Chamby

Whenever anyone mentions the Master Cutler in the context of the ECML it always serves to remind of the sad situation of the GCLE in 1958, when the LMR started to run down the former GC. Some of my reference sources narrate that the Cutler was resurrected on the ECML in October 1958 and was introduced as a class 40 hauled Pullman service... six cars, two return trips per day to Sheffield Victoria. So I am intrigued to hear of it running through LB - presumably steam hauled - on a ‘Summer’s day in 1958’.... a trial run, perhaps? Phil.

The PECO slips are looking pretty much as I expected. As with the points, they are a bit of a curate’s egg, very much better than the existing streamline offering, but not quite what they could be, if they are aiming for prototypical accuracy. The EMGS/PECO points in development provide an interesting contrast. The EMGS guys were quoting a price for their points that is in the same ballpark as the PECO bullhead equivalent. Makes me think it might be viable for someone to do the same thing in 16.5mm... surely they would sell at least as well as an EM gauge version?

When would those photo’s in #29493 have been taken, Tony? They clearly pre-date the start of this thread in 2012!

I agree, sports halls are Not the best venues for setting up a level layout. Worst are the ones with springy floors, where every moving person will make the floor flex... and the layout, no matter how well you try and level it at the beginning of the day!

I made the trip upcountry this year to visit the Warley show, I think it’s the seventh or eighth year I have been, and it was probably the one I have enjoyed the most - because I think I have finally cracked how to get the most out of this monster exhibition. I arrived early on the Saturday, and went first to a couple of stands to pick up items that I thought might sell out quickly. Stirling single stowed safely in my bag (I admit it, the sound fitted version), I started at the back of the hall where things were nice and quiet, and slowly and methodically worked the aisles back towards the front of the hall. I spent a lot more time mooching around the smaller stands and demonstrations this year, chatting with the owners and demonstrators and learned a lot. It was great to finally meet Tony and Mo... you must have been very hoarse by the end of Sunday! I admire the patience and time you gave to people, as much as the standard of modelling. Much appreciated, thank you. The 3D prototype model of the new Deltic from Accurascale looked stunning, they are working hard to produce something special there. And again, nice guys on the stand sharing their vision and enthusiasm with ordinary types like me. They and Rapido really seem to be picking up momentum compared to the likes of Bachmann and Hornby, and I wish them success. I was less struck by the layouts this year. Liverpool Lime Street was the stand out layout for me, the attention to detail in the scenic modelling was stunning, and they always had stuff moving. A great example of how to operate a large exhibition layout. I also enjoyed a few of the smaller layouts like Exbury, whose owners also engaged with the public enthusiastically... and I even came away with a model-u figure of Ali (of blue spotted 50’s dress fame) for my own layout. Many otherwise excellent layouts though were let down by lack of up-front activity or constant fumbling hands re-railing or prodding stubborn locomotives. I came away with a strong sense that the social aspects of the hobby are really alive and well. It was the personal engagements that stood out for me this year. If we can keep that going, then railway modelling has a good future ahead of it. Back home, first impressions of the sound fitted Stirling Single are excellent. It needs a little fettling, and I will upgrade the speaker, but otherwise it sounds rather nice straight out of the box. Phil. Edited following Sir’s correction!

Fortunately as modellers, we don’t have the same problems with crank axles. So the P2 remains a beautiful locomotive to have in the stud. The implications for us remain however, regarding the consequences of said axles, if that indeed was the reason their operational sphere was restricted to north of Edinburgh, in the real world. It’s a good job we have rule 1, then, at least when nobody is looking! Edit: double post.

It is an interesting observation that the latest sound file from Locoman (usual disclaimer) is for an A4, and he has included a playable doppler effect for the chime. Things are developing all the time in this still relatively new field of the hobby. It is fair to say that those of us investing in sound fitted loco's have the same challenges and frustrations as many other aspects of the hobby. It is easy to fit sound these days... but it takes a real skill, patience and a 'good ear' to do it well, and inevitably there are limitations as to what can be achieved. There are very few sound products that you can just plug in and play, and get a top quality result. You usually need to fettle and refine the chip settings to get it right - things like matching the chuff rate to wheel rotation, carefully balancing the volumes of different sound effects, and a careful choice of speaker with enough bass to give the deep chuff, but taking care not to lose the higher frequency hiss. With many sound products it is a labour of love to get a satisfactory result. So similar to kit building, in some respects! Needless to say, the majority of annoying sound that you will observe at exhibitions will be 'plug in and play' versions. They will probably be on locomotives with plastic coal and the wrong lamps fitted (if any)... so please look at the fidelity of the model as a whole before making a judgement call on the use of sound. Phil.

DCC sound needs to be managed properly to work well and yes it can be hugely irritating if poorly used. Just leaving things running all day... it does start to grate on the ears after a surprisingly short time. I often turn sound off when loco’s have got up to speed and just enjoy the ‘clickety clack’. With DCC, sound is not compulsory even when fitted, simply press F1 on the handset! I also adapt each sound file to a volume that is appropriate for a lineside listener. High volume coal shovelling... no thank you! Sound is also less relevant on a layout like LB I suggest.. fast running steam trains on the flat, with the regulator wide open in real life tend to make much of their noise at rail level anyway, and both DC and DCC will give you that. DCC sound comes more into its own when loco’s are taking the strain, moving off, or a slow moving heavy freight on an incline. Some recent sound files are very ‘driveable’ in this regard. Another aspect of DCC sound that is seldom used properly is the whistle - DCC enables you to correctly use the BR standard code of steam whistle signals, an extra layer of prototypical practice that surprisingly few people seem to replicate in model form, is this not just as important as operating signalling... the means by which enginemen communicate back to the signalman. And even with high speed through running, the difference between an A4 chime or A3 whistle at speed can be very evocative and adds emphasis to the operational variety on display. At the end of the day, DCC sound is like most other aspects of our hobby. It has to be done properly. When it is, it can be hugely enjoyable. When it isn’t, which is sadly all too common, it can be really annoying. Phil.

Whilst I agree that the two wire thing is over-stated, wiring DCC is still so much simpler than with analogue control. I have three pairs of buses.. one for the up line, one for the down, and one for the accessories (lighting, signals, point motors etc.). That is just six wires across every baseboard join. All I have to do when adding something, is wire it in to the appropriate bus on the same board. No running long wires round the layout to the control panel and back. And no isolating sections required either! That is the part I like. There are two downsides for me: firstly the fickle nature of chips and their programming, where for some inexplicable reason, sometimes they just play up, and need reprogramming. Not often, but occasionally enough to irritate. And secondly, the need for ‘stay alive’ capacitance particularly with short wheelbase locomotives... it’s a fact that the smaller the locomotive, the greater the need for a stay-alive but the less space you have to install it. Having gone the DCC route, I still have mixed feelings about it and if I was to wind back the clock knowing what I do now, and start all over again I’m not 100% sure if I would go down the DCC road. But then, running a long rake of 16T empties behind my WD 2-8-0 fitted with Locoman’s wonderful 8F sound chip, it is just a sublime experience that takes you to another level. Or a rake of Deltic hauled maroon’s accelerating away, with Biff’s sound file giving just the right amount of thrash. That, for me at least, makes it worthwhile. I only wish there were more good quality sound files around... there are some really duff ones out there too that just grate on the ear. So yes, DCC is more fickle, it can be so much better than analogue, but also much more of a pain! Phil.

And there was me thinking it was something to do with either a close-up camera lens or a 1970’s kit car... There again they do use words differently down under, so who knows???

Very true, there’s no effin’ Duck... I’m liking those Paddington loops btw. Out of interest, how big is your railway room? Would love to have the same space for my own efforts! Phil.

Close, but think Disney...

More than I need, but fewer than I would like.

I’m with Jesse on this one. I enjoy having some Ozzie colloquialisms thrown in from time to time, and I (usually) understand what he is saying! Phil

Funny how things that were humdrum at the time, become something special, years later. I just wish I’d taken more photographs full stop back in the early sixties. But then the image quality of my camera wasn’t great by today’s standards, and with a limited number of exposures on each film roll, we couldn’t snap away like we can in today’s digital, disposeable society. Maybe we should learn from this, and take more pictures of the boring everyday stuff today, for the benefit of the next generation of railway modellers... Phil.

To my mind, the fact that the wish-list poll has picked out the remarkable (such as hush-Hush) rather than the mundane is to be wholly expected. Our model railways, without exception, are fantasy worlds where we can run what we want, when and where we want. When watching the recent and most excellent BRM video of Little Bytham, I was struck by how many times Tony qualified the appearance of stock that wasn’t quite right for the time and place, but it was justifiable with a little more liberal interpretation. And quite right too. The likes of hush-hush top the poll because they are the equivalent of a ‘top cop’ in trainspotting parlance... what a spotter would get most excited about. And when you consider that most railway modellers are not as fastidious as the participants of this particular thread, to me fully explains why the wish list turns out how it does. Maybe the kit manufacturers might look further down the wishlist for future RTR-proof subjects? Phil

PECO are currently marketing three static grass applicators, PSG-1,2 and 3. The 3 I understand, being for smaller detailed areas...but what about the other two? The PSG-1 and 2 seem to be for identical use but the latter is twice the price of the former! What’s the difference, and is it worth the extra cost?

That works out at nearly 70 views per post. I know we don't post every time we check up on this thread's progress, but there must be a lot of lurkers out there too.

I think much of what you refer to as ‘sloppiness’ is inevitable, given that the tolerances necessary in 1:76 scale up to far more than they would be in 12 inches to the foot. Also, the focal length of the lens you use when photographing can be very cruel in some situations, both model and full scale. There was an interesting discussion in last weeks ‘Great Model Railways Challenge’ about modelling water, and how it was impossible to get real water to look right because it’s movement properties do not scale down, so any waves and ripples are wholly unrealistic. The same is probably true of other wave-like movement, such as undulations and oscillations that equally do not scale down, and just don’t look right when observed in 1:76. This may be down to the properties of the materials themselves, as much as the issue of tolerances. So don’t beat yourself up if your fastidious modelling doesn’t perform like the real thing, you can’t warp the laws of physics! Phil.

It was at Warley a year ago... looked lovely and I pre-ordered having seen it. I can wait, but not without disappointment.

I think the answer to your question is ‘it depends’. Bullhead track was still being laid new in the 1950’s although flat bottomed was rapidly becoming the norm. After then, flat bottomed was normally used when the track needed replacing, though if the sleepers and chairs still had plenty of life in them, just the (bullhead) rail would be replaced as this was cheaper and still gave perfectly serviceable track. A similar approach was often taken with pointwork... if the turnouts were in good condition, they would be retained. Inevitably, it was the lighter used lines, such as secondary routes, branch lines, mineral lines and sidings that would have retained the bullhead rail for longer, certainly well into and beyond the mid 80’s in many places. Your best approach for the area you are modelling is to scour photographs of the prototype around that time and scrutinise the trackwork. That’s the only way you will get a definitive answer. As an aside, new bullhead rail is still manufactured and supplied in the UK... some thirty years after the mid-1980’s. Phil

Surely, American is merely a dialect: American English?

The equalised timbering doesn't bother me at all. It is prototypical for some locations but not for others, and it is unreasonable to expect PECO/stockists to manufacture/stock both. When laid, and with trains running, do I find myself dwelling on the sleeper orientation? Not a jot. It looks great. And if it is that big an issue, why not just build your own from C&L components? No-one is forcing people to use these turnouts. Phil

Interestingly on the subject of gauge, the EMGS have announced today that they have commissioned Peco to produce some RTR EM track work for them, comprising flexible bullhead track and LH/RH points to B6 geometry (rather than existing PECO norms). Details on their website. Society announces ready to lay EM gauge track Interesting that the products appear to be being marketed exclusively through EMGS. Phil.

Absolutely. There should be a part early on in the programme where the pre-builds are revealed to the viewers, and the judges have the occasion to pass judgement on what complies with the rules or not (and therefore what can be used) and for this decision to be made BEFORE the build gets under way, to make it fair for all the teams.