to the norm, and add to that vibration when it's moved. Not good.

As ever there is a question prompted by either method.

                            What do you envisage the over size of the trunk/chest to be?

With Helstonish I have 3 basic boards 1m x 500mm, which, in order to transport

it to SWAG Taunton, Were stacked using a modified pair of legs. This, for once

worked as envisaged, even though there was a discrepancy in board lengths.

(That doesn't happen very often). However, (to get to the point), the 3 boards

used the full height (app 900mm ) available. So does your plan allow sufficient

headroom for safe clearance of all your scenics? Alternatively you may end up

with a "wardrobe", full of layout.

Of course, you could maybe, look out for a genuine, ex GW,container.

TONY

5 hours ago, Johndc120 said:

Thanks Tony,

 

Here’s some pictures of the 6T yard crane, it is the same as the Helston one. Same as the 1T it’s one of our 3D printed items with then a few extra details added in nickel silver. It’s rarely seen in model form so it was something we definitely wanted and as you say they were pretty common place.this is the second version as I originally designed it from photos and a bit of guess work for the drive mechanism. After sharing some photos of the original one of the Pendon lot kindly shared some drawings and detailed shots of the workings

 

 

I have sold a few and this was one to a friend Barry Sargent who has done a nice job of painting it

 

That really is impressive, especially when painted.

I did see an Osbornes 4mm one at a Bristol show 3 or 4 yrs ago, but they didn't

have an OO one with them! (Nor did they reply to  couple of subsequent e-mails).

Not a patch on yours though.

Should you be thinking of selling any more, please may I join the queue?

Cheers, and thanks

TONY

Looks like some good progress here, and the shed crane is well thought

out operationally, a well as it's looks.

However, can you say a bit more about the 6 ton crane. They were so widely

used in GW goods yards, and I need one for my layout, based on Helston.

Or maybe I should nip down the road and search out an original, from Elmore.

All the best

TONY

18 hours ago, Andy Keane said:

Tony

Taking your words to heart I have simplified the fiddle yard - what do you think?

It does now use a double slip for two of the engine sidings but I think is better overall. There are now three engine sidings, two run around spurs and six roads, the longest of which will take six corridor carriages should I ever do that, all in the eight feet I have available.

regards

Andy

Looking good Andy.

I think the key things are that the FY is as flexible as possible, in use. And that it allows you

to run the trains you want, in the way you want. However it can be easy to attempt to be

too clever in what you can do in the FY, then find your options are limited in what you can

on the layout.

That was why I raised the query, because it's always better to have gone back and looked

again, before being committed.

Good to note that you have caught Paul's attention. Very useful.

TONY

But can an engineer do it using nails?

You are looking more closely than I did, so picking up detail that I haven't.

But I can see what you are saying, from the pic's. But where do you infer,

or know from, that they were sprung? If it's from the signal box diagram,

it could be that shows the normal position, rather than infers sprung.

Another small point your diagram shows signals  18 & 19 on a bracket,

where it was a single post.

If he doesn't look in here, you could pm Paul (5BarVT), who has been

helpful to me. He does have access to signalling diagrams, and is/was

a signal engineer.

Cheers

TONY

Looks good to me.

Good enough that I have printed out a copy for myself.

And re the pic you referenced before, I don't recall having seen that before. It

is certainly the clearest I have seen of that view particularly the up home/shunt

signal. Good spot there.

TONY

Thanks

TONY

22 hours ago, Andy Keane said:

I have been working on the track plan for the fiddle yard and have decided to put a bit of a gap between it and the entrance bridge. The aim is to be able to accomodate six coache trains in the yard when needed. I would aprreciate any comments on this layout - its all done in peco code 75. The four three way points at the end are to allow engines to run around but also permit longer trains to simply sit over the points if needed. The yard is eight feet overall by 15 inches wide.

Andy

Hi Andy

The plan is looking good, and I like both the angle of the station, and the slight curve.

Should look good, and realistic/

The fiddle yard looks good, if a little complex. I started with an 8' traverser FY, but found it tended

to get filled with stock, and the length wasn't of any great benefit. It got shortened in the corner

rebuild.

You could, perhaps, consider replacing the dead end FY pointwork, with a loco traverser.

It would save points (cost), and give longer stabling.

Just a thought.

With regard to your question re Helston bridge. Mine has a "hole" 80mm high x 75mm wide.

This gives clearance for everything I have run through it, on a 2 -3' curve. Mostly coaches

app 240-260mm length. But I did "run" a 12 wheel GW Restaurant car through earlier. No

problems laterally, just the normal problems keeping it on the tracks.

cheers

TONY

37 minutes ago, Stubby47 said:

 

Easton ?

Wherever, it was a long walk, from LM!

TONY

10 minutes ago, St Enodoc said:

Too early for hoods but the "fulls" were definitely sheeted.

 

I didn't know that Tony, thanks. I thought the sheets were just folded and placed in the empty wagons. I know vans were used to carry bagged clay.

I should add the caveat, that I'm not sure about dates that would apply. But

it certainly was the case at some periods.

TONY

But didn't the empties run without sheets, hence the inclusion of

a van, to carry the tarp's?

TONY

Well done Andy.

A great Muck up, when it could have been a right c*** up!

All the best

TONY

Have found the info quicker than expected,

The WSRA own the QB which currently coomprises

FO 3108  (Meteor)

RU  1909  (Orion)

RMB 1804  (Aries)

BSK  35408 (Jupiter)  Names in brackets, are those previously carried.

Additionally they also own

BCK 21174 (Phoenix) which previously ran in the QB, but which is now on hire

to WSR plc, along with 5 x TSO,

I have seen the QB run, mostly as an independent train, although there have been times

where its 3 or 4 coaches has been combined with a service train for the return journey. I

wonder if that might suggest a more economic operational option, for the future. Assuming

the staffing could be sorted, of course.

Mind you I'm not sure that dining by train, is currently at the top of the priorities, at the

moment, given capacity restrictions etc.

TONY

Just now, Joseph_Pestell said:

I am having a "senior moment" and can't think of the name of the station.

 

But the place where the SDJT are based has a pub next door that does a very fair Sunday lunch.

Washford.

And I think it's the Washford Inn.

As for the number of coaches, I don't recall seeing the QB operate with more than 4 recently.

And I recall reading that at least one of the originals had been replaced, and it was normal

for 1 to be spare/under repair.

Will try to check, but some of my WSR books are at the caravan.

TONY

1 hour ago, JohnR said:

It seems incredible that the WSR are losing money on their dining train!

 

It strikes me as being in the ideal position to market one - a line long enough that you can serve a decent two/three course meal in the time it takes to do the journey, with some cracking scenery, close to the motorway network at one end.

 

As for who would buy the stock, its unlikely that too many other lines could make use of the complete train in my opinion - for the reasons above. 

We are talking of 3 or max 4 coaches, maybe thats the problem. Not enough seats.

TONY

8 minutes ago, PenrithBeacon said:

I think the deal at Butlins is that meals are include. I would doubt if their customers would be willing to forego that.

re Butlins

It depends on what package you are on. The 1 week we stayed, many years ago, we were self catering.

(The railway element was predominently narrow gauge, except for a spectacular Class 37 back from

Barmouth, which was running 2 hrs late. I can hear the noise now, almost ampified by the darkness, as

the driver gunned it away from every station. He obviously wanted to get home!)

But there is also the chance to promote the meal on the train, as that special meal of the holiday, that

I suspect many of us would have.

TONY

1 hour ago, The Stationmaster said:

 

Steam Dreams seem to manage quite well by offering different levels of 'dining experience' irrespective of the colour of the rolling stock.  In fact I wouldn't mind betting that many of today's customers for this sort of thing wouldn't have a clue what a real Pullman livery and coach interior looked like unless they'd been on one of the VSOE trips.  We've done the Steam Dreams Pullman level meal etc once and it was pretty good although the vehicles were basically ordinary Mk1s.  We've also done a trip on a VSOE 'real Pullman' excursion - where (unless things have changed) you don't get hot food.  I also travelled on a real Pullman, albeit of the blue variety, back in the day so knew what real Pullman service and food was like and some of these contemporary concerns are well up to the mark (even if they don't do steak sandwiches).

 

What it's really all about for many punters is not just the name but far more importantly the experience, level of service, and quality of the food.  If you get the service and food right and do your marketing properly it must be almost a licence to print money and it would be one heck of a job not to make it a financial success particularly in a holiday area where it would n be a novelty for many folk.  And if it is good enough there will be things like 'Sunday lunch' etc repeat business from the locals - it's all about the product and the marketing, not really about the livery of the stock.

1 hour ago, woodenhead said:

Out on the network - a nice clean set of maroon Mk1s looks like a special train, on a heritage railway it is another set of coaches.

 

I know it's what is on the inside that counts and a good dining service will sell itself, but when you're not making the money then to me you need to advertise it loudly to generate more enquiries and for me that is a livery distinctive to everything else on the railway.

I don't want to stray down too much of a branchline, but as my highest educational pinacle

at one time made me a member of inst of Marketing, I am unusually at home here.

I think we are all basically on the same page. Mike (Stationmaster) is probably right, most of

the potential market are interested in the food, on a train. And as long as its all presented

well, food, staff, coaches, loco etc, they will be happy customers.

If part of your marketing plan, (promotion), plays on elite Pullman style, then a Pullman

livery becomes more important.

However this could put off a fair proportion of the potential client base, who simply don't

want to dress up, and pay significant premiums. So the marketing plan might, alternatively,

be aimed at a lower level, perhaps on more occasions, but more accessible. Bearing in mind

that one market segment for the WSR, in normal times, is the clientele of Butlins, who could

conceivably be enticed for a 2nd trip, inclusive of a meal, if promoted to them on their

train ride first time round.

The key thing that perhaps seems to be missing, may be the will to find a way to make it work,

more than it not being possible. The most unfortunate thing is that the good reputation

gained by the original, volunteer, operation seems to have been lost. This would need to be

re-established for the long term success of any new plan.

That would in turn require the will to want to run some sort of catering service, beyond the

standard tea/ coffee/snacks etc, and a coherent plan for it. Or the easy way, is sell off the stock,

and turn away a market segment that others are pandering to.

TONY

Playing devil's advocate.

It was a tired faux Pullman livery, and was a discordant element when formed

in  a train with normal stock. It would now give a better overall aesthetic, especially

as much of the fleet has also now been repainted. (learnt that terminology from CK).

Still can't understand why there isn't money to be earned, unless internal boundaries

are preventing the WSR "family" working together, again.

TONY

6 hours ago, Mulgabill said:

Re the QB, prior to my increased interest in the line apparently the WSRAssoc voted to

withdraw from commercial activities, in favour of the PLC. This lead to the PLC having

an agreement with the "local company" for catering services. The stock remains an asset

of the supporters association.

 

So catch 22

 

either run by PLC + caterers = loss; or WSRA would need to provide the

(volunteer) staff, in sufficient regular numbers, and rely on the PLC to run the train,

but counter to the non-commercial stance.

 

I'm left wondering why other railways are so keen on catering specials?

 

TONY

(The last line - very much tongue in cheek.)

Sorry, I omitted to say, the QB set was repainted last year, and has yet to work since, I believe. Now in a

very smart maroon livery, it is presumably up together mechanically also.

TONY

Re the QB, prior to my increased interest in the line apparently the WSRAssoc voted to

withdraw from commercial activities, in favour of the PLC. This lead to the PLC having

an agreement with the "local company" for catering services. The stock remains an asset

of the supporters association.

So catch 22

either run by PLC + caterers = loss; or WSRA would need to provide the

(volunteer) staff, in sufficient regular numbers, and rely on the PLC to run the train,

but counter to the non-commercial stance.

I'm left wondering why other railways are so keen on catering specials?

TONY

(The last line - very much tongue in cheek.)

1 hour ago, treggyman said:

Hi

 

Had a bit of time today so converted the 'drawing' into a shell.......

This when clad in due course with various plasticard sheets will hopefully look the part....

I normally do the corner posts out of square section & I may well do that again....

Having not used foamboard much for scratchbuilding I'm experimenting......

 

 

In due course I plan to do an interior so I will make a removable intermediate floor which may get fixed when finished.....There will probably be some sort of lighting so that the interior can be seen.....

But that's way in the future.....

 

Cheers Bill

Looking good Bill, but one small observation - I think the BA box has the doorway

at the back of the side wall, rather than centrally. This could mean the steps don't

need to protrude too far infront of the box. Could be worth a check, unless you've

plenty of room in front of the box.

Wish I was cracking on with stuff like you, I don't deem to get above muddeling

along at the moment.

Cheers

TONY